Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[Gae]

Wow, I hate to even bring this into the discussion, but is this THE attorney Stephen Jones, from the Oklahoma City bombing trial? If I'm finding the right Stephen Jones, it does appear to be him.

Yeah, it's him.

 

[Sjöberg]

I agree, she is the only one of the four that looks close to normal.

I think the facial expressions of people on the photos are much more dependent on the talks and vibes they had during the 5-15 minutes immediately before the photo was taken than on their philosophical feelings about their guilt. And I don't think any of them is capable of having any emotions about their guilt, only about getting caught.

DK all the technical aspects of Stun Guns but my general understanding is that if enough electrical current is delivered to a human or animal that the heart effectively stops beating.

Interesting possibility. Not sure if I think it's very likely that this was their chosen method for killing, however, it would be a CoD that's hard to determine and totally impossible to determine once the remains have been in the grave for long enough. Could also be possibly thought of as less traceable than guns or even knives.

 

[Bigditch]

Yeah, it's him.

Total stunner that interview.

 

[Gae]

Total stunner that interview.

Sure is.

 

[charmingbetsy]

Plus, Cora has perhaps seen that all that "all for one and one for all" talk of the group was just talk. They get arrested and those with money will hire their own attorneys. She, however, will be left to a public defender.

The Oklahoma Indigent Defense System has a special division of public defenders who work on capital cases. If the death penalty is sought, Cora will most likely not be represented by any ol' PD from Texas County. She's probably going to get a highly skilled and experienced PD brought in from Norman or Tulsa. If she doesn't get an attorney from the OIDS capital crime division, OIDS will hire a private attorney for her who has met certain requirements for defending death penalty cases.

IMO, Cora will be not be at a legal disadvantage with an OIDS capital crime PD. On the other hand, the other three will need to cough up BIG $$$$ retainers and pay big bills to get well-qualifed attorneys to drive 5-6 hours out to the middle of nowhere to represent them.

 

[windrower]

Also, it was sufficiently specific and believable that it was passed on to the immediate family of the victims, one of whom inappropriately leaked on her FB that TA had confessed and both women were dead.
This was the day of the arrests, remains had not yet been found.

JMO

BBM

Why do you say inappropriately? She may have had permission, if she even needed it.

One of my friends sent a text out to our church text group that she had received from one of Jilian’s family members on Saturday, April 13, stating the same information: warrants and arrests, Tifany confessed she killed them, searching for bodies.

Of course, none of us were reposting that info on social media; it wasn’t our story to tell, at least at that time.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I don't see anything in her face except defiance and anger. She looks mad.
Both Cole & TA seem to have a look that is almost daring anyone to think they will actually be found guilty because they are too special/smart/important/whatever to end up convicted & in prison. TC is the only one who looks at all worried, but even with him I don't see remorse. It will be very interesting to see how he appears at his next court date and as the case moves forward.

I agree on Cora . Defiance.
But it is quite interesting how we all see the 4 sooo differently
I actually 'see' TA as exhausted, and glad the first part is over. But expect her to rally like a lion in the future.

 

[Gae]

I agree on Cora . Defiance.
But it is quite interesting how we all see the 4 sooo differently
I actually 'see' TA as exhausted, and glad the first part is over. But expect her to rally like a lion in the future.

That's how I see them. Cora looks angry and defiant. Tifany looks exhausted but ready to face the music.

 

[Chimera]

The documents go on to say the Twombly's have a history of violent interactions and they pose a grave danger to witnesses and community members.
https://www.kake.com/story/50688029...-being-responsible-for-death-of-2-kansas-moms

I am curious about the violent previous interactions mentioned here.

Bbm.
Likewise !

Maybe now people can start to come forward ?
I'm sorry for any innocent people who may have run afoul of them.
Omo.

 

[Cool Cats]

Bodies of 2 women killed in Oklahoma were buried on land leased by 1 of the 4 suspects, court documents say

The bodies of two women who were slain in rural Oklahoma last month were buried in a cattle pasture leased by one of the four suspects – all of whom are accused of plotting the victims’ deaths amid a bitter custody battle, according to court documents.

news.yahoo.com

​

 

[Error505]

Investigators needed probable cause to take Tifany Adams' cell phone. Was that April 1, two days after the bloody scene was discovered?

Have we seen the affidavit warrant for Tifany's phone? I'm curious. Was probable cause that Veronica Tifany said she spoke to Veronica at 9 a.m., alleging that Veronica cancelled the visit? Was it because Person 5 was traumatized by shattered car windows, battered women blood pools, and a broken hammer ... so he got a lawyer and reported the murders with immunity? What triggered the warrant to seize Tifany's phone so soon after the murders and before she had a chance to erase history.

My thinking on the warrant for Tifany’s was to verify the conversation she “said” she had with VB. With 2 women missing at the time, bloody crime scene, that supposed convo would have been enough to approve a warrant. MOO

 

[Trublue21]

Wow, I hate to even bring this into the discussion, but is this THE attorney Stephen Jones, from the Oklahoma City bombing trial? If I'm finding the right Stephen Jones, it does appear to be him.

LE having snipers on the roof makes sense….apparently they know exactly who they’re dealing with. Very interesting.

 

[ClearAhead]

THANK YOU for bringing this up. Context is HUGE here. Some examples from my own experience: So the farming community I live in mostly consists of people who value a peaceful, law-abiding life. (Or at least giving off that appearance.) Public conversations and interactions are generally quiet and pleasant. Once a man, from what I knew to be a much rougher community, bought a local business here for one of his sons to run. But the local people were so horrified by the new owner's crass behavior and speach that they would hardly do business with him. He in turn had no idea what he was doing wrong because everyone talked that way at home.

In another part of the US where I temporarily lived, I myself was horrified at how I heard people talk to each other, especially their children. I heard one lady in Walmart repeatedly detail the beatings the child would get when she got home, and the last thing I heard her say was "I'm just gonna kill you after we leave!" None of the other shoppers (or her child) even turned their head. I soon realized that's how they all talked there. But back home, that woman likely would've had more than one person call LE on her!

So I do think it's highly likely that everyone around TA was long used to her tossing revenge/death threats around and nobody thought she'd actually do it.

Yes it seems everyone around TA was long used to her tossing revenge/death threats but nobody thought she was serious.

BBM

Kansas women killings: Court documents detail alleged murder-kidnapping motive

Texas County Sheriff’s Department (NEW YORK) — In the wake of the disappearance and killing of two women from Kansas, newly released court documents detail, according to prosecutors, the motive and evidence behind the alleged murder-kidnapping. On

www.ksro.com

“The custody battle between Butler and Rickman began in February 2019, according to the documents.

Previous child custody case recordings were obtained by investigators, in which Rickman allegedly discussed death threats made by his mother and her boyfriend, fellow suspect Tad Cullum, with legal representatives.”

 

[Error505]

@otto -- a couple of corrections on the timing here:

First, the Appellate brief by WR was filed May 2021, not August 2022, and this wasn't a sworn custody affidavit but IMO, a hit piece against VB drafted by team WR in an attempt to gain sole custody of the children.
VB was time barred from responding to the brief by WR, and even though the Court made its decision (August 5, 2022) on WR's brief only, the Court was not swayed by the allegations contained in the brief to remove the children from VB or place any restrictions on VB's custody but instead ruled the parents should share custody of the children. Previously, the trial court awarded the Mother sole, legal custody and the Father, standard visitation (May 2019).

We also know that even after the trial Court ruled on standard visitation for the Father, the parents were essentially enjoying shared physical custody of the children every other week from summer 2019 until VR and the children were evicted from property owned by the paternal grandmother-- causing VB to begin moving around.

IMO, I think this period of instability with housing and work by VB was all part of the grand plan by the puppet master (i.e., TA) where WR would have a basis to appeal the trial courts decision-- all in the hope that WR would obtain sole legal custody of the children.

What's also clear is this action to appeal the trial court's decision was contrary to WR's testimony during the 2019 custody trial where WR testified that in the best interest of his children, he would be agreeable to shared custody 50/50.
View attachment 498129
Emergency Orders by WR for physical custody came at the end of 2022 following allegations against VB's minor age family member. However, these court Motions, exchanges, and subsequent intervention Motions by TA can't be discussed since this period remains under seal.

Similar to the acknowledgement by the Appellate Court, I think the parents were young, immature, and struggled but were both finding their way to be fit, loving, and devoted parents to their children.

IMO, I don't think it was was ever WR's idea to remove the children from VB. I also don't think he ever wanted to be a fulltime custodial parent. I think WR was a pawn used by TA. What's his was hers, and this was not negotiable.

<modsnip: sleuthing someone not named a POI>

Appellate Custody Records

Thank you @Seattle1 Great summary!

Tifany’s attorney who handled the custody case regarding the grchildren was Stephen Jones, infamous for having represented Timothy McVeigh, OKC bomber. What chance does a young country girl, with limited finances, stand when it comes to fighting a custody battle with an attorney of his notoriety? Very slim chances of prevailing, and expensive even pursuing. I’ve got to really hand it to that young mom, she tried hard and didn’t give up. I’m sure TA thought she would give up! Here’s an interview Chris Cuomo did with Stephen Jones on Wednesday of this week.
Kansas moms case: Former attorney of arrested grandma was 'shocked' | Cuomo

via @YouTube

 

[ClearAhead]

My thinking on the warrant for Tifany’s was to verify the conversation she “said” she had with VB. With 2 women missing at the time, bloody crime scene, that supposed convo would have been enough to approve a warrant. MOO

Yes I agree, a warrant would’ve been required to verify TA’s initial explanation about why she wasn’t waiting at Four Corners to hand over the children. It probably revealed the first of her blunderous lies. I really doubt she was at home when this call was made and IMO she called VB (not the other way around) to tell her to come by herself. Other reports indicate VB was already in her way to pick up JK when this phonecall occurred.

Kansas women killings: Court documents detail alleged murder-kidnapping motive

Texas County Sheriff’s Department (NEW YORK) — In the wake of the disappearance and killing of two women from Kansas, newly released court documents detail, according to prosecutors, the motive and evidence behind the alleged murder-kidnapping. On

www.ksro.com

“Investigators report that Adams claimed she was at home when Butler called to cancel the custody exchange at 9:00 a.m., local time.”

 

[Eli9]

As the recent warrant has been returned keep an eye out for any new news stories. I don't think it will contain any new information with respect to the murders but I still want to read it.

 

[ifindedout]

Thank you @Seattle1 Great summary!

Tifany’s attorney who handled the custody case regarding the grchildren was Stephen Jones, infamous for having represented Timothy McVeigh, OKC bomber. What chance does a young country girl, with limited finances, stand when it comes to fighting a custody battle with an attorney of his notoriety? Very slim chances of prevailing, and expensive even pursuing. I’ve got to really hand it to that young mom, she tried hard and didn’t give up. I’m sure TA thought she would give up! Here’s an interview Chris Cuomo did with Stephen Jones on Wednesday of this week.
Kansas moms case: Former attorney of arrested grandma was 'shocked' | Cuomo

via @YouTube

Stephen Jones (attorney) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Jo in Calif]

Jilian Delores (Dalbey) Kelley Obituary 2024 - Robson Funeral Home

View Jilian Delores (Dalbey) Kelley's obituary, send flowers, find service dates, and sign the guestbook.

www.robsonfuneralhome.com

 

[kaen]

Why would they bother with an informant on a case in which no one seems to have given the concerns of the mother the slightest credence in the first place? If there is some connection to LE here, I doubt it had anything to do with protecting VB.

Agreed that if he was an informant it was probably in regards to something else. It is interesting the interviewing by the FBI and release.

I have wondered if he knew of the plan but was cut out by the other four. Given his age and their couple connections, it seems odd that he would be in the thick of it.

I am wondering if we will ever know.

ETA: Given TA's lawyer and his history of who he has defended, I am thinking that we might be in for a wold ride when it comes to the actions of these 4 AND other members of the group. Seems like we might be on the path of some terroristic plans or acts.

 

[Herat]

Thank you @Seattle1 Great summary!

Tifany’s attorney who handled the custody case regarding the grchildren was Stephen Jones, infamous for having represented Timothy McVeigh, OKC bomber. What chance does a young country girl, with limited finances, stand when it comes to fighting a custody battle with an attorney of his notoriety? Very slim chances of prevailing, and expensive even pursuing. I’ve got to really hand it to that young mom, she tried hard and didn’t give up. I’m sure TA thought she would give up! Here’s an interview Chris Cuomo did with Stephen Jones on Wednesday of this week.
Kansas moms case: Former attorney of arrested grandma was 'shocked' | Cuomo

via @YouTube

I think we are seeing TA's defense take shape in that interview. TA certainly has tried to set up a poisonous case against VB.

I assume Stephen Jones will not be TA's defense attorney.