Omaha Double Murder #2

[thesaint]

First of all, I have wondered why the perp arrived at the Hunter home while both Tom and Shirlee were present. What is the simplest explanation?

I think it was simply to ensure gaining access to the Hunter residence.

Hmm, I'm not sure if you're saying that gaining access to something in the home (other than the murder victims) was the point or if it was just to gain access to commit the murders? Because if there was some inanimate object the killer coveted in the home, there's no need to heighten the crime and the concomitant investigation (or to even have a crime reported) by murdering 2 people just to commit simple burglary.

The killer (or burglar under this theory) would just enter the home when it was vacant and do his business. Alarm systems, especially when grafted on to older homes, are child's play (relatively speaking) to circumvent.


And if the coveted items were on one of the computers in the home, a thief wouldn't even need to enter the home to gain access--simply attach a root kit trojan to an email to Tom (or send him a disc containing it etc, etc).

I think the purpose of entering the home was to commit murder. The question is why?

 

[thesaint]

[SIZE=+1]The Mafiya deals in prostitution, extortion, and drug-trafficking in the United States, but on a much smaller scale than many of their competitor

http://www.taipanonline.com/archive/0197/0197_crime.html

[/SIZE]

I've heard about these Vietnamese gangs before, especially around DC/Northern Virginia. They typically target other Vietnamese/SE Asians. And they always do it for the money.

 

[thesaint]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20091025/NEWS01/710259859[/url] I question if the Hunter home was being case in the days preceding the murders.

Well, if the Hunter home were being cased, it wasn't by the killer (presumably):

"The Honda CR-V was gray. Or maybe silver. Around 3:20 p.m. it was observed starting and stopping along the street, as if the driver were searching for an address. "

http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=51

which if the police do have evidence of the Hunter home being cased and then a separate individual does the actual murders, that fairly smacks of aprofessional job. the killer was given details and simply carried out someone else's plan/orders.

BUT then why does Shirlee or Tom allow him into the home?

 

[thesaint]

Why is Shirlee's family the ONLY one offering a reward for information leading to the capture and conviction of this killer:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20091025/NEWS01/710259859

?

$50K--which sum the Shermans doubled the reward to--likely would be about month's salary for the double doctor income Hunters. And yet they aren't offering any reward?

Forgive me if this seems callous (esp any members of the Hunter family who might see this), but I believe a guiding principle of web sleuths is to explore all possibilities in as dispassionate a manner as possible: have the police cleared all of the older brothers? Or has that avenue been covered here?

That almost generational distance in age between older and younger siblings can lead to all manner of sibling rivalry nonsense. Especially if it seems the younger sibling is being given luxuries/opportunities the parents were unable to provide the older brothers when they were young (e.g., trips to Scotland).

From a logistics standpoint, Tom (perhaps even Shirlee) being told by an older brother that someone is stopping by, please talk to him or get this item from him would disarm both Tom and Shirlee to "stranger danger" and have them at ease for the killer to enter the home etc.

 

[omaha]

Why is Shirlee's family the ONLY one offering a reward for information leading to the capture and conviction of this killer:

http://www.omaha.com/article/20091025/NEWS01/710259859

?

$50K--which sum the Shermans doubled the reward to--likely would be about month's salary for the double doctor income Hunters. And yet they aren't offering any reward?

Forgive me if this seems callous (esp any members of the Hunter family who might see this), but I believe a guiding principle of web sleuths is to explore all possibilities in as dispassionate a manner as possible: have the police cleared all of the older brothers? Or has that avenue been covered here?

That almost generational distance in age between older and younger siblings can lead to all manner of sibling rivalry nonsense. Especially if it seems the younger sibling is being given luxuries/opportunities the parents were unable to provide the older brothers when they were young (e.g., trips to Scotland).

From a logistics standpoint, Tom (perhaps even Shirlee) being told by an older brother that someone is stopping by, please talk to him or get this item from him would disarm both Tom and Shirlee to "stranger danger" and have them at ease for the killer to enter the home etc.

I think this is really interesting, and we should do some digging:

1. Someone told either Tom or Shirlee that a person was coming… told by whom? The Hunter family? Brothers or Parents. Shirlee's friends or colleagues. Would not have been hard to find the address for Hunters online, but much harder to target her there unless she had personally given the address to someone. That makes me wonder about her being the target at all.

2. The reward. My understanding is that the reward was half put up by "anonymous" donors, and half by Shirlee's family. Note that this is the Crimestoppers reward program, not the Police or Families. The family or families contribute to the Crimestoppers fund. Who were those anonymous donors. Would a reward really help if it was a hired killer? If it was some disgruntled medical professional or student? I guess it would if it were drug related, but does anyone believe that this was drug related? Perhaps drugs at Tom's school? Or with Shirlee? Don't quite fit for me, but you never know.

3. We haven't heard much about the clearing of anyone, unfortunately. I personally would like to hear more about the immediate family and those connections. Obviously the Police probably went there first, but perhaps it's taking longer to clear the immediate family. But two years?

Just my two cents.

 

[omaha]

Well, if the Hunter home were being cased, it wasn't by the killer (presumably):

"The Honda CR-V was gray. Or maybe silver. Around 3:20 p.m. it was observed starting and stopping along the street, as if the driver were searching for an address. "

http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=51

which if the police do have evidence of the Hunter home being cased and then a separate individual does the actual murders, that fairly smacks of aprofessional job. the killer was given details and simply carried out someone else's plan/orders.

BUT then why does Shirlee or Tom allow him into the home?

Snick, correct me if I'm wrong, but my son mentioned that in early media reports, there were mentionings of a possibility of multiple suspects? Was that a discrepency, or is there a possibility of more than one killer or a killer and accomplice. I couldn't find the news articles mentioning this. Maybe it was just the forum.

 

[omaha]

Hmm, I'm not sure if you're saying that gaining access to something in the home (other than the murder victims) was the point or if it was just to gain access to commit the murders? Because if there was some inanimate object the killer coveted in the home, there's no need to heighten the crime and the concomitant investigation (or to even have a crime reported) by murdering 2 people just to commit simple burglary.

The killer (or burglar under this theory) would just enter the home when it was vacant and do his business. Alarm systems, especially when grafted on to older homes, are child's play (relatively speaking) to circumvent.


And if the coveted items were on one of the computers in the home, a thief wouldn't even need to enter the home to gain access--simply attach a root kit trojan to an email to Tom (or send him a disc containing it etc, etc).

I think the purpose of entering the home was to commit murder. The question is why?

This got me thinking. Could something have been taken without anyone at all noticing? What if it the killer came there for information or something obscure. Maybe information from Tom or Shirlee. Maybe an object in the house that no one would miss? Sorry, lot of what ifs. This case is really bugging me.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Wow! thesaint, Omaha, you have brought up some good questions and points to ponder.

We have to be careful investigating family members unless they are neamed as a POI. You may link to a FB or MS page but only quote a questionable comment in your post. Ex. In another case I follow many of the families/players FB is linked with a comment like, "The comment that is second from the bottom on *advertiser censored*'s FB page disturbs me." This is the best way I understand it anyway but a mod can correct me if I am wrong.

If there is a POI named then the person can be sleuthed and links to mug shots, criminal history, etc. are permitted since it is a matter of public record.

Many times sleuths will post RSO's who live close to the victim in child abduction cases and this is ok because it is public record.

If it is a rumor then it must be clearly stated in the post that it is a RUMOR.

Just be careful and when in doubt, refer to a mod or WS TOS before posting.

I don't wish to see anyone get a TO while we sleuth this case. We need all of your contributions. Thanks for all you folks do to keep this case from being forgotten.

wm

 

[waltzingmatilda]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36784047/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Oh I meant to post this link because it made me think of this case and I'll tell you why.
The perp in this article was angry he had been terminated from his position in 2008. He carried this grudge for nearly 2 years before killing this doctor. The point is.....anyone who was employeed or schooled at Creighton who was reprimanded or terminated leading up to these murders falls under a veil of suspicion, IMO. The difficult thing regarding our sleuthing this angle is that it would have been addressed by HR at Creighton and those records are not publicly available.

Either of the doctors could have faced a difficult decision re a student or collegue in prior years and it was handled in house and eveyone moved on. Gosh with as many students, patients, collegues that they have interacted with over the years, it could be someone who they haven't even given a second thought about harboring a grudge that could lead to Tom & Shirlee's murders. The perp could have felt so angry and slighted that his 'opportunity' was snatched away that he decided to take something precious away from one of the doctors.

However, my thinking is that the perp was after something in the Hunter home and 'used' Tom as a way to retrieve it. Whatever it was, was important enough to risk committting double murder. All JMO.

wm

 

[SnowAngels]

I've heard about these Vietnamese gangs before, especially around DC/Northern Virginia. They typically target other Vietnamese/SE Asians. And they always do it for the money.

Read further. I think Knox is referencing to the second article about the Russian Mafia.

 

[Snick1946]

There's been so much posted in the past day or so- I will respond to just a couple things for now, maybe more later.
My understanding is that Tom was found in the Dining Room. Dr Hunter came home that day and entered as usual through the kitchen. He saw Shirlee's body in the hallway while standing hanging up his coat in the kitchen. He said he then ran downstairs and into the back yard to try to see if Tom was there, then found him in the DR. There was something earlier about Tom having a sandwich that was found half eaten, unclear if on the DR table or in the kitchen.
My best guess from what I know is that Tom may have let this guy in. This suggests he knew him or had some contact prior. The perp may have posed on line as someone who had something to sell Tom. One chilling possibility- could it have been someone from his school? A teacher or possibly someone he knew from his father's job?
Those of you new to this case may want to browse the thread about it on the Forensic Astrology board. A theory there is that there were at least two persons involved, one 'mastermind' and the actual killer. Also some indication that a woman may have been tied in somehow.
More later.

 

[omaha]

There's been so much posted in the past day or so- I will respond to just a couple things for now, maybe more later.
My understanding is that Tom was found in the Dining Room. Dr Hunter came home that day and entered as usual through the kitchen. He saw Shirlee's body in the hallway while standing hanging up his coat in the kitchen. He said he then ran downstairs and into the back yard to try to see if Tom was there, then found him in the DR. There was something earlier about Tom having a sandwich that was found half eaten, unclear if on the DR table or in the kitchen.
My best guess from what I know is that Tom may have let this guy in. This suggests he knew him or had some contact prior. The perp may have posed on line as someone who had something to sell Tom. One chilling possibility- could it have been someone from his school? A teacher or possibly someone he knew from his father's job?
Those of you new to this case may want to browse the thread about it on the Forensic Astrology board. A theory there is that there were at least two persons involved, one 'mastermind' and the actual killer. Also some indication that a woman may have been tied in somehow.
More later.

Snick,

I think you know this case better than anyone. Can you help me find two links?

1. Referencing the sandwich and money in the purse. Was this the Year 1 anniversary article? Wonder if the sandwich was Shirlee's or Tom's. Wonder which anecdotes have been Police confirmed and which have been "reported" or rumored. Makes me want to review the interviews with the lead dectectives. We should start a list, and keep it up to date.

2. Referencing who was killed first / who answered the door. For some reason I recall watching one of the local television stories and hearing a witness say they thought they saw someone answer the door. But maybe I'm mistaken thinking they thought it was Shirlee. Maybe she opened it and didn't let them in, and they went to the side door? Was there a reference to who was killed first?

Looking for direct links, since it's getting murky in my mind what came from our discussion and what came from Police / witnesses.

Thanks, and sorry if it's been answered before.

 

[omaha]

There's been so much posted in the past day or so- I will respond to just a couple things for now, maybe more later.
My understanding is that Tom was found in the Dining Room. Dr Hunter came home that day and entered as usual through the kitchen. He saw Shirlee's body in the hallway while standing hanging up his coat in the kitchen. He said he then ran downstairs and into the back yard to try to see if Tom was there, then found him in the DR. There was something earlier about Tom having a sandwich that was found half eaten, unclear if on the DR table or in the kitchen.
My best guess from what I know is that Tom may have let this guy in. This suggests he knew him or had some contact prior. The perp may have posed on line as someone who had something to sell Tom. One chilling possibility- could it have been someone from his school? A teacher or possibly someone he knew from his father's job?
Those of you new to this case may want to browse the thread about it on the Forensic Astrology board. A theory there is that there were at least two persons involved, one 'mastermind' and the actual killer. Also some indication that a woman may have been tied in somehow.
More later.

Another thing to note is that I've heard several conflicting "well-sourced" rumors. So that goes to the point that perhaps we can create a running list of things that have been confirmed by a reliable source, witness, families, etc. I don't mean to say that they aren't well source, I mean to say, we should document everything we can for reference.

Also, I noticed there has been some contradicting media comments and comments in general. I know this is easy for us to read over, considering our opinions on the motive can change day to day, but I'm more interested in the witness, family and investigator comments. It would behoove all of us interested in the case to document contradictions. It may lead us in a whole nother direction, or indicate people of interest? Or am I reading too much into it?

 

[omaha]

Another thing that was just brought up, and one I have asked about in private. But what about Tom's friends. Was there any weird behavior of them around the time? Often kids that age can be around or friends with teenagers. Perhaps brothers of friends. It would have been trivial to find his address. What about teachers. I know we've asked about this before, but have there been any teachers fired or have any teachers quit from his school since the incident? I think the Astrology thread's assumption of an out-of-towner is probably right, however.

 

[omaha]

Snick,

What's the latest on that CSI guy who was convicted? Last I saw on the news he was appealing. Did he work on this case? The Omaha World Herald and local news channels seem to be really terrible about long-running stories of interest.

Thinking of the top of my head.

 

[Snick1946]

Snick,

What's the latest on that CSI guy who was convicted? Last I saw on the news he was appealing. Did he work on this case? The Omaha World Herald and local news channels seem to be really terrible about long-running stories of interest.

Thinking of the top of my head.

So far as I have been able to learn, Kofed was not involved in this case. Maybe someone who knows more than I can tell us for sure?
I have also wondered about Tom's school and any connection there. Very early in the original thread there was discussion about the perp possibly being a teacher or school employee that feared Tom reporting some improper relationship. There also was an idea of an angry parent of another kid at his school who dropped by to confront Tom about something and things got out of control.
Omaha, I will see if I can provide the thread with the link you asked for- give me a day or so.

 

[Snick1946]

The whole thing about the sandwich came about because I had mentioned this following a discussion of the case with someone who should know some of these things. The story was that detectives found evidence that someone had made a sandwich in the kitchen that Tom had with him when the perp came calling. I do not know if it was left in the basement or on the kitchen counter or DR table. The discussion on this was focused on possibly seeing if that may provide a clue as to whether he came up from the basement in response to a summons from Shirlee or if he was already upstairs eating.

Most of us lean to Tom being taken down first with Shirlee following. It'd be interesting to know if she ever fell into the habit of leaving the back door unlatched- we used to have a cleaner who did that as she took frequent smoke breaks. Any family members lurking here who know if she smoked?

So far as I know, there has never been any conclusive visual evidence from anyone that the perp was admitted to the house. The briefcase man was seen stopping and starting in his car, then apparently parked a few doors down and proceeded to walk to the house across a couple yards. But, no one apparently stuck around to see him knocking or being let in. For all we know he may not have had anything to do with the killings- the composite resembles an Hispanic male. I've mentioned previously that he could well have been an innocent person on an unknown errand and after the picture came out was fearful to come forward- especially if not here legally.

 

[colette]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36784047/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Oh I meant to post this link because it made me think of this case and I'll tell you why.
The perp in this article was angry he had been terminated from his position in 2008. He carried this grudge for nearly 2 years before killing this doctor. The point is.....anyone who was employeed or schooled at Creighton who was reprimanded or terminated leading up to these murders falls under a veil of suspicion, IMO. The difficult thing regarding our sleuthing this angle is that it would have been addressed by HR at Creighton and those records are not publicly available.

Either of the doctors could have faced a difficult decision re a student or collegue in prior years and it was handled in house and eveyone moved on. Gosh with as many students, patients, collegues that they have interacted with over the years, it could be someone who they haven't even given a second thought about harboring a grudge that could lead to Tom & Shirlee's murders. The perp could have felt so angry and slighted that his 'opportunity' was snatched away that he decided to take something precious away from one of the doctors.

However, my thinking is that the perp was after something in the Hunter home and 'used' Tom as a way to retrieve it. Whatever it was, was important enough to risk committting double murder. All JMO.

wm

When I heard about this grudge case I immediately thought of Tom & Shirlee's murder. It is similiar to the gurdge case from Chicago the Dr Cornbleet murder too. Also either Tom or Shirlee could have answered the door and the guy could have conned or even burst into the home right then.

 

[omaha]

The whole thing about the sandwich came about because I had mentioned this following a discussion of the case with someone who should know some of these things. The story was that detectives found evidence that someone had made a sandwich in the kitchen that Tom had with him when the perp came calling. I do not know if it was left in the basement or on the kitchen counter or DR table. The discussion on this was focused on possibly seeing if that may provide a clue as to whether he came up from the basement in response to a summons from Shirlee or if he was already upstairs eating.

Most of us lean to Tom being taken down first with Shirlee following. It'd be interesting to know if she ever fell into the habit of leaving the back door unlatched- we used to have a cleaner who did that as she took frequent smoke breaks. Any family members lurking here who know if she smoked?

So far as I know, there has never been any conclusive visual evidence from anyone that the perp was admitted to the house. The briefcase man was seen stopping and starting in his car, then apparently parked a few doors down and proceeded to walk to the house across a couple yards. But, no one apparently stuck around to see him knocking or being let in. For all we know he may not have had anything to do with the killings- the composite resembles an Hispanic male. I've mentioned previously that he could well have been an innocent person on an unknown errand and after the picture came out was fearful to come forward- especially if not here legally.

Snick,

I know a lot of my neighbors leave the back door unlocked in the afternoon, evening. Especially if someone is home.

Something I didn't think of. What if she was out in the back yard when the person of interest came around the corner? Maybe she then ran inside?

 

[Snick1946]

I did find a link to an early WOWT news story that mentions money being left in Shirlee's purse:

http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/16658516.html

The same article references eyewittnesses seeing Thomas arriving home at the usual time, etc. So this appears to be a neighborhood where people look out for one another. Will see if I can come up with anything else to address your questions.

The FBI has been involved in this case. Wouldn't it be interesting to know if a profiler was brought in and if so what he/she came up with? Much would depend on crime scene details and those are a closed book for those of us outside the investigation. Still it might be interesting to brainstorm in this area. My contribution would be that this perp was very intelligent and purposeful in accomplishing what he did and of course in geting away with it up to now. He probably is feeling elated by now and perhaps is letting his guard down. My feeling is that he has followed news stories on this investigation and maybe even has been lurking on this board, but not probably posting.

For that matter, it'd be interesting to know if the Omaha police detectives in this case are following this board. I have heard rumors to that effect from time to time. If so I am sure some of the ideas posted especially earlier, may have been seen as way off by them.