Once Again

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Toth
>How did know the amount of John's bonus?
He may not have. Even if the ransom amount IS related to the bonus, he could have found that information inside the home.

>How did he know the alarm wasn't on , or wouldn't be set when they arrived home?
Basement windows in older homes in the area are rarely alarmed. Certainly if no cops showed up within a half hour, he was safe.

>How did he know the dog was no longer around?
He may not have known there was ever a dog. He sure didn't see or hear one.

>How did he know the Ramseys wouldn't stop at the airport and return home with JAR, Melinda, and a host of other family members to spend the holidays?
..He may not have known this.

>How did he know how to immitate Patsy handwriting?
I don't think he did imitate Patsy's handwriting.

>How did he know JonBenet liked, and would eat, Pineapple?
I doubt he knew or cared what she liked and I sure don't think he fed her any pineapple.

>How did he know one of the parents wouldn't stay up until the wee hours of the night packing for their trip?
He didn't.

>How did he know he could walk up to, and away from, the Ramsey house, without a single person in the neighborhood seeing him--on a night when virtually everyone stays up late and nobody has to get up for work in the morning?
Somebody may indeed have seen him as he approached the house; someone may have seen him leave too... BPD should have canvassed the neighborhood. Didn't.

Simple answer:

... because "HE" is a "SHE" ... and "SHE" IS THE "MOM!" IMHO... it's Patsy (plain & simple)!.

 

[SisterSocks]

Originally posted by Barbara
No. We're talking about John and Patsy.

"....If that happned to my daughter, I would certainly call a friend, they wouldn't come inside, but I would need to talk to someone."


Nobody took issue with calling the police. I don't think anyone would take too much issue with calling A friend to talk to IF you have a cell phone.

Let me ask you AJT:

Would you call ALL your friends and have them ALL come over?

Yes Barb, I agree I would HAVE CALLED MY BEST FRIENDS AND FAMILY

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[shamu]

Really? No matter that there were consequ-- oops! I forgot. They Ramseys didn't read the note. Why read a note when they could be calling their friends. Just because it was the only link to their daughter. Big deal. Why not call friends. Why read a note.

 

[Toth]

Read the first few lines of the note and madly check her room then call 911 seems reasonable, the rest sure seems in keeping with their character and prior behavior patterns. Might not be what you would do under the circumstances though.

 

[Show Me]

Originally posted by Toth
Read the first few lines of the note and madly check her room then call 911 seems reasonable, the rest sure seems in keeping with their character and prior behavior patterns. Might not be what you would do under the circumstances though.

Keeping with their character and prior behavior patterns....you may have something there Toth.....after all Patsy's comfort level IS more important to her than JonBenet's life.

And, of course, John agreed 'cause he didn't try to stop Patsy from calling half the town of Boulder over.

SURELY the kidnapper wasn't SERIOUSLY intent on beheading JonBenet if he saw other people showing up at the Ramsey house.....nah...even if he did warn the Ramseys they were being monitored....he wouldn't really kill her.

I don't know how anyone can expect Patsy to stay on the line with the 911 operator...when she had friends to call over. Heck Patsy didn't even have time to inform the police to be discrete!

 

[why_nutt]

Originally posted by Toth
Read the first few lines of the note and madly check her room then call 911 seems reasonable, the rest sure seems in keeping with their character and prior behavior patterns. Might not be what you would do under the circumstances though.

No, Patsy's behavior in particular was unlike any behavior she had ever demonstrated prior to that morning, so you cannot say it was in keeping with her character or prior behavior patterns. Not one of her friends has ever said that Patsy's first reaction in prior years to extreme stress (such as Beth's death or her own cancer diagnosis) was to literally collapse and curl into a fetal position, praying and crying so hysterically she needed others to assist her. Let us take her reaction to her cancer. Did she start popping Valium when she glanced at her own medical records? No, she did not. Instead, she began to examine them in detail, so much detail, in fact, that she became privy to a private note within, written from one doctor to another, describing her cancer as having metastasized. Was her reaction to that news to collapse? No, it was to cannily remove the note, towards the strategic goal of forcing the next doctor in the chain to evaluate the X-rays independent of any leading diagnoses written by previous physicians. This is Patsy's character, this is an example of what her behavior should have naturally been on the morning of December 26th. That her behavior was something so unprecedented in her life speaks to me more of a need to literally become an actress in her own life, if she wanted to get away with responsibility for her daughter's murder. If Patsy is innocent, then the burden is on her defenders and herself to explain why she behaved as she had never done before, even though she had been under a far worse stress when her own life was threatened.

(I have collected enough anecdotal evidence to conclude that those who have come forth to say Patsy's behavior was not unlike their own, have also failed to note that they never follow up by saying, "And I never behaved like that before, or have behaved like that since even under similar circumstances.")

 

[lannie]

Why_nut, what a insightful piece, yes in there own words,they tell us about them selfs, in all the books & interviews, know wonder Fleet white saw through them ,he knew the true people althougt now he is (F. W. is not worth a flip ,unless he is saveing information for the trial ,that will NEVER ,take place,unless the preisident ,steps in ,LOL,
No they did not tackle this as they have other things in there lives, you would think John would be filled with so much anger at what someone had done to his little girl & family he would be beside him self, not wanted to run as soon as he could ,trying to get out of town not careing where his little boy was, drinking untill you could not stand , as I said in there oun words ,they have alreadt told US,so much !!& as you have pointed out WHY_NUT ,this is all so out ot character of them, with the word being ACTOR

 

[twilight]

The only clues to who did this were in the ransom note. It seems odd to me that the parents would not have intuitively perceived this and poured over the note. Others did, and still do. Many, many, many others. But the parents were not interested in what the note might tell them about the event. That's not reasonable. I suppose if the kidnapper had called, they'd have hung up because they didn't/couldn't stand to hear what this person/s might have to say??? Come on.

What if the note had started out as a ransom demand and then finished by saying whooops...sorry we had to kill her...or whooops, sorry, changed my mind you can pick her up at... or haw, haw, haw, gotcha... But no, they didn't want to know...not likely. Have either of them ever been institutionalized for metal deficiencies?

The only reason not to read the note was to leave it for others to interpret. They had set up a plot that they wanted others to unravel. They didn't want to have to get in there and do it themselves and then have others question their interpretation and ask them to defend it. Better if they could be the questioners asking others to defend their interpretation and defend their interpretation, as the outcome, they knew, would be death...

 

[lannie]

I don't have to tell you TWI ,you are right , the ranson note tells so much , it people would only tune in & listen to it , I just read that a millionair in TEXES just got off on murder even after he addmitted he had shot a man & cut his body up & dumped it & later went back to get the head, at the time of the murder in TX. he was pretending to be a deaf woman , because he was running from theNEW YORK police because his wife had been murdered & her best friend was murdered before she could testify. all this & they set him FREE,Courts,are disscusting !!

SO what chance do we have with this case??

 

[ajt400]

Originally posted by Show Me

And, of course, John agreed 'cause he didn't try to stop Patsy from calling half the town of Boulder over.

I don't know how anyone can expect Patsy to stay on the line with the 911 operator...when she had friends to call over. Heck Patsy didn't even have time to inform the police to be discrete!

And it was the BPD that actually allowed these people into the house, they even asked members of the group to search for them! That is not only ridiculous, it is ridonkulous! Everyone blames the R's for their actions, weel, what about the POLICE who should know better? Oh, don't make them answer questions and be scrutinized. Did you ever think that if they screwed the investigation up so badly in the first 2 hours, what about the rest of it? How can you trust ANY evidence they have put forth? You can't!! These people get paid to do a job, and they let the taxpayers down! (Not to mention JonBenet) Even if the R's are guilty, you should still blame the BPD for not securing the crime scene and ruining evidence that could have convicted them!

Secondly, why should Patsy have to tell the police to be discreet? That is their job! They should know better! If they cannot handle it, go tho the mall and get a job at GAP. As far as I am concerned alot of fingers have been pointed, but none at the BPD for botching an investigation that probably could have been solved, leaking information that should never have been leaked. :nono:

 

[ajt400]

Also, if the police had done a proper search of the house to begin with, JBR's body would have been seen. All they had to do was open a door! Maybe the reason the R's didn't pour over the letter because they put it into the polices' hands thinking they would be able to solve it. Maybe they thought the pollice were professionals who knoew how to do their jobs. Maybe they trusted these people who took an oath to find vengeance for their child. Silly them! Why would they ever expect so much from a police department!

 

[sissi]

Maybe she wasn't there when the police arrived?
Lord,who knows,maybe the killer was in the house when the commotion was going on?
Maybe the killer had her in a suitcase,stopped by,dropped the suitcase through the window,then went down to place her in the back,while Arndt was upstairs trying to "keep it together"?
Maybe the members of the "kidnap watch" should have had their cars checked for fibers?
Maybe anything is possible?
JMO

 

[ajt400]

Yes, but my point was that if the police had simply opened the door in that basement room, we would have known things like that.....

 

[sissi]

It is considered to be innocent,however,Fleet was out of control during a period of time following the murder.Was he having a manic episode that Christmas?
Some unfortunate things put him in the suspect pool ,the fact he accidentally found out the response time between a 911 call and police arrival,his touching the suitcase, picking up glass,touching the tape,touching the wine cellar door,was curiously with John when Jonbenet was found,he pretty much covered himself for any contamination. Then we look at his habits,panty changing,bottom wiping,and didn't he go into a room and straighten up a bed (or is this rumor),nope the man is not normal. Any ONE of you tell me a man friend wipes your kids butts,nope ,nope...never!
Why did his child hide under the bed ,pushing the family to call 911? Has anyone ever had a child that wasn't found from giggling minutes after they play hide ? Nope,not normal,I have many children,all different personalities,and never could one contain themselves from a giggle ,it's normal for them to be found by laughter within minutes. Even if this child,Daphne ,was unusual,certainly at 6 she would have heard them say they had to call the cops,that alone would have brought her out,if she hadn't feared something worse. My question, was she afraid of Fleet ,another family member,or a houseguest?


JMO IMO

 

[twilight]

I agree they certainly expected the police to find the body when they got there. So much simpler than having to do it yourself.

Now, I'd be curious to know what the standard procedure is in a kidnapping case. Do the police go to the scene of the kidnapping and set up headquarters...like they did in the VD case for instance, or do they communicate by what - pigeons? to avoid the kidnappers (people who abduct or steal a child) who will be lurking outside - child over shoulder - watching the comings and goings...huh?

The vast majority of kidnappings in the US are parental. Stranger abductions, although newsworthy - (fear sells) - are not at all common. Therefore, for the police to assume a typical parental kidnapping event, especially given the season, is not really that bizarre. To also assume that the parents have searched likely hiding places, is not unusual I'm sure. And to assume that parents would inform you that you have failed to search a room and to insist on looking in there anyway, is also not too unusual I'm sure. As parents, surely they went through the house with the police officer? Or were they told to stay here, I'll flush him out and you catch him if he tries to leave? Not likely. So, when the officer made the decision not to look in the wine cellar, thinking it was a closet and locked from the outside anyway, why did the Rams agree? They knew it was a room where their daughter could be tied up, possibly unconscious and cold. Why? Because they were afraid not to agree...to seem too set on looking there? They wanted the police to find the body entirely on their own. But ~alas~ they didn't. That was the biggest mistake the BPD made. And what a quandry they created for the Rams. The clock is ticking...what to do...what to do...

 

[TLynn]

FW opened the door to the wine cellar - that didn't result in finding her body (French opening the door may have not resulted in it either).

French didn't even see the broken window.

The crime scene was a cover-up; nobody can definitively deduce the cover-up of what? Sexual in nature, yes...but -

John
JAR
Burke

As most of the above posts point out - there may be bits and pieces of "intruder" evidence - but NOT in totality.

Those bits and pieces are the cover-up.

IT'S THE PINEAPPLE - hard evidence; JonBenet, herself, presenting it.

It's the pineapple - deal with it.

 

[ajt400]

Agreed, but I figured once the police entered the home they would do a prelimenary search of all rooms. Regardless of what the parents said. If she had not been there, (STS) they still should have done a prelim search to gather all evidence available. Besides, when do police departments allow the parents to classify a crime for them,also to search the crime scene. If she had been kidnapped, the house would still be a crime scene, and should have been secured.

 

[twilight]

Sissi - FW has never spoken to anyone other than the police. The police have not released a book, other than ST, and ST does not report any of the stuff you have in your above post...so where are you getting all this stuff?

 

[ajt400]

Originally posted by TLynn
FW opened the door to the wine cellar - that didn't result in finding her body (French opening the door may have not resulted in it either).

French didn't even see the broken window.

The crime scene was a cover-up; nobody can definitively deduce the cover-up of what? Sexual in nature, yes...but -

John
JAR
Burke

As most of the above posts point out - there may be bits and pieces of "intruder" evidence - but NOT in totality.

Those bits and pieces are the cover-up.

IT'S THE PINEAPPLE - hard evidence; JonBenet, herself, presenting it.

It's the pineapple - deal with it.

Then why in the police photograph of the crime scene is the door closed? When I said search thte house, I meant actually LOOK in the rooms.

When a crime scene is staged, the person staging leaves more clues behind than initially.

And if it were staged, why leave the body in the house> Why write a 3 page ransom note and then leave the body in the basement? One would think if you could stage something so well, you would remember to take the body out of the house....

 

[sissi]

Toth,these are the things that came out about Fleet in the beginning,if anyone can point to one particular thing they have never read concerning him ,I will take the time to source it. My days are quiet,watching hubby in his effort to recover,I will find what ya' want,just identify it.
JMOIMO