OR OR - Stephanie Warner, 43, Ruch, 4 Jul 2013 - #2

[Sad Eyes]

Ah, nobody warned me the sponsors link would come up in German for me. I clicked off to translate something, and now I don't know what's gone through or not, lol....This is not the first time this happened to me, but I'll get there in the end.

My little trek through this rigmarole is nothing compared to what these guys just went through, and Stephanie will be honored!

ETA: I ask you, what kind of word is abzuschiessen?

Zwiebel, I think that word abzuschiessen means something to do with shooting or destroying a plane. Not sure about that but I tried to research it on the internet and that was the best definition I could come up with. The "ab" part of the word means killing or shooting or destroying and I think (not sure) that the rest of the word has something to do with a plane. Of course, I could be way off with this! LOL Where did you find that word?????

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you Sad Eyes. Such words and their translations are one of the wonders of trying to make any sort of online transaction when you are not a native ( or even halfway decent) speaker of the language of the country you are living in.

It does indeed mean 'shooting down', but I discovered it meant in the sense; 'you wanna shoot down this donation, or proceed?' As I said, I wasn't going to let a little thing like total, utter confusion stop me honoring Stephanie by helping a brave little soul from her district, and it did not. I've since discovered we could have tracked the mountain climb live here, but I'm glad I didn't - far too nervewracking!

http://www.orphanagesofkenya.org/climbers

Stephanie really needs to be found now, I think. Oregon and even Applegate are big places, but that does not mean she can't be found. Missing people are located all the time, including those long deceased and hidden in the wildest places. Perhaps we need to get our thinking hats on, with regards to locations.

For example, anyone who took Stephanie and put her somewhere, lived somewhere. That means, they had to turn around after, and get back home. Unless they put her somewhere between the place she was last seen and their route home. Thinking along those sort of lines can really help make searches more manageable, and although criminals can be unpredictable, very often they are not, I believe.

I believe Stephanie was abducted and harmed, and think she was left within easy travelling distance of the residence of whoever did it, but just far away enough to reassure that person they were 'distanced' from the crime. My personal feeling is, that's between 20 and 100 miles away. No more.

 

[Lilibet]

<respectfully snipped for focus>

Stephanie really needs to be found now, I think. Oregon and even Applegate are big places, but that does not mean she can't be found. Missing people are located all the time, including those long deceased and hidden in the wildest places. Perhaps we need to get our thinking hats on, with regards to locations.

For example, anyone who took Stephanie and put her somewhere, lived somewhere. That means, they had to turn around after, and get back home. Unless they put her somewhere between the place she was last seen and their route home. Thinking along those sort of lines can really help make searches more manageable, and although criminals can be unpredictable, very often they are not, I believe.

I believe Stephanie was abducted and harmed, and think she was left within easy travelling distance of the residence of whoever did it, but just far away enough to reassure that person they were 'distanced' from the crime. My personal feeling is, that's between 20 and 100 miles away. No more.

Great post, Zwie. Here are the cumulative results of putting my thinking cap on for eight months.

I've linked the timeline and map thread below as a reminder of what we know.

We know for sure that Stephanie and Ames were seen arguing in Ashland before leaving town around 3:30 p.m. Stephanie was seen at the mini-market at Stewart and Lozier Lane in Medford around or after 4:15 p.m. If you blow up the map I have linked below with location icons, you can see that it is just a zig and a zag to get onto Griffin Creek Road. Eventually, this will take you up into the mountains to all sorts of locations, and even back to Stephanie's house without ever going through Ruch. Ames' story about being dropped off at the Ruch Store and hitching a ride to his camp has never been verified. He remains the last person to see Stephanie alive before she was seen at the mini market in Medford. He has never denied being with her at that point, so we can assume he still was.

ETA: Although Ames' son and dil were living in Ashland at the time, we don't know for sure if they were dropped off at home or were in the car with Stephanie and Ames heading to Ruch.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202998600653912919870.0004eb1901303b47009b8&msa=0

Here is my theory. All JMO, MOO, etc. They may have stopped at the mini market so that Stephanie could buy some beer to relax her after the argument. I think it's possible they left the car running and Ames stayed in the car, but moved to the driver's seat so that Stephanie could have a beer, illegally. She had an alcohol monitoring device on her car, according to her friends. We don't know all the stops and starts it recorded that day except for the late night early morning one LE has told us about.

Perhaps he suggested a nice peaceful drive in the country. She would have wanted to be home by 5:00 pm for her usual phone call to her Mom in NOLA and to tell her about the parade. But maybe she agreed to a short drive, or maybe he immobilized her somehow after she'd had a few beers. Or maybe she didn't want to call her Mom after drinking. Either way, I think it's likely they ended up in the mountains. From there, it's anybody's guess, but Ames knows those mountains. There are caves. He would know where he could take her, kill her and hide her body. In the photos of him on the parade float that Neptune enhanced, it appears that he is wearing a gun under his shirt. Keep in mind that they were in an off-road vehicle. It was July 4. A gunshot would go unnoticed.

ETA: I think she was killed near where she is buried and not transported afterward in the car. I think LE would be able to tells if her body had ever been in the car.

One odd event is that someone played a game of Texas Hold'em on her FB page at 6:30 pm July 4. We've debated whether this is an accurate time. Could she have played it on her phone from wherever they drove? Could Ames have planted it on her phone or have gotten back to her house in time to play it...or? I believe her phone is missing. We don't know if any attempt was made to track its pings, or if it was even possible.

LE has told us that her car was used from late at night July 4 into the early morning July 5. They have not told us the times, so it's hard to judge distances. My theory is that after killing her and hiding her body, Ames may have come back to her house. He may have needed items to make it less likely that her body would be discovered...something to wrap her in or plug up a hole with, or even chemicals. That could account for the late night drive...back to the burial site? It would make sense to use her more reliable vehicle. Again, this is just a theory.

ETA: Another possible theory is that Ames also took his son and dil back to Ashland in addition to what I've described above. We just don't know whether Stephanie and Ames were alone when they left Ashland and the things I've theorized transpired. Could Ames have carried all of this out by himself? Was there an accidental or unpremeditated killing that needed to be covered up? Did they come hang out at Stephanie's until after dark and go back to secure the site "on the way" back to Ashland ? I'm not making accusations in any way, with any of this. I'm trying to account for the late night driving and figure out where Stephanie could be. But the three of them moved into Stephanie's very soon after she disappeared and didn't seem particularly concerned. No FB posts asking for help to find her, no searches organized, a self-serving TV interview. I've always thought that they all know what happened that night. JMO, MOO

Her car was returned to her home, but not parked in its usual spot. Her keys and bag of medications were in the kitchen, but not her backpack purse. It's likely that Ames had left his vehicle at her house July 4. So all he would need to do is pick it up in the middle of the night, take her gate opener to let himself out (it's missing) and drive out to his camp.

Ames has repeatedly pointed the finger of blame at Stephanie's neighbor and former boyfriend, with whom she was not on good terms. He, however, has never been named a POI. Of course, nothing is impossible, and I only mention this in fairness to Ames, who feels he has been unjustly suspected in the Ruch community. But IMO, my theory fits better with what we know than trying to somehow shoehorn her old bf into this scenario. I am prepared to eat crow if necessary. I only want Stephanie found and her killer convicted, whoever it is.

I hope LE will organize a cadaver dog search this spring. Using the possibility that they drove out Griffin Creek Road up into the mountains, and the timing of the late night drive, I think they could narrow down the location. Can't hurt, might help.

Again all JMO, MOO.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226249&highlight=Stephanie+Warner

 

[Sad Eyes]

Lilibet that was a great summary of the case! I was very curious as to what the results were on the DNA testing of the device that was installed in her vecicle that need to be breathed into to start her vehicle. I sure hope it was tested.That would prove who started that car just incase the sterling wheel didn't have fingerprints on it. I would imagine LE still has her car for evidence sake. JMO

 

[OUOTP]

I first heard about Stephanie through a mutual friend, after she had gone missing. I became almost immediately entranced by this case plus a gut wrenching desire to find this woman and if necessary bring those responsible forward to a swift justice.
I&#8217;m a lot like Stephanie in so many ways! In particular, our taste in men. ARGHHH!!! I had me a Lennie Ames&#8230; He nearly killed me. My point being: HE DID NOT!

That was several years ago. I was having great trouble getting through it and back to the vibrant, spiritual woman I had always been ( Again, like Stephanie!)
This search for Stephanie has been therapeutic for me to the point where I am able to love and trust again&#8230; I&#8217;m in love with the most amazing man I have ever known and he loves me with such beauty--My heart is filled with sunshine and song.

That said, I do realize how sweet that last statement was and I apologize if any of you threw up. &#61514;

It occurs to me that none of this would be possible in my life were it not for Stephanie&#8230;

How glorious is her soul and spirit and energy and everything that she is! Thank you Stephanie <3

 

[Mustang Sally]

Great post, Zwie. Here are the cumulative results of putting my thinking cap on for eight months.

I've linked the timeline and map thread below as a reminder of what we know.

We know for sure that Stephanie and Ames were seen arguing in Ashland before leaving town around 3:30 p.m. Stephanie was seen at the mini-market at Stewart and Lozier Lane in Medford around or after 4:15 p.m. If you blow up the map I have linked below with location icons, you can see that it is just a zig and a zag to get onto Griffin Creek Road. Eventually, this will take you up into the mountains to all sorts of locations, and even back to Stephanie's house without ever going through Ruch. Ames' story about being dropped off at the Ruch Store and hitching a ride to his camp has never been verified. He remains the last person to see Stephanie alive before she was seen at the mini market in Medford. He has never denied being with her at that point, so we can assume he still was.

ETA: Although Ames' son and dil were living in Ashland at the time, we don't know for sure if they were dropped off at home or were in the car with Stephanie and Ames heading to Ruch.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202998600653912919870.0004eb1901303b47009b8&msa=0

Here is my theory. All JMO, MOO, etc. They may have stopped at the mini market so that Stephanie could buy some beer to relax her after the argument. I think it's possible they left the car running and Ames stayed in the car, but moved to the driver's seat so that Stephanie could have a beer, illegally. She had an alcohol monitoring device on her car, according to her friends. We don't know all the stops and starts it recorded that day except for the late night early morning one LE has told us about.

Perhaps he suggested a nice peaceful drive in the country. She would have wanted to be home by 5:00 pm for her usual phone call to her Mom in NOLA and to tell her about the parade. But maybe she agreed to a short drive, or maybe he immobilized her somehow after she'd had a few beers. Or maybe she didn't want to call her Mom after drinking. Either way, I think it's likely they ended up in the mountains. From there, it's anybody's guess, but Ames knows those mountains. There are caves. He would know where he could take her, kill her and hide her body. In the photos of him on the parade float that Neptune enhanced, it appears that he is wearing a gun under his shirt. Keep in mind that they were in an off-road vehicle. It was July 4. A gunshot would go unnoticed.

ETA: I think she was killed near where she is buried and not transported afterward in the car. I think LE would be able to tells if her body had ever been in the car.

One odd event is that someone played a game of Texas Hold'em on her FB page at 6:30 pm July 4. We've debated whether this is an accurate time. Could she have played it on her phone from wherever they drove? Could Ames have planted it on her phone or have gotten back to her house in time to play it...or? I believe her phone is missing. We don't know if any attempt was made to track its pings, or if it was even possible.

LE has told us that her car was used from late at night July 4 into the early morning July 5. They have not told us the times, so it's hard to judge distances. My theory is that after killing her and hiding her body, Ames may have come back to her house. He may have needed items to make it less likely that her body would be discovered...something to wrap her in or plug up a hole with, or even chemicals. That could account for the late night drive...back to the burial site? It would make sense to use her more reliable vehicle. Again, this is just a theory.

ETA: Another possible theory is that Ames also took his son and dil back to Ashland in addition to what I've described above. We just don't know whether Stephanie and Ames were alone when they left Ashland and the things I've theorized transpired. Could Ames have carried all of this out by himself? Was there an accidental or unpremeditated killing that needed to be covered up? Did they come hang out at Stephanie's until after dark and go back to secure the site "on the way" back to Ashland ? I'm not making accusations in any way, with any of this. I'm trying to account for the late night driving and figure out where Stephanie could be. But the three of them moved into Stephanie's very soon after she disappeared and didn't seem particularly concerned. No FB posts asking for help to find her, no searches organized, a self-serving TV interview. I've always thought that they all know what happened that night. JMO, MOO

Her car was returned to her home, but not parked in its usual spot. Her keys and bag of medications were in the kitchen, but not her backpack purse. It's likely that Ames had left his vehicle at her house July 4. So all he would need to do is pick it up in the middle of the night, take her gate opener to let himself out (it's missing) and drive out to his camp.

Ames has repeatedly pointed the finger of blame at Stephanie's neighbor and former boyfriend, with whom she was not on good terms. He, however, has never been named a POI. Of course, nothing is impossible, and I only mention this in fairness to Ames, who feels he has been unjustly suspected in the Ruch community. But IMO, my theory fits better with what we know than trying to somehow shoehorn her old bf into this scenario. I am prepared to eat crow if necessary. I only want Stephanie found and her killer convicted, whoever it is.

I hope LE will organize a cadaver dog search this spring. Using the possibility that they drove out Griffin Creek Road up into the mountains, and the timing of the late night drive, I think they could narrow down the location. Can't hurt, might help.

Again all JMO, MOO.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226249&highlight=Stephanie+Warner

I think you have figured it all out. This sequence of events is the most realistic of all the ones we here at WS have came up with!

Sweet Stephanie touched a place in my heart and her family deserves some clousure!

Dear God...Please Bring Stephanie Anne Warner Home to Those Who Love Her!

 

[Sad Eyes]

Ok Lilibet that summary of the case has inspired me to start digging again. I just checked the NAMUS file and they now state the DNA status is "Sample submitted - Tests complete". This is good news! Probably the only new news I've seen in months. That will definitely help to identify her if/when she is found. The dental records were on there a long time ago but the DNA sample has to be fairly new cause I check the NAMUS sometime in January and it wasn't on it then. Stephanie's NAMUS file number is 21345.

 

[Sad Eyes]

I first heard about Stephanie through a mutual friend, after she had gone missing. I became almost immediately entranced by this case plus a gut wrenching desire to find this woman and if necessary bring those responsible forward to a swift justice.
I&#8217;m a lot like Stephanie in so many ways! In particular, our taste in men. ARGHHH!!! I had me a Lennie Ames&#8230; He nearly killed me. My point being: HE DID NOT!

That was several years ago. I was having great trouble getting through it and back to the vibrant, spiritual woman I had always been ( Again, like Stephanie!)
This search for Stephanie has been therapeutic for me to the point where I am able to love and trust again&#8230; I&#8217;m in love with the most amazing man I have ever known and he loves me with such beauty--My heart is filled with sunshine and song.

That said, I do realize how sweet that last statement was and I apologize if any of you threw up. &#61514;

It occurs to me that none of this would be possible in my life were it not for Stephanie&#8230;

How glorious is her soul and spirit and energy and everything that she is! Thank you Stephanie <3

Ouotp, congrats on your new found love! I agree with you I think we have all found a lil bit of Stephanie in all of us. I'm sure her spirit & energy have definitely touch anyone who has read this thread. I believe she is trying to reach us from beyond to help us find her. I find myself waking up in the middle of the night after dreaming of what could have happened to her. Of course, the first thing I do after I wake up from my dreams is to get on Web Sleuths to see if there is any new news! This thread is alive because we all are here for the same reason! We want Justice for Stephanie. I believe in God and I pray all the time for those who know something to redeem themselves and go to LE. I also pray for LE to not give up! Keep searching please! She is out there and wants to be found. I pray for her family and friends to have the strength to cope with the "not knowing" where she is-- that has to be the hardest thing to cope with.
Ouotp, I miss seeing your posts on here. You are a vibrant & lively person with a lot of spunck! You had very good sleuthing techniques and I miss seeing those ideas that you had about the case. Don't stay away so long! You had me worried about you! Take care & live it up with that new love! :loveyou:

 

[zwiebel]

What does the green marker on Applegate Lake signify Lilibet? The search we think police carried out there?

 

[Lilibet]

What does the green marker on Applegate Lake signify Lilibet? The search we think police carried out there?

The green tent-shaped marker is on Carberry Creek Road, where we believe one of Ames' mining camps was. I don't think this is the one Dicentra went to with the son in hopes of finding Stephanie. I'd have to go back and dig through notes.

Where the LE searched supposedly was up at the other end of the lake, closer to Stephanie's. There is a bridge road across the lake that we walked out on. It leads to a few campgrounds. It wouldn't be difficult to hide her underwater. The late night drive could have been for that purpose. I think there would have been more chance of being seen than up in the mountains though. JMO

 

[zwiebel]

I'm guessing that Stephanie set out for the parade pretty early and that her dog was left behind. It seems to me that Stephanie would have wanted to get home to feed it first, before maybe going out anywhere else that evening, after the parade was over?

I am beginning to feel that late night outing for the vehicle marked Stephanie's final journey myself, and that it wasn't her driving. A deceased person can be transported in a vehicle without leaving a trace of evidence of them being dead in the vehicle. Except scent, to a cadaver dog, which is not evidence.

If the victim and suspect in such a case have both had legitimate reasons to be in the vehicle alive, with hair/DNA even blood traces etc, it can be incredibly hard to differentiate between traces from a dead or living person.

 

[Lilibet]

I'm guessing that Stephanie set out for the parade pretty early and that her dog was left behind. It seems to me that Stephanie would have wanted to get home to feed it first, before maybe going out anywhere else that evening, after the parade was over?

I am beginning to feel that late night outing for the vehicle marked Stephanie's final journey myself, and that it wasn't her driving. A deceased person can be transported in a vehicle without leaving a trace of evidence of them being dead in the vehicle. Except scent, to a cadaver dog, which is not evidence.

If the victim and suspect in such a case have both had legitimate reasons to be in the vehicle alive, with hair/DNA even blood traces etc, it can be incredibly hard to differentiate between traces from a dead or living person.

BBM

I see your point, Zwiebel. For a long time I thought that Stephanie came home before leaving again late in the evening. The poker game online seemed to indicate that. Her medicine bag left on a stool in the kitchen was a clue that she made it home (She never went anywhere without it, according to Dicentra). She had lots of animals to feed...cats, a sheep, goats.

But she never called her mother, which tells me that she was incapacitated before she could make the call (usually around 5:00 p.m. which is 7:00 p.m. NOLA time). To me, that outweighs the indications that she may have made it home. I can explain the poker game and medicine bag, but not neglecting to call her mother. She called her a couple of times each day, and would have definitely called her to tell her about how the parade went. The more I think about it, I think she was somehow incapacitated shortly after leaving the market. Otherwise, she would have made a stink about not going straight home and calling her mother. JMO

I wasn't aware that a body could be transported in a car without leaving a sign other than scent. That's interesting. But it would seem risky to the average person, I think. There were no signs of foul play at her home or on her property. As I recall, a cadaver dog didn't pick up a scent there.

Putting all that together is why I think she was killed in the mountains after the stop at the mini market. I believe her body was well hidden while her killer returned to her home after dark to gather up whatever was needed to make sure she was not easily found or identified. I say that because of things I know that I'm not sure were ever discussed here (I'll check). Then he drove back up the mountain to finish what he had started. Did he make a side trip to pick up someone strong to help him?

Whether she made it home or not, my husband is convinced that all traces of her were destroyed as much as possible, giving her killer confidence he would not be caught.

Poor Stephanie. I just hope that she never knew what was about to happen.

 

[zwiebel]

It's not so much that a body can be transported without traces, but the problem is if they are known to have been in the vehicle before.

For example, in stranger abductions, killers have been convicted because of hair, fabric - and in the case of one poor little girl - tears/mucus found on the vehicle doors. But if any of those were found in Stephanie's car, it wouldn't mean a thing. It was her vehicle so there will be traces of her all over it. And Lennie's too, as he was her boyfriend and travelled in the vehicle.

Even blood might not do it, unless it was a large enough amount to indicate Stephanie could not have survived that blood loss.

 

[zwiebel]

The other thing is that I can't recall many cases at all of people killed outdoors being 'cleaned up' with householder cleaners etc. There are just a few cases I know of where dumb killers have sprinkled bodies with lime (it's a myth it helps bodies decompose. It actually helps preserve them).

People killed outdoors generally appear to be;
Dumped in the open off a highway (by panicked killers or predators who don't give a dang)
Dumped off a highway but over some kind of drop that makes them hard to see and recover
Buried
Or, sadly, burned.
And water of course. But unless they are weighed down, victims very often surface after a couple of weeks.

 

[for ashley]

Just wanted to chime in and give my usual HUGE thanks to everyone here, especially Lilibet and Zwiebel. You two are keeping this going and keeping people aware. I can't thank you enough. It's also nice to see the comments and well wishes from those who don't always comment but are following. So thank you all!

I've come to realize that I can't think about what happened to Stephanie everyday, I will loose my mind. It's too sad and too enraging. I think of Stephanie everyday and everyday something reminds me of her, it's always bittersweet. I smile or laugh, then cry. I will never stop or give up hope. Justice for Stephanie!!

 

[Lilibet]

Hugs to you for_ashley. I wish we could do more.

:grouphug:

 

[Lilibet]

Slightly OT sarcasm alert...The tattooed wedding bands didn't go to waste after all. A FB relationship status change apparently saves the legal hassle of divorce and getting back together again.

 

[Sad Eyes]

It's not so much that a body can be transported without traces, but the problem is if they are known to have been in the vehicle before.

For example, in stranger abductions, killers have been convicted because of hair, fabric - and in the case of one poor little girl - tears/mucus found on the vehicle doors. But if any of those were found in Stephanie's car, it wouldn't mean a thing. It was her vehicle so there will be traces of her all over it. And Lennie's too, as he was her boyfriend and travelled in the vehicle.

Even blood might not do it, unless it was a large enough amount to indicate Stephanie could not have survived that blood loss.

Zwie, I think the biggest clue they are going to get from the vehicle is that device that needed to be blown in to start the vehicle. I sure hope DNA was taken from that device. Also tire thread compressions I imagine were made of her tires for future comparisons if needed.

 

[Sad Eyes]

Just wanted to chime in and give my usual HUGE thanks to everyone here, especially Lilibet and Zwiebel. You two are keeping this going and keeping people aware. I can't thank you enough. It's also nice to see the comments and well wishes from those who don't always comment but are following. So thank you all!

I've come to realize that I can't think about what happened to Stephanie everyday, I will loose my mind. It's too sad and too enraging. I think of Stephanie everyday and everyday something reminds me of her, it's always bittersweet. I smile or laugh, then cry. I will never stop or give up hope. Justice for Stephanie!!

For Ashley I am always thinking about you and praying for you too. May you find peace with this by remembering all your happy times with Stephanie. I'm sending you hugs too.
Take care.

 

[Sad Eyes]

I'm guessing that Stephanie set out for the parade pretty early and that her dog was left behind. It seems to me that Stephanie would have wanted to get home to feed it first, before maybe going out anywhere else that evening, after the parade was over?

I am beginning to feel that late night outing for the vehicle marked Stephanie's final journey myself, and that it wasn't her driving. A deceased person can be transported in a vehicle without leaving a trace of evidence of them being dead in the vehicle. Except scent, to a cadaver dog, which is not evidence.

If the victim and suspect in such a case have both had legitimate reasons to be in the vehicle alive, with hair/DNA even blood traces etc, it can be incredibly hard to differentiate between traces from a dead or living person.

Zwie I agree with Lilibet about Stephanie never making it home that night from the parade. I think she was killed on the way home from the parade, thrown out on the side of the road and later someone went back to where she was (after dark) to dispose of her (probably bury her). JMO. But from the little bit of evidence that we know from what Dicentra was able to share I don't think she ever made it home. As far as the poker game anyone who knew her password could have played the game. And as far as the time of the game, I often wondered what time ZONE is used to record the time that the game is played. That could leave a 3 hour difference in when it was actually played. I have never seen the time zone questioned here on WS. I believe the Florida time Zone is 3 hours different than Oregon's. So, she could have possibly been playing it at 3:30 which is the approximated time she was last seen at the store if memory serves me right. Does anyone know what time zone the poker game is recorded under?