Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #70 *Appeal Verdict*

[Belgarion]

Wild speculation about what the Pistorius siblings may or may not have thought/said/done achieves little, IMO.

It is far from 'safe' to assume,for example, that Aimee collected the handbag for sinister purposes and in so doing, dragged Carice Stander into it with her.

Neither is it safe to draw any conclusions about their character or that of their brother - (who often seems to be cast in the role of master-sibling-manipulator whenever the topic of the bag /phone crops up)- from little more than unobjective guesswork.

Also, the psychologists who assessed him seemed convinced that his 'grief' is in fact, grief, and therefore doesn't merit the inverted commas.

Sorry, the inverted commas stay given that it is accepted psychology is not an exact science then by definition those who practise it cannot give an exact answer which leads to the conclusion there has to be some degree of probability that his ‘grief’ was not genuine.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Sorry, the inverted commas stay given that it is accepted psychology is not an exact science then by definition those who practise it cannot give an exact answer which leads to the conclusion there has to be some degree of probability that his ‘grief’ was not genuine.

There cannot have been too much grief re his killing Reeva, if any, as he was chasing other women within a few weeks. It seems his apparent 'grief' was for the court's consumption and possibly grief at having ruined his life.

 

[Belgarion]

Something incriminating CP in an unrelated issue and exactly why she said she took the bag. She believed and still believes it was an accident and as far as she was concerned no "crime" had been committed. In such an emotionally charged situation she made a bad decision. Why does it have to be sinister?

Do you really believe she really believes that? Ever crossed your mind she is just showing loyalty to her brother. Or are you willing to believe her because if you don't you might have to consider thinking ill of a proven murderer

 

[Trotterly]

Lol. I knew you would come up with something exonerating both of them. I am 100 per cent sure that both of them knew it was a crime to remove anything from a murder scene. One would have to be an ignoramus not to and IMO they are both worldly enough to know the law. Interesting that you feel that she thinks OP is not guilty. I happen to think the whole Pistorius family know he is guilty.

Your brother just shot his girlfriend to death by mistake and you believe him 110%. What murder scene?

Hindsight. Armchair thinking. You have no idea what that experience is like.

 

[Trotterly]

Do you really believe she really believes that? Ever crossed your mind she is just showing loyalty to her brother. Or are you willing to believe her because if you don't you might have to consider thinking ill of a proven murderer

I don't know what she believes now, this far down the line. On the night I can easily believe that thoughts of a crime were far from her mind.

You seem to think they were/are religious people. Don't "they" have a tendency to cling on to beliefs well-past their sell-by date? I'm no expert mind you.

ETA I don't care about any of the principals. I thought I had already made that clear.

 

[Belgarion]

There cannot have been too much grief re his killing Reeva, if any, as he was chasing other women within a few weeks. It seems his apparent 'grief' was for the court's consumption and possibly grief at having ruined his life.

Exactly. The grief for himself was ably demonstrated by him swearing to dedicate Reeva’s life to God if he only saved her, thereby saving his lifestyle. It’s all about HIM, but then Reeva couldn’t disagree about her life being offered up to God as he had just murdered her

 

[Trotterly]

Sorry, the inverted commas stay given that it is accepted psychology is not an exact science then by definition those who practise it cannot give an exact answer which leads to the conclusion there has to be some degree of probability that his ‘grief’ was not genuine.

When accepted by the judge that expert opinion becomes fact whether it's an exact science or not.

BTW If you ever find an "exact" science then please let me know.

 

[Trotterly]

Exactly. The grief for himself was ably demonstrated by him swearing to dedicate Reeva’s life to God if he only saved her, thereby saving his lifestyle. It’s all about HIM, but then Reeva couldn’t disagree about her life being offered up to God as he had just murdered her

Unless the media and a murder trial is somehow unrepresentative of a persons character then I agree with you. He does appear self centred and selfish.

How unusual that is for a celebrity I don't know. I also don't know how reliable an indicator it is of being a murderer.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Your brother just shot his girlfriend to death by mistake and you believe him 110%. What murder scene?

Hindsight. Armchair thinking. You have no idea what that experience is like.

Vaguely possible she may have thought it was an accident at the time but I do not believe that she did not know it was an offence to remove articles from a crime scene which leads me to wonder whether she did in fact believe it was an accident even at that point in time.

Would you have removed anything from the scene had you been there?

 

[mhiforme]

There cannot have been too much grief re his killing Reeva, if any, as he was chasing other women within a few weeks. It seems his apparent 'grief' was for the court's consumption and possibly grief at having ruined his life.

It'll always be easy to take small one off observations that get hyped in the media as a means to prove your case but on the flip side of the coin, there's also Oscar who built a shrine for Reeva in his home where he recognizes her spirit daily. Of course, this side of Oscar won't fit your model of a murder so you will disregard it as just a show for the media and a play for sympathy.

 

[mhiforme]

Vaguely possible she may have thought it was an accident at the time but I do not believe that she did not know it was an offence to remove articles from a crime scene which leads me to wonder whether she did in fact believe it was an accident even at that point in time.

Would you have removed anything from the scene had you been there?

I don't recall Aimee being charged with obstruction of justice since it was a crime and the police have an obligation to uphold the law.

 

[Trotterly]

Vaguely possible she may have thought it was an accident at the time but I do not believe that she did not know it was an offence to remove articles from a crime scene which leads me to wonder whether she did in fact believe it was an accident even at that point in time.

Would you have removed anything from the scene had you been there?

I don't know, I've never experienced such a situation involving my own family.

I have seen people who have though and I know they can occasionally act in rather odd ways. I have usually assumed them to be acting in response to an emotionally charged situation and quite innocently.

 

[Interested Bystander]

It'll always be easy to take small one off observations that get hyped in the media as a means to prove your case but on the flip side of the coin, there's also Oscar who built a shrine for Reeva in his home where he recognizes her spirit daily. Of course, this side of Oscar won't fit your model of a murder so you will disregard it as just a show for the media and a play for sympathy.

I agree with your point that I will disregard much of what was said by his family. Have you never wondered why they felt it necessary to release to the press that he had built a shrine to Reeva?

 

[aftermath]

I agree with your point that I will disregard much of what was said by his family. Have you never wondered why they felt it necessary to release to the press that he had built a shrine to Reeva?

What was the actual proof that he had been chasing other women?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I don't know, I've never experienced such a situation involving my own family.

I have seen people who have though and I know they can occasionally act in rather odd ways. I have usually assumed them to be acting in response to an emotionally charged situation and quite innocently.

Interesting. I know I would never have removed anything even if I had assumed he was totally innocent and I also know I would support my family in this situation but never by doing anything illegal.

Do you find you always support whom you consider the underdog?

 

[Interested Bystander]

He was seen in a Johannesburg bar, worse the wear for drink, and was heard chatting up young ladies to put it crudely.

 

[aftermath]

He was seen in a Johannesburg bar, worse the wear for drink, and was heard chatting up young ladies to put it crudely.

By whom? Do you have a link?

 

[Belgarion]

I agree with your point that I will disregard much of what was said by his family. Have you never wondered why they felt it necessary to release to the press that he had built a shrine to Reeva?

Pardon me for being cynical but I don’t see a self-centred egotistical individual like Pistorius building a shrine to anyone unless of course it’s to himself.

However I do see the families’ PR company coming up with the idea to paint him in a better light then conveniently releasing it to the press.

I would hazard a guess there are no photos of this shrine as it probably remains just a figment of the imagination – much like the ‘intruder’

 

[Trotterly]

Interesting. I know I would never have removed anything even if I had assumed he was totally innocent and I also know I would support my family in this situation but never by doing anything illegal.

Do you find you always support whom you consider the underdog?

I don't think I'm supporting anyone just deciding what's been proved - it is a thread about legal matters after all. It is only the process of the SA courts that interests me. It could be OP or Mr X, I honestly and truly don't care.

 

[Interested Bystander]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/oscar-pistorius-denies-partying-drinking-shots-groped-457120

This is one. I hope it works. There are others around I believe. I am sure you will say it is only a newspaper report but that is the normal route for this sort of information to be made public.