Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016 #2

[DanceCard]

Oscar makes me sick. This whole thing makes me sick actually. I wish he could be jailed for a very very long time but I know he won't be. He'll always be a danger imo.

Me too. I always feel as if I need a thorough scrub down after I've been reading about this case which is why I took a break from following it .

 

[LemonMousse]

Thanks for this.
I followed the case up to and including the original trial but haven't followed much since the conviction was overturned at the end of last year. I'm not at all knowledgable about SA law or court procedure so this is all new to me, although I did follow the Shrien Dewani trial too.

I was concerned that after the psychologist's evidence earlier this week that there may be some 'get out' to enable him to spend a period of time in a hospital, even though he's not criminally insane.

I can't even think about community service instead of jail!

One final question, does he have any further right to appeal after he's sentenced this time?

He could appeal the sentence, but not the conviction.

Just to add...if he does appeal the sentence, it'll be because Masipa has sentenced harshly. And if she has then it's unlikely that she'd grant bail while he waited out the appeal.

I am certain that he'll be going to prison on July 6.

 

[Paul Connelly]

RSBM...
He'll probably vomit on camera a couple of times too, for good measure.

Can someone please confirm that he is definitely, absolutely going to prison after sentencing? There isn't an option for him to be detained in a psychiatric ward or anything like that is there?

He won't be going to a psychiatric ward that is 100% clear!

He was found fit to stand trial by Weskoppies and they did not diagnose any anti-social personality disorder despite evidence to the contrary.

Medically, sociopathy, which I consider him to fall under, is termed as antisocial personality disorder. It is defined as "a mental health condition in which a person has a long-term pattern of manipulating, exploiting, or violating the rights of others."

The exact cause of sociopathy is not known. However, it is believed to result from complex interaction of genetic and environmental factors (e.g. child abuse, alcoholic parents).

Various hallmark sociopath traits are listed below. It is important to note that not all traits will be present in all the "sociopaths". But clearly Oscar has demonstrated many of these traits in his adulthood.

According to ICD-10 criteria, presence of 3 or more of the following qualifies for the diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder (~sociopathy):

Callous unconcern for the feelings of others. (check)
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, and obligations. (check)
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them. (check)
Very low tolerance to frustration, a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence. (check)
Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment. (check)
Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalization for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society. (check)

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV-TR) is another widely used tool for the diagnosis and it defines sociopath traits as:

Pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following: (check)
Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest (check)
Deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure (check)
Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead (???- debatable)
Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults (check)
Reckless disregard for safety of self or others (check)
Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
Lack of remorse as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another (check)
The individual is at least age 18 years. (check)
There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode. (check)


Notwithstanding the MMPI 2 test carried out by the biased Prof Scholtz he still shows sociopathic traits on almost every diagnostic criteria. I don't think he is a psychopath which is really just a severe form of sociopathy but he is definitely a highly functioning sociopath. Committal to a hospital would be of no benefit whatsoever and he needs to be in prison and closely supervised when he is released. He is and always will be a danger to himself and those around him. For me, the fact he has escaped such a diagnosis is frustrating as it could be used as "the" most aggravating factor as it is almost impossible for such a person to feel remorse or indeed modify their behaviour. Whatever sentence is handed down by Masipa or the SCA, the fact remains he should be locked up for at least 25 years as he presents a real danger to the public and will continue to do so. He is pathologically incapable of remorse or change.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Well, any prisoner could be detained in a psychiatric ward instead of a prison. He'd just go there until he was better then be transferred to prison.

But he has not been sentenced to be detained in hospital in the way that someone who is criminally insane would be.

He will be incarcerated. And if Masipa does go down the community service/suspended sentence route, Nel will appeal and he will win.

re: suspended sentence
"The mandatory sentencing regime prohibits the suspension of a mandatory minimum sentence"

so, as there is no suspended sentence on the mandatory minimum element, he would have to be sentenced to more than fifteen years to get any length of the sentence suspended.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/sentencing-guidelines/southafrica.php#_ftn17
http://www.justice.gov.za/legislation/acts/2013-042.pdf

 

[Viper]

For those of you that have access to the program:



Mark Williams-Thomas
@mwilliamsthomas
1h
@moirakennedy14 It is still scheduled for the 24th June for broadcast .
View conversation ·

 

[soozieqtips]

I'm with you, watching it now.

Thanks so much, cotton. Can finally sit down and start to watch!

 

[lithgow1]

For those of you that have access to the program:



Mark Williams-Thomas
@mwilliamsthomas
1h
@moirakennedy14 It is still scheduled for the 24th June for broadcast .
View conversation ·

Well that surprises me. You'd think this could potentially be very damaging. I have no interest in watching it but am interested to find out what he says. I also hope this thread stays open until at least then so we can critique it!

 

[sleuth-d-]

He could appeal the sentence, but not the conviction.

Just to add...if he does appeal the sentence, it'll be because Masipa has sentenced harshly. And if she has then it's unlikely that she'd grant bail while he waited out the appeal.

I am certain that he'll be going to prison on July 6.

i agree, how can he not be going to prison on 6 july. and for murder, finally!
re: appeals... i imagine he will start appealing straight away regardless of sentence, but at least - and also finally! - he will have to appeal from a cell.

 

[sinth]

Commentators on barry's impact incl short clip of Carl responding to TV journalist.

I know that quote from Carl has been posted on this forum before (from twitter), I didn't realise there was an actual clip of it. His attitude is reprehensible.

 

[Paul Connelly]

Well that surprises me. You'd think this could potentially be very damaging. I have no interest in watching it but am interested to find out what he says. I also hope this thread stays open until at least then so we can critique it!

I tweeted Mark Thomas earlier to ask, a touch facetiously admittedly, whether I'd need my green bucket with me when the programme airs? Also, whether he agreed with Nel's assertion that it showed contempt for Reeva's family and the Court?

He hasn't responded yet but maybe he has no credit on his smartphone after paying all that money to buy the license to screen the Pistorius PR-fest! I'd have expected more from a fellow Celt but hey-ho...

 

[Viper]

Well that surprises me. You'd think this could potentially be very damaging. I have no interest in watching it but am interested to find out what he says. I also hope this thread stays open until at least then so we can critique it!

Mr. Williams-Thomas seems smitten with OP, IMO judging by his tweets. Should be a fluffy interview. Wonder if OP will cry and scream like a woman? Nah... I'm not convinced that this was for the court's consumption, seems more that OP wants to be accepted by society again; for all OP knew he could have (and should have) been sentenced today or Friday.

Anyone following the SA news for the public's opinion of the resentencing?

 

[lithgow1]

I tweeted Mark Thomas earlier to ask, a touch facetiously admittedly, whether I'd need my green bucket with me when the programme airs? Also, whether he agreed with Nel's assertion that it showed contempt for Reeva's family and the Court?

He hasn't responded yet but maybe he has no credit on his smartphone after paying all that money to buy the license to screen the Pistorius PR-fest! I'd have expected more from a fellow Celt but hey-ho...

I think you may be waiting for a while before he gets back to you! I wonder if Uncle A discussed this with Roux? You'd have to think he would have advised against it in the strongest terms. As Mr Jitty said earlier, most judges would be very unimpressed by such a move. And it gave Nel such an excellent opportunity to claim that OP will tell the world, but not the court. Classic own goal IMO.

I can't understand it because I can't see any advantage to him/them from it. People have pretty much made up their minds as to intruder or Reeva and OP talking more is unlikely to change that. All I can think of is they are delusional and that is not a satisfactory explanation really. What makes me think that is during the trial when Uncle A gave an interview and said he was looking forward to seeing Oscar in the Rio Olympics or words to that effect. It seemed so out of touch with the reality of the situation and that is one example of quite a few, Carl's tweets being another.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Re my post 70 (which I am unable to edit). I may have misinterpreted why Roux put Oscar on display. It may have had more to do with his ability on his stumps on the night of the murder whereas I took it to encourage pity for any future incarceration. Either way OP was most definitely faking it as we have all witnessed him almost running at his uncle's house. I don't know when the ITV film was shot but he looked fit enough in the photo trailing the programme.

 

[LemonMousse]

The photos have been released.

Some are here: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...va-Steenkamp-dead-body-dad-wants-world-to-see

Please be cautious....they are very graphic and extremely upsetting.

Still beautiful in spite of the wounds, though.

 

[soozieqtips]

I'm with you, watching it now.

Have skipped some of Roux's stuff and am on to Nel painstakingly pointing out how OP, a person trained in firearms - armed himself with a heavy calibre gun and lethal bullets and proceeded towards the bathroom in order to deal with the 'intruder'. At this point, Roux doesn't look happy. Haven't got to the female witness yet, but am looking forward to catching all of that!

 

[cottonweaver]

Well that surprises me. You'd think this could potentially be very damaging. I have no interest in watching it but am interested to find out what he says. I also hope this thread stays open until at least then so we can critique it!

I think we are all of us doing well to ignore & scroll as the moderators have advised . That sounds like class monitor -oh you know what I mean

I'm sure any new or very infrequent posters will get it too. So we should be able to stay open until the 6th of b----- July!
It better be perfect Masipa, if you're going to take 3 weeks on it.

 

[cottonweaver]

The photos have been released.

Some are here: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...va-Steenkamp-dead-body-dad-wants-world-to-see

Please be cautious....they are very graphic and extremely upsetting.

Still beautiful in spite of the wounds, though.

Didn't expect anything so quick. Naive me, thought it may even be after sentencing!
I know it's a cliche but they did everything to ensure the victim could not speak ,scrubbed out of the narrative, so I will look later at these. Tx.

 

[Paul Connelly]

I think you may be waiting for a while before he gets back to you! I wonder if Uncle A discussed this with Roux? You'd have to think he would have advised against it in the strongest terms. As Mr Jitty said earlier, most judges would be very unimpressed by such a move. And it gave Nel such an excellent opportunity to claim that OP will tell the world, but not the court. Classic own goal IMO.

I can't understand it because I can't see any advantage to him/them from it. People have pretty much made up their minds as to intruder or Reeva and OP talking more is unlikely to change that. All I can think of is they are delusional and that is not a satisfactory explanation really. What makes me think that is during the trial when Uncle A gave an interview and said he was looking forward to seeing Oscar in the Rio Olympics or words to that effect. It seemed so out of touch with the reality of the situation and that is one example of quite a few, Carl's tweets being another.

As I said earlier, downthread: "He's just thinking ahead to the damage control exercise, post-sentencing. He knows Oscar's going down, he just doesn't want it to affect "team Pistorius" and their numerous shady business dealings. They really are a contemptible bunch of self-serving shysters."

I really don't think they are deluded, I think they know what people's perceptions are and they deliberately antagonise them in so far as they are able. It's endemic to the family and why Karl and Oscar are the way they are. Toxic, pure poison.

 

[cottonweaver]

Re my post 70 (which I am unable to edit). I may have misinterpreted why Roux put Oscar on display. It may have had more to do with his ability on his stumps on the night of the murder whereas I took it to encourage pity for any future incarceration. Either way OP was most definitely faking it as we have all witnessed him almost running at his uncle's house. I don't know when the ITV film was shot but he looked fit enough in the photo trailing the programme.

I'm sure it's both.
the "leaked" video
[video=youtube;pIYaeJ-iiCI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIYaeJ-iiCI[/video]

 

[lithgow1]

I think we are all of us doing well to ignore & scroll as the moderators have advised . That sounds like class monitor -oh you know what I mean

I'm sure any new or very infrequent posters will get it too. So we should be able to stay open until the 6th of b----- July!
It better be perfect Masipa, if you're going to take 3 weeks on it.

BIB Yes I noticed that too and it is the best approach IMO. It only results in escalating circles that go nowhere except to closed threads. I missed being able to read and comment about the trial here over the past couple of months. I read the back and forth on Digital Spy and that is enough for me these days.