PA PA - Carol Dougherty, 9, Bristol, 22 Oct 1962

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by ScarlettScarpetta, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    I tried searching to see if I could find her here and could not. In searching for unsolved murders in Levittown, ( after Jason Smith was arrested)

    I found this

    http://missing87975.yuku.com/topic/2905#.UQMsnh1EGDk

    I have never heard if it before and wondered if anyone here had.

    I am kind of new so if I posted in the wrong place please help!!

    " Carol Ann Dougherty was raped and murdered in St. Mark's Church in Bristol Borough on Oct. 22, 1962. "
     
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  3. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hi, Pirplegrl. You posted in the right place. :thumb: You're right, there is no other thread for Carol Ann on WS.

    I'd not heard of this case, either. Google turned up several news links. Carol Ann suffered a horrible sexual assault and murder. :( Her father discovered her body on the stairs leading to the choir loft of St. Mark's Roman Catholic Church in Bristol, PA.

    From what I've read so far, the case involves a false confession, a variety of suspects, cryptic messages, and suspicions about a parish priest. It's hard to believe we missed this case.

    October 23, 1962
    Girl, 9, Slain by Strangler

    Other articles state her age as 10-years-old.

    October 23, 1962
    Reading man quizzed in death of Bristol girl, 10

    October 25, 1962
    Man admits rape-slaying of littlegirl

    October 27, 1962
    Release man after saying he killed girl

    A couple of early suspects:

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...7,6645738&dq=carol+ann+dougherty+murder&hl=en

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...1,7098233&dq=carol+ann+dougherty+murder&hl=en

    Additional links:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=ZU...a=X&ei=yz0DUfKwPJTa8wSnv4GoBQ&ved=0CHsQ6AEwDw

    Four page 1994 article here:

    Killing made town a different place

    More recent articles:

    http://www.bishop-accountability.or...yCourierTimes_HauntedBy_Joseph_Sabadish_1.htm

    http://articles.philly.com/1994-04-12/news/25864576_1_grand-jury-mystery-bike
     
  4. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    [​IMG]

    At the Down Town Club, he asked, “Tell me what you didn’t put in your story.”
    An intriguing question, I thought, and I told him about “12.”
    After the series ran, a note signed “12” arrived. The sender requested a meeting with me to reveal Carol Dougherty’s killer. The sender instructed me to acknowledge the note in a classified add in the newspaper. I did.
    A few days later, while I was at Mass at St. Mark’s, an envelope was left under the windshield wiper of my car. Inside the envelope was a paper with “12” on it. That’s all.
     
  5. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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  6. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    Just speculating. But I don't believe at the time the priest would have raped and murdered a young girl in his church and Ill say why I believe that for now. It stated she was dragged to the area she was found. With him being the priest there, she would have followed him willingly anywhere inside the church Iwould assume. Either the demon was already inside the church, or followed her inside after she got off her bike and went inside..
    One thing i did find interesting was later on her friends seen her bike and tried to go inside the church but it was locked. Which at the time seems to not have been the routine at that time of day....which they may have arrived at the church when the attack was occurring....With it being locked perhaps the demon had a key, if it took a key to lock the door from the inside?
     
  7. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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    I must admit, I thought the Demon was maybe another child/young adult because of the dragging and not carrying. The locking of the door, IMO would suggest somebody knowing where the key was kept or had the foresight to lock it (not something an adolescent might do)
    I tend to believe the old saying though 'no smoke without fire' and those links I posted are pretty dreadful reading.
    I've been looking for a reference to 12 via the Bible, maybe a person of cloth confessed to another person of cloth and they feel they can't directly reveal the content openly.

    We had a case over here where they managed to get DNA from the victim 60 years after she was burried. Unless somebody reveals what they know, DNA would be the only way forward.
     
  8. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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    Seems '12' plays a huge part in the Bible

    The twelve Apostles.

    The twelve foundations in the heavenly Jerusalem.

    The twelve gates.

    The twelve pearls.

    The twelve angels.

    Twelve is a perfect number, signifying perfection of government, or of governmental perfection. It is found as a multiple in all that has to do with rule. The sun which "rules" the day, and the moon and stars which "govern" the night, do so by their passage through the twelve signs of the Zodiac which completes the great circle of the heavens of 360 (12 x 30) degrees or divisions, and thus govern the year.

    Twelve is the product of 3 (the perfectly Divine and heavenly number) and 4 (the earthly, the number of what is material and organic).

    More here
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_significance_does_the_number_12_have_in_the_Bible
     
  9. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    Having access to the files from the day would help tremendously. Which we know wont happen.........That church is huge and Gothic looking which reminding me of phantom of the opera. I guess we could assume the 12 has something to do with religion since she was found in the church. If we had another clue if one was left would help to solidify that belief. This could be a at the wrong place at the wrong time, since one would have to know she was going to be there waiting on her. I would guess the demon was already inside the church when she went in. Someone whom knew at least part of the layout of the church. Don't suspect it would have been someone out of town just passing through and decided to stop at the church. Had a key to, may had been no one else inside at the time or not in the area there when you walk in. Love to see some crime scene photos taken that day, even just outside the church on how it looked that day.

    My posting in 5. Just wanted to clarify I assumed she was attacked and killed where she was found. It could be possible she was killed elsewhere inside the church, and dragged to the area she was found and left there.
    which the demon had some knowledge of the layout of the church.

    The day she was killed, was the same day Kennedy gave his Cuban missile crisis on national TV. Just posting as a tidbit and not something relevant.
     
  10. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    Do you mean what the church just looked like then from outside it particularly on that day?

    I can get a picture of it today. And there are many historic books about Bristol as it is an old town. Settled 1681. I may be able to find pictures of it from the fifties. Or find some one who remembers. My grandmothers family if from Bristol. She is 92. I'm going to ask her what she remembers about it when I see her tomorrow.
     
  11. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    Yes, on the day she was found. Any LEO photos from the day or any public photos taken from the day she was found would be wonderful. It captures the event in real time. It is very kind of you to offer your assistance.
     
  12. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    You have me wondering about any occult meaning to the number 12. I am going to search for any possible connection. The demon was not there to worship God. But his act poisoned the church that day, for lack of a better word. Committed a heinous act inside a house of worship.
     
  13. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    Maybe I'm just tired. But do any of these articles say where she was laid to rest?
     
  14. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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  15. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    My mom said that her cousins were still living in Bristol at the time if the murder. I'm going to see if I can get a hold of them to ask some questions about what they remember or talk in neighborhood.

    ETA: my mom just reminded me I was in this church.My nephew went to school there and that is the church we went to to watch his plays and events. I remember it now that she said it.

    It was almost 20 years ago that I was there. He's 25 now.

    ETAA: running out the door for church.
     
  16. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    I just talked to my grandmother. Who remembered it well. She said at the time her cousins lived there along with her Aunt and Uncle. She told me at the time her cousins said that people all "knew" it was the priest. My cousins were not catholic so they talked about it but She said that the catholics were afraid to.
     
  17. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    At the time, the priest would have appeared to be the likely suspect.
    Unless they had planned to meet at the church doesn't seem to be premeditated. So the priest would have to had made a decision quickly to do what had been done before she left after praying. This would be the first case of a catholic priest raping and murdering a child in there church that I can recall. As you go in through the door, would you have went forward towards a alter to kneel and pray?


    Ill read more about the priest, for now I have not read anything about him. His alibi, if he was there, where he was in the church at the time etc etc.

    Was she a member of this church?
    And this occurred on a Monday. So not many would have been inside at the time I assume.

    I am not convinced you needed a key at the time to lock the door from the inside. Some one could have been in there setting by the door when she came in, she went to the alter to kneel and pray and the demon got up and lock the door by sliding a bolt or something similar went to the alter where she was and grab her twisted her arm around her back his other hand on her mouth and dragged her to where she was found and raped and murdered her there.


     
  18. Robin Hood

    Robin Hood New Member

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    IIRC his alibi was visiting parishioners, when checked he hadn't been seen.

    Edited to add link

    http://www.phillyburbs.com/blogs/ne...2-4fcf-5197-9306-be0506fe9b72.html?mode=story


    Chief Faragalli turned his attention to Joseph Sabadish, a priest at St. Mark. Three parish priests were interviewed by police, and their alibis checked, but not Sabadish’s.

    His story about how he had been visiting parishioners at the time of Carol’s murder proved untrue, when the parishioners said he hadn’t been there.

    Also, within minutes of Carol’s murder, eyewitnesses said they saw Sabadish acting oddly on Mill Street, the town’s shopping district. Sabadish went into Popkin’s shoe store and asked the clerk for the time, which the clerk found odd since Sabadish was wearing a wristwatch with the correct time.

    <modsnip>
     
  19. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    Thank you for posting this.
    Usually if one creates an alibi they want to create one before or during when the crime was committed. And not after....Not long after the crime occurred he was spotted and talked with by two different businesses...I wondered if he may had found her before the father, and left the church instead of notifying police?...........He passed the polygraph. The police seemed certain he did it and snatched him off the street and took him to be wired for the test with several detectives standing by. As if they knew they had there man and they were determined to prove it once and for all. But he passed, so they let him go. Don't know why he said he was visiting parishioners if he was not. But doest mean he was raping and killing a ten year old girl instead as they suspected.

    The main suspects in this case seemed to have been cleared at one time or the other. Be nice to have some more of those clues that were left. If in fact they were left by someone whom knew whom the killer was. They did not claim to be the killer, just they knew whom the killer was. Could be just a joke , seems if they knew whom did this that information would be released by now.

    Unless the LEOs release the files on this case its going to be hard to come up with a different suspect. They interview hundreds pois.

    the girls found the door locked. Maybe the priest opened it when he left, and the father was able to enter not long after. But whom knows.
     
  20. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    I just came back from St Mark. Took a picture of the front as it faces Radcliffe st. I searched graveyard and could not find a grave for her there.

    Now you have to forgive me because I am novice. So if you point me in the right direction I am happy to search for more information. The Library is close and I could go there on tuesday and search for old newspaper info. ( do they still have that stuff on microfilm?) I am not sure what papers were local then so I will have to ask. At least I have a date to look for. The Bucks County Courier Times in right around the corner. I can call them and look for old articles maybe pictures?

    I am happy to do ground work but I am not sure where to start.
     
  21. :+:MrTT:+:

    :+:MrTT:+: Cold Case Files

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    Perhaps another member or moderator would be able to guide you in this area. I have no experience in doing what you are offering. My only experience has been to go to a site where one was reported last seen after becoming missing, and i took some pictures of the area to post on web-sleuths. ...HOPEFULLY, someone will read your offer and offer there assistance.
     

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