PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[Black Diamond]

She announced yesterday that she had been recovering from surgery and hoped to do a final podcast. She said she will provide evidence of RFG's murder.

Thanks for the update. I just read the post on the podcast’s FB page.

Sorry to hear that the host, I guess we aren’t supposed to mention her name, is having health problems. But, glad to hear she plans on finishing up with a final episode. If the podcast is going to actually prove Ray was murdered, it’s going to take something really big.

 

[Black Diamond]

Looking back on how this whole thing was handled, and without the benefit of superior knowledge that the BPD has, a lot of rule-outs and assumptions could benefit from a deep dive re-look. Mainly, throw out any alibis for the following people on 04/15/2005 and drill down into any possibility of their involvement, for any scenario of the disappearance. I have them in order of how likely I think it is that they could have been involved.

Patty F.
Emma G. (or whatever her last name is now)
Barbara P.
Mark S.
Steve S.
Barbara G.
Jerry S. (yeah yeah, its farfetched, but anything is possible)
Joe Pa (even more farfetched, but why not at least check ole JoePA's phone records and wherabouts around that time)
I'm sure some others could be added to the list.

 

[minazoe]

Looking back on how this whole thing was handled, and without the benefit of superior knowledge that the BPD has, a lot of rule-outs and assumptions could benefit from a deep dive re-look. Mainly, throw out any alibis for the following people on 04/15/2005 and drill down into any possibility of their involvement, for any scenario of the disappearance. I have them in order of how likely I think it is that they could have been involved.

Patty F.
Emma G. (or whatever her last name is now)
Barbara P.
Mark S.
Steve S.
Barbara G.
Jerry S. (yeah yeah, its farfetched, but anything is possible)
Joe Pa (even more farfetched, but why not at least check ole JoePA's phone records and wherabouts around that time)
I'm sure some others could be added to the list.

I have always had weird vibes about PF. Always..ask anyone around here...you just can't help but wonder...the whole morning before..and days leading up sound wrong...something was wrong..maybe Ray wanted to break up..
I don't know...she knew where he was going and it bothers me to this day. mOO

added..if you want to disappear..kill yourself..why tell people where you are going? any thoughts?

 

[Betty P]

added..if you want to disappear..kill yourself..why tell people where you are going? any thoughts?

You wouldn't. The whole part about Ray telling PF where he was going doesn't fit. Neither does being seen by so many people as he wandered around Lewisburg that day. Very unusual behavior for either scenario. JMO

Checking again on some of his co-workers and professional associates would also be a good idea.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Looking back on how this whole thing was handled, and without the benefit of superior knowledge that the BPD has, a lot of rule-outs and assumptions could benefit from a deep dive re-look. Mainly, throw out any alibis for the following people on 04/15/2005 and drill down into any possibility of their involvement, for any scenario of the disappearance. I have them in order of how likely I think it is that they could have been involved.

Patty F.
Emma G. (or whatever her last name is now)
Barbara P.
Mark S.
Steve S.
Barbara G.
Jerry S. (yeah yeah, its farfetched, but anything is possible)
Joe Pa (even more farfetched, but why not at least check ole JoePA's phone records and wherabouts around that time)
I'm sure some others could be added to the list.

Two people on this list are known.

PEF we know about from phone records, and work records from 8:00 AM until c.11:30 PM on 4/15/05. We also know that, on the afternoon of 4/15/05, Joe Paterno was at a football practice session on campus. He was photographed there.

 

[Black Diamond]

Two people on this list are known.

PEF we know about from phone records, and work records from 8:00 AM until c.11:30 PM on 4/15/05. We also know that, on the afternoon of 4/15/05, Joe Paterno was at a football practice session on campus. He was photographed there.

Yes but that does not rule them out of involvement. That’s why I said to dig in further, throw out the alibis and then start looking.

 

[Black Diamond]

I have always had weird vibes about PF. Always..ask anyone around here...you just can't help but wonder...the whole morning before..and days leading up sound wrong...something was wrong..maybe Ray wanted to break up..
I don't know...she knew where he was going and it bothers me to this day. mOO

added..if you want to disappear..kill yourself..why tell people where you are going? any thoughts?

Maybe she is a very good actress and is really hiding something. Maybe she never spoke to Ray on the phone that morning. Maybe she sent Ray to Lewisburg for some reason and had someone there waiting for him. Even if she had a solid alibi and “passed” a polygraph, you would believe she’s still gotta be the #1 suspect for police until evidence says otherwise.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes but that does not rule them out of involvement. That’s why I said to dig in further, throw out the alibis and then start looking.

They both have alibis. Involvement would involve someone else.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I have always had weird vibes about PF. Always..ask anyone around here...you just can't help but wonder...the whole morning before..and days leading up sound wrong...something was wrong..maybe Ray wanted to break up..
I don't know...she knew where he was going and it bothers me to this day. mOO

added..if you want to disappear..kill yourself..why tell people where you are going? any thoughts?

No, she did not.

PEF knew the general direction that RFG was heading and where he claimed he was when he made the call. She did not know where he planning to go that day.

 

[Black Diamond]

They both have alibis. Involvement would involve someone else.

Agreed. It takes two to conspire. Two makes a conspiracy. Even if Ray was one of the conspirators. I believe that the only way Ray’s disappearance wasn’t a conspiracy is suicide. “IMO” If he walked away, someone else helped him. If he was murdered, its highly unlikely by a lone actor orchestrating luring him into kidnapping, then to murder, and then doing a very good job of body disposal.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Today is the 18th anniversary of Ray Gricar's disappearance.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Agreed. It takes two to conspire. Two makes a conspiracy. Even if Ray was one of the conspirators. I believe that the only way Ray’s disappearance wasn’t a conspiracy is suicide. “IMO” If he walked away, someone else helped him. If he was murdered, its highly unlikely by a lone actor orchestrating luring him into kidnapping, then to murder, and then doing a very good job of body disposal.

If RFG walked away, I would not agree with the word, "conspirator." That implies that there was some underlying criminal act that they would have been covering up.

I think that if RFG did walk away, hed did likely have someone helping him, a "helper."

 

[Black Diamond]

If RFG walked away, I would not agree with the word, "conspirator." That implies that there was some underlying criminal act that they would have been covering up.

I think that if RFG did walk away, hed did likely have someone helping him,

Several criminal acts if he walked away. Theft of PF’s car keys, theft of county property, destruction of county property, littering, tax evasion on his 2005 taxes (assuming a return was not filed.) These are all unquestionable criminal acts. Other possibilities, though I don’t know what the actual charges would be called: vacating an elected office without proper resignation, interference with law enforcement, defrauding law enforcement, defrauding Centre County, many others I’m sure.

If he did walk away, it’s highly possible that he was doing it to cover up or run from some other crime(s).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Several criminal acts if he walked away. Theft of PF’s car keys, theft of county property, destruction of county property, littering, tax evasion on his 2005 taxes (assuming a return was not filed.) These are all unquestionable criminal acts. Other possibilities, though I don’t know what the actual charges would be called: vacating an elected office without proper resignation, interference with law enforcement, defrauding law enforcement, defrauding Centre County, many others I’m sure.

If he did walk away, it’s highly possible that he was doing it to cover up or run from some other crime(s).

Nothing other that a summary offense, if that. His taxes were filed. PEF gave him the keys and he was authorized to have the computer.

There was no "defrauding" or "failure to properly resign."

 

[ConundrumPonderer]

Today is the 18th anniversary of Ray Gricar's disappearance.

I think about Ray almost every day. This might sound stupid, but even more than his disappearance, what bothers me the most are negative or dismissive inferences without evidence. I firmly believe that a serving Prosecutor going missing without trace should be regarded as urgent and alarming, until the answer is known, even 18 years later.
I hope his daughter has whatever amount of personal peace possible in this situation.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here are my odds on what happened to Ray Gricar:

Walkaway: 71%
Suicide: 2%
Foul Play: 26%
Something Else: 1%

What has dropped is suicide; that is due to the lack of a body.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I did not see any press, so far, on the anniversary.

 

[Black Diamond]

Nothing other that a summary offense, if that. His taxes were filed. PEF gave him the keys and he was authorized to have the computer.

There was no "defrauding" or "failure to properly resign."

He did not return her keys. He did not return the laptop. Both instances are theft if he destroyed them willingly without returning them to their rightful owners.

So he filed a tax return for year 2005? He worked 3.5 months of 2005 before disappearing. That would have needed filed in Feb - April of 2006. Willingly going into hiding without filing a tax return.

Maybe someone can answer this - if you just abandon your elected seat willingly what kind of charges could you face, if any?

If Ray walked away, then he broke the law multiple ways in the process.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

He did not return her keys. He did not return the laptop. Both instances are theft if he destroyed them willingly without returning them to their rightful owners.

So he filed a tax return for year 2005? He worked 3.5 months of 2005 before disappearing. That would have needed filed in Feb - April of 2006. Willingly going into hiding without filing a tax return.

Maybe someone can answer this - if you just abandon your elected seat willingly what kind of charges could you face, if any?

If Ray walked away, then he broke the law multiple ways in the process.

His daughter filed it.

Either is theft.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Maybe someone can answer this - if you just abandon your elected seat willingly what kind of charges could you face, if any?

Snipped for emphasis.

None. Often times people just decide to stop attending meeting or doing their job as an elected official; they also move. They can be removed, in several different ways, but it is not criminal.

The sole legal violation, which may be summary offense, is destruction of government property. That could be remedies by reimbursing the County for a used laptop that was out of date by 2005. I estimate the cost to be less than $200.00.

It is not illegal to walk away from your life. It would be to flee to avoid prosecution or possibly to run out on debts, but nothing else.