GUILTY PA - Jennifer Daugherty, 30, Held Captive, Tortured To Death, Greensburg, 11 Feb 2010 *appeal 2022 denied*

[daisy7]

I don't see that use of disparaging language - "crazy, bonkers, nutz" - when referring to the mentally challenged is in any way helpful to the discussion of justice for Jennifer Daugherty, who might well, in her life, have suffered from being called these same words.

Great post!

What Do You Call People with Disabilities?

Friends, neighbors, coworkers, dad, grandma, Joe's sister, my big brother, our cousin, Mrs. Schneider, George, husband, wife, colleague, employee, boss, reporter, driver, dancer, mechanic, lawyer, judge, student, educator, home owner, renter, man, woman, adult, child, partner, participant, member, voter, citizen, amigo or any other word you would use for a person.

People First Language

People First Language recognizes that individuals with disabilities are - first and foremost - people. It emphasizes each person's value, individuality, dignity and capabilities. The following examples provide guidance on what terms to use and which ones are inappropriate when talking or writing about people with disabilities.

(snip)

http://www.txddc.state.tx.us/resources/publications/pfanguage.asp

 

[songline]

I guess when a person is killing you it hurts less if you call them "mentally disabled, mentally challenged, mentally ill">?

Sorry I can't see why these people were even out in society..especially "Her companion, 23-year-old Ricky V. Smyrnes, had been accused of beating his mother, his ex-wife and an ex-girlfriend."

Jennifer herself seems to have needed more help/supervision than was given

as I said...I had an uncle like this...and I am alive today and my family lived...he didn't molest me (he did do a couple dangerous things, twirl me around, etc, disrupt family thanksgiving dinner)...but we were not all killed at the Thanksgiving dinner like we see cases here

my grandparents were able to call the "men in the white coats" and take him away...I had the stigma of knowing I had a "crazy" uncle as we called it then...and didn't tell people that yeah he was usually in one of the 2 well known mental hospitals where we lived

he died in one of them...prematurely...chirrosis and heart problems and whatever caused by his erratic lifestyle

but he was not allowed out to harm people..yeah I am sorry for him but happy for me and the rest of my family and anyone else he might have harmed. From what I remember he had gotten worse over the years...more violent...and while they didn't have all these "meds" back then I am sure he would have been like others today and refused to take them

Calling it nice names doesn't change the outcome...maybe we need to get more "proactive" here...stop the tea and sympathy

My other uncle was diabetic in fact...so was my grandmother..if they didn't take their meds they would hurt themselves...these people?? they hurt others

and this group?? IMHO from their past actions many of them shouldn't have been out on the street....mental hospital or jail or prison or prison for the criminally insane

Jennifer probably should have had more protection and supervision herself. Oh my...how mean of me...yeah mean but sensible.

Most people do not know what it is like to live with imbalance. I DO.
Sorry for your personal experience it could not have been easy for a child to deal with.
I agree 150% that many of them need t be put in some safe house where they cant harm anyone and be monitored properly.

While I do it myself, (scream out nuts and crazy) I do think it is a little different when we speak of those with disabilities, again you are right that changing our language will not help them, but neither is insulting them. because people like Jennifer who was the victim does not deserve our insult.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Oh ok...I changed the words to "WHATEVER"...SO PLEASE REMOVE YOUR COPY PASTE

I guess pretty soon we can call murder "life deprived"....


that sounds "nicer" and won't offend anyone

when a person with a "disability" is tying one up with stolen christmas lights and making one drink urine and beating one to death I guess one calls them "friend"..."dancer"..."mechanic"

ok

meanwhile...the fact is that it is hard to keep society safe from some of it's members or keep those members of society safe from themselves...and putting a nice name on it does not change the fact

I am still wondering why the one guy was out walking around when he is known to be mentally ill and beat up his mother, girlfriend etc??

 

[songline]

Oh ok...I changed the words to "WHATEVER"...SO PLEASE REMOVE YOUR COPY PASTE

I guess pretty soon we can call murder "life deprived"....


that sounds "nicer" and won't offend anyone

when a person with a "disability" is tying one up with stolen christmas lights and making one drink urine and beating one to death I guess one calls them "friend"..."dancer"..."mechanic"
ok

meanwhile...the fact is that it is hard to keep society safe from some of it's members or keep those members of society safe from themselves...and putting a nice name on it does not change the fact

I am still wondering why the one guy was out walking around when he is known to be mentally ill and beat up his mother, girlfriend etc??

LOL...(love your humor) BBM - No.... but Jennifer in this case deserves some dignity, she was imbalance too.

the others are "F" ing nuts and I am not interested if they change their med, or analyze them till the cows come home...
They are nuts and need to be restrained in a proper place for nuts.

As for the one who had a record - Another LE= overworked, Mental hospital= Overcrowded BS
I think it is a question of miss allocated money GOLDMAN SACHS GOT IT....... the mental Hospitals don't want them, so they set them loose in the street.

 

[mayelf]

Speculation from reading the myspace pages and the news reports.

It sounds like Smyrnes was the leader in this horrific act.

Mr. Knight and Ms. Meidinger, it appears they were engaged and both have "expecting" in their myspace pages. I wonder if they had a baby together or if Meidinger is still pregnant.

And then Masters and Millers are expecting as well, as seen on myspace as well, and they were staying with the group.

And Ms. Marinucci used to date Smyrnes.

 

[songline]

Logical Mind no he was not your responsibility, and the authorities don't want to deal with it.
I have read here in NY when the mental hospital fillies up they let them out in the street, because of budget...:waitasec:
But the country has plenty of money for the Goldman Sachs and J.P Morgans, and AIG...etc....:doh:
I do not understand.:waitasec:

 

[Missizzy]

Do you guys have any idea how challenging it is to even get a young woman with an IQ of 50 or 60 on Depo Provera or any other birth control--not to mention preserve their personal safety? This is a terribly slippery slope and the place where I've chosen to live my life. We have decided, as a society, to give those with mental illness and developmental disabilities power and choice over their lives and therefore we must live with the consequences.

If one of my daughters becomes pregnant, I can't make a decision for her concerning termination of a pregnancy or adoption or raising a child. If my daughter chooses to have a boyfriend, does this mean that she can consent.....or not? I'm confused and I live this life. I'm certain you all must be confused and conflicted too.

Two of my girls have the mental capacity of a 6-8 year old. They are both in their twenties. Both are beautiful young women. One is a delightful, kind and helpful member of our community who works in a restaurant with a job coach--a "good girl". Can she consent to have a boyfriend? What boyfriend? Does he have to be of the same IQ? She goes to the Easter Seals Dances. Can she kiss? Can she consent to have sexual relations? Can we legislate that?

So, my next girl--she's got a 63 IQ. Is her pimp complicit in trafficking her? She turns, by her estimation 20 tricks per day and has numerous STDs. Does she have the right to make these decisions to break the law herself? What part do I play and you play in her "right" to do as she wishes. We had the foresight (thank you, God) to encourage her to have an Implanon device implanted exactly 2 1/2 years ago. They last 3 years. Then what?

I'd honestly like some answers here as this effects my life on a daily basis as I'm sure it does the victim and the perpetrators in this particular case. This is not an abstract that I can turn away from. This is my life.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Respectfully snipped

I'd honestly like some answers here as this effects my life on a daily basis as I'm sure it does the victim and the perpetrators in this particular case. This is not an abstract that I can turn away from. This is my life.

(((hugs)))....so many hard choices....

I do try to post on the "spotlight" forum so I am not so "off topic"...I like to think about solutions rather than just be part of a "wailing wall" which is what I feel like sometimes, so many sad cases

A CALL TO ACTION! Take 3 minutes to change how we find the missing. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I have a couple threads on "social service" overhaul, etc...so we could talk about that there....or start new threads

back on topic for this thread....sad to think of the babies born to these "couples"

and yeah, hindsight is great but I still wonder why this ringleader wasn't in jail or prison....??

 

[Pensfan]

The city of Greensburg rolled out the red carpet for all of the psychiatrically ill because they allowed all the huge, downtown Victorian homes to be subdivided into 5 or 6 apartments. These became slum apartments and are rented for $300/month. Housing inspectors should have shut these slum apartments down. Ordinances should have been established to prevent the "slumming" of this downtown area. When you put many mentally disabled/emotionally disturbed people together in one part of town without supervision, very bad things occur like Jennifer's murder.

May God have mercy on the other residents of this area and for Jennifer's family and friends.

 

[believe09]

I am pondering MissIzzy's words as I try to figure out what Ms. Jennifer was doing so much on her own...I am not criticizing her family because I do not know what the story is, but this girl had been struggling, had just lost her lease and was keeping some company that made her uncomfortable herself if we can believe any of Mr. Cathcarts words.

 

[Salem]

Hey everyone - just a reminder to attack the post and not the poster.

Also - please post with sensitivity to the fact that issues with mental health touch us ALL on a daily basis. You may state your opinion, ideas on how to change things (or take that to the Spotlight Forum), just do it with a thought that this touches us all, please.

And no name calling - not even of the perps in this case, because it spills over onto the innocents.

Thanks,

Salem

If you have any questions - then send me a message - don't post them on the thread.

 

[mysticrose]

Sorry if this has been posted I am a little behind.


How slaying victim came to know her attackers
Sunday, February 14, 2010
By Sadie Gurman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


In the days before she was held captive and killed, Jennifer Daugherty resisted the sexual advances of a man who now faces homicide and other charges in her death, the man's former roommate said Saturday.

Ms. Daugherty didn't like Ricky Smyrnes, but he would "force her to do things with him," said Robert Cathcart, who on Tuesday moved out of the apartment in Greensburg where investigators believe she was abused and killed.

"He was being a bully toward her," said Mr. Cathcart, 19, who described Ms. Daugherty as his best friend. Mr. Smyrnes wanted to have sex with her, Mr. Cathcart said, but "she wouldn't let it happen."

Police said Ms. Daugherty's relationship with Mr. Smyrnes is a thread they're following as they investigate her killing last week and the tangled relationships of the six people now accused of holding her against her will and torturing her from Tuesday to Thursday



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10045/1035865-59.stm#ixzz0fdLsMext

 

[Salem]

I am pondering MissIzzy's words as I try to figure out what Ms. Jennifer was doing so much on her own...I am not criticizing her family because I do not know what the story is, but this girl had been struggling, had just lost her lease and was keeping some company that made her uncomfortable herself if we can believe any of Mr. Cathcarts words.

I don't know, believe - but I do know, that generally speaking, what every parent wants for their child is for their child to lead a safe and productive life. To enjoy some independence and to be happy.

I also know it is a problem getting children to tell when they are having trouble. Even non-challenged kids don't always tell when they are being bullied until things have escalated to a point where they come home with some obvious, physical evidence and the parents sit them down and talk to them about what is going. Often times, the parent is shocked to find out that the child has been bullied for months. This is also true of abused children - they often do not talk and disclose the abuse until it is obvious to others and they are questioned.

I don't know what happened here - but I speculate that Jennifer made some new friends and she wanted to keep them. By the time the bullying got to be too much and she might have told her parents or others, it was too late. I'm not blaming the victim here. I can see how she wanted to be independent, have friends, enjoy her life. I can picture her, happy and trusting and never suspecting that these perps would actually hurt her like they did. I am so sad for her.

Salem

 

[Amster]

This is horrific...and, more so because I think these accused will get off with a little treatment time and a promise to take their meds. Which, of course, they won't. But, they do have rights and cannot be forced to take them.

 

[songline]

Do you guys have any idea how challenging it is to even get a young woman with an IQ of 50 or 60 on Depo Provera or any other birth control--not to mention preserve their personal safety? This is a terribly slippery slope and the place where I've chosen to live my life. We have decided, as a society, to give those with mental illness and developmental disabilities power and choice over their lives and therefore we must live with the consequences.

If one of my daughters becomes pregnant, I can't make a decision for her concerning termination of a pregnancy or adoption or raising a child. If my daughter chooses to have a boyfriend, does this mean that she can consent.....or not? I'm confused and I live this life. I'm certain you all must be confused and conflicted too.

Two of my girls have the mental capacity of a 6-8 year old. They are both in their twenties. Both are beautiful young women. One is a delightful, kind and helpful member of our community who works in a restaurant with a job coach--a "good girl". Can she consent to have a boyfriend? What boyfriend? Does he have to be of the same IQ? She goes to the Easter Seals Dances. Can she kiss? Can she consent to have sexual relations? Can we legislate that?

So, my next girl--she's got a 63 IQ. Is her pimp complicit in trafficking her? She turns, by her estimation 20 tricks per day and has numerous STDs. Does she have the right to make these decisions to break the law herself? What part do I play and you play in her "right" to do as she wishes. We had the foresight (thank you, God) to encourage her to have an Implanon device implanted exactly 2 1/2 years ago. They last 3 years. Then what?

I'd honestly like some answers here as this effects my life on a daily basis as I'm sure it does the victim and the perpetrators in this particular case. This is not an abstract that I can turn away from. This is my life.

I am so sorry ((((( HUGS ))))) dont know what to say.

 

[laura08]

According to court and newspaper reports, Meidinger was 4 years old when her mother, Flora Meidinger tried to sell her to some neighbors for money to pay bills, the Trib reported.

According to police, Meidinger was in a relationship with Melvin Knight and the couple is expecting a child together. The pair allegedly stole Daugherty's phone and changed the voice mail, telling callers they'd reached Melvin, Amber and Julia's phone. Julia is the name of their unborn daughter.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/22570985/detail.html

Friends and Family remember Jennifer

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/westmoreland/s_667243.html

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

According to court and newspaper reports, Meidinger was 4 years old when her mother, Flora Meidinger tried to sell her to some neighbors for money to pay bills, the Trib reported.

According to police, Meidinger was in a relationship with Melvin Knight and the couple is expecting a child together. The pair allegedly stole Daugherty's phone and changed the voice mail, telling callers they'd reached Melvin, Amber and Julia's phone. Julia is the name of their unborn daughter.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/22570985/detail.html

Friends and Family remember Jennifer

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/westmoreland/s_667243.html

Odd.....Beacuse according to Darlene Miller and Robert Master's myspace pages, they too were expecting a child. So, Amer and Melvin are couple and Darlene Miller and Robert L Masters are a couple, and both expecting!

 

[Pensfan]

To save the almighty dollar, many psychiatric facilities/clinics have been closed and counselors dismissed because supposedly “new, improved treatments” for the psychiatrically ill have been created. One of these treatments is a “psych patients helping psych patients” concept called psychosocial rehab clubhouses. (This is where Jennifer met the 6 individuals that killed her. It is called West Place Clubhouse.) In these clubhouses, paid for by your tax dollars, those with mental retardation and the psychiatrically ill are intermixed- a dangerous mistake. These two groups are supposed to assist each other along with a limited number of community members. There are zero therapists, physicians, or nurses encouraged to be involved. The mentally disabled and psychiatrically disabled are supposed to find jobs, a social life, and rehab with these clubs. Sounds great, doesn’t it until reality occurs.

The psychiatrically ill must have continuous supervision and continuous encouragement to take their medications. Most psychiatric illness are chronic and organic. Many are never healed and need treatment for life. All citizens need to pay attention to their community psychiatric hospitals/clinics because when these are closed or their funding is limited, psych patients are infrequently monitored. This is a contributing factor to Jennifer’s torture and death.

 

[MomofBoys]

As much as I said "What was this woman doing out unsupervised?" when I first read this story, I can't really fault the family too much. I would imagine that even when a child has a disability, it'd be tempting to allow them a little freedom and cling to every bit of hope for a normal life. For them. Every parent wants their child to make friends and have positive social interaction--and the family couldn't have had any clue this was to happen.

It's beyond horrible. I get the concept of groupthink, but it does seem like I've read more of these stories in the last five years. It's certainly not a new phenomenon; people who went to view people thrown to the lions did it in the comfort of knowing there were thousands around them. But targeting the young or the disabled always seems particularly heinous.

Then again, someone mentioned the Holocaust and how right they are. The stories of German soldiers who were actually proactive in trying to free/rescue those doomed, or just flee are suprisingly few. Only difference is that a lot of them were afraid for their own lives. In these situations--they're just sick in a way that's hard to contemplate.

 

[Texas Mist]

To save the almighty dollar, many psychiatric facilities/clinics have been closed and counselors dismissed because supposedly “new, improved treatments” for the psychiatrically ill have been created. One of these treatments is a “psych patients helping psych patients” concept called psychosocial rehab clubhouses. (This is where Jennifer met the 6 individuals that killed her. It is called West Place Clubhouse.) In these clubhouses, paid for by your tax dollars, those with mental retardation and the psychiatrically ill are intermixed- a dangerous mistake. These two groups are supposed to assist each other along with a limited number of community members. There are zero therapists, physicians, or nurses encouraged to be involved. The mentally disabled and psychiatrically disabled are supposed to find jobs, a social life, and rehab with these clubs. Sounds great, doesn’t it until reality occurs.

The psychiatrically ill must have continuous supervision and continuous encouragement to take their medications. Most psychiatric illness are chronic and organic. Many are never healed and need treatment for life. All citizens need to pay attention to their community psychiatric hospitals/clinics because when these are closed or their funding is limited, psych patients are infrequently monitored. This is a contributing factor to Jennifer’s torture and death.

That grand idea sounds like one thought up by a madman....and supported by the same!