PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[shadow of my mind]

The idea of him walking away just to be able to leave his daughter a big chunk of change does not set well with me either.

Possibly, yes he may have done a walk away for something that he may have gone to prison for, but there has been absolutely nothing that has even remotely suggested any type of criminal activity.

For him to have been able to put enough money away to finance his own disappearance and live on for 20 +years, leave funds in the form of a pension, live his life as the DA and appear that he was doing nothing out of the ordinary, he would have had to have started this plan when he first moved to PA.

I guess anything is possible, but then why would he have been so into his work, putting in full time hours while being paid part time and expending so much effort to make the DA a full time position and then building his team from the bottom up to make that office what it was. He could have just gone and worked for another attorney, made a lot more money that no one would even look at as being suspicious, not been in the public eye and would have not been surrounded by so many professionals who are trained to notice behavior that could have accidently “outed” what he was planning.

If he did walk away (and I am not even remotely convinced that is what happened) it would, in my opinion, have to have been something that very recently came about and it was just pure happenstance, and by virtue of how the laws are written regarding pensions, that he would be able to make it so his daughter would get his.

That basically brings us back to the same old question …. What could have happen that was so potentially devastating to RG that he would choose to disappear and never see his family again.

 

[JaimeSommers]

JMO but I think the smoker is involved in whatever happened to RFG. My opinion fluctuates. No body to me means no suicide. I just don't see him leaving behind a pension to live the rest of his life on some savings with the hope that it would last. Unless, whatever he was leaving for was lucrative in and of itself. Was he paid to leave? Or did he leave for a wealthy woman?

I fluctuate between suicide and homicide regularly ... but, when I'm thinking suicide, I tend to believe that the ashes came from a final cigarette (or two). Really doesn't matter if he didn't smoke -- he could have smoked when he was young and quit and wanted one more taste, or wanted to calm his nerves. My dad started smoking when he was a teenager, but quit for me when I was 8 and he was 48.

 

[Cherry]

What is sandusky's Alibi.for that day and night?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That basically brings us back to the same old question …. What could have happen that was so potentially devastating to RG that he would choose to disappear and never see his family again.

Snipped a bit.

You can ask the same question about his behavior. For at least five weeks prior to his disappearance, he was behaving oddly. The people who noticed it were not always people that had daily contact with him, but PEF and JKA both were. He was "tired" according to the first, and "distraught" according to the second. The others described him as being out of it, unfocused, actually staring out the window during a meeting.

i don't think they are all lying or wrong.

I'd almost say suicide, but for the difficulty of hiding your own body after committing suicide.

 

[JaimeSommers]

Snipped a bit.

You can ask the same question about his behavior. For at least five weeks prior to his disappearance, he was behaving oddly. The people who noticed it were not always people that had daily contact with him, but PEF and JKA both were. He was "tired" according to the first, and "distraught" according to the second. The others described him as being out of it, unfocused, actually staring out the window during a meeting.

i don't think they are all lying or wrong.

I'd almost say suicide, but for the difficulty of hiding your own body after committing suicide.

BBM ... If he committed suicide, then I feel it's fair to speculate that he may have intentionally waded to the section of the river that is densely packed with thickets and very difficult to search and did it there to spare his family from finding his body. I know that area well and it's not so busy that he couldn't have waded unnoticed.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BBM ... If he committed suicide, then I feel it's fair to speculate that he may have intentionally waded to the section of the river that is densely packed with thickets and very difficult to search and did it there to spare his family from finding his body. I know that area well and it's not so busy that he couldn't have waded unnoticed.

The river was fairly high on 4/15-4/16, and swift. The search of it was possibly the greatest search ever conducted on that part of the Susquehanna. They did multiple searches, via air, boat and divers; they even used a cadaver dog out on a boat. There was also increased activity, kayak rentals, probably due to the reward.


To top it off 4/16 was the first day of fishing season.

 

[MissJ]

We can ask the same about his divorce or his brother's suicide, in regard to an absence. For me, it was quite surprising that RFG's daughter "appearance" at the hearing to declare him dead was via telephone. I was shocked, but for some people, and I would assume for her, it was not something she wanted to do. Would I have done that? No. Was I RFG's child who was living 2000 miles away? No. She did things differently that I would, but that doesn't make her a bad person.

Money did matter to him; maybe as a way of keeping score. He had for years tried to get the DA's Office declared full time, even when the Commissioners offered him additional staff so he wouldn't have to work as much. He did that within the first six weeks of taking office. At the time, he was married to Barbara Gray, and she was making about twice as much as he was. He didn't need the money. His arguments with Emma were over her spending, even though he was full time at that point and she was working at least part time.

Well I do believe money mattered to him. So much so that I do not see him walking away from a pension. His daughter was grown. :moo:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well I do believe money mattered to him. So much so that I do not see him walking away from a pension. His daughter was grown. :moo:

That would depend on two things:

A. How much money?

B. If out there, could RFG access it?

 

[PPKik]

There may have been a lot of money out there. That estate was worth less than $25 K.

The pension, that was not of the estate, was high. I could understand any parent thinking that their prime duty was to provide for their child, financially. RFG did do that, and did it in such a way that he handed her a tax break.

Sorry for asking a question that was probably discussed years ago, but did RFG's pension go to his daughter? I didn't know a pension could go to anyone, but someone you are married to.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Sorry for asking a question that was probably discussed years ago, but did RFG's pension go to his daughter? I didn't know a pension could go to anyone, but someone you are married to.

He could set it up so it would go to whomever he designated. I have heard some things where PEF got some of it as well.

I have also heard that the pension payout was substantially larger that what has been suggested.

LG, in her administrator filing indicated that he had insurance, because she needed to make premium payments. As he was missing, she did not have to pay for his driver's or health insurance.

I think it is fair to say that RFG left his loved ones well off, whatever happened to him.

While i have not seen it here, a few people have commented that RFG would have to be a "cad" if he vanished, or committed suicide. A man, with $1500 in the bank, who leaves his wife and baby to **go out for a pack of cigarettes** and never returns, is a cad. A man who vanishes, leaves voluntarily or commits suicide, leaving his adult loved ones six digits, at least, is no cad.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What is sandusky's Alibi.for that day and night?

The only person that I was able to trace was Paterno. He was at practice on the afternoon of 4/15/05.

I would question why Sandusky would kill the man who did not prosecute him.

 

[JaimeSommers]

The river was fairly high on 4/15-4/16, and swift. The search of it was possibly the greatest search ever conducted on that part of the Susquehanna. They did multiple searches, via air, boat and divers; they even used a cadaver dog out on a boat. There was also increased activity, kayak rentals, probably due to the reward.


To top it off 4/16 was the first day of fishing season.

Yes, but I'm talking about April 15, and the area I'm talking about would not be an area from which people would fish on the 16th. A cadaver dog on a boat wouldn't be helpful, nor would kayaks. It's an area of densely covered land on the river, not the river itself. I am trying to find the news footage from 2005 of the area to which I'm referring. I have seen it while in Lewisburg, but am having trouble describing it. There was speculation at the time that, were he to have killed himself there, it would be difficult to find him because of the terrain.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, but I'm talking about April 15, and the area I'm talking about would not be an area from which people would fish on the 16th. A cadaver dog on a boat wouldn't be helpful, nor would kayaks. It's an area of densely covered land on the river, not the river itself. I am trying to find the news footage from 2005 of the area to which I'm referring. I have seen it while in Lewisburg, but am having trouble describing it. There was speculation at the time that, were he to have killed himself there, it would be difficult to find him because of the terrain.

With respect, the dog should have detected RFG's remains if in the water or on the banks. The banks were also searched, by ground and air.

Across from Lewisburg is the Montandon Wetlands. I do not have a record of that being searched. It is less than a mile by foot from where the Mini was found.

 

[MissJ]

The only person that I was able to trace was Paterno. He was at practice on the afternoon of 4/15/05.

I would question why Sandusky would kill the man who did not prosecute him.

Maybe because RFG knew something or suspected something and was going to reconsider prosecution. Maybe that was what was on his mind (RFG) that had been troubling him. After all he would soon be leaving office to retire. Maybe he wanted to leave with a clear conscience. Sandusky had a lot to lose. JMO.

As far as leaving his loved ones well off.....what does that matter? SO he could go off and live the rest of his life missing his daughter, her kids, PEF and their life. Why? So he could wander around wherever watching his nickles and dimes. If he loved money I don't see it. I'm sure he loved his daughter but she was an adult who did not need his financial help. Sounds like he was selfish about money or had been in his past. These kinds of people don't impoverish themselves to give a large bequest to their child while still living. I've never heard of anyone doing that. Ever. JMO. I can see the first scenario however. MOO

 

[BigCat]

He could set it up so it would go to whomever he designated. I have heard some things where PEF got some of it as well.

I have also heard that the pension payout was substantially larger that what has been suggested.

LG, in her administrator filing indicated that he had insurance, because she needed to make premium payments. As he was missing, she did not have to pay for his driver's or health insurance.

I think it is fair to say that RFG left his loved ones well off, whatever happened to him.

While i have not seen it here, a few people have commented that RFG would have to be a "cad" if he vanished, or committed suicide. A man, with $1500 in the bank, who leaves his wife and baby to **go out for a pack of cigarettes** and never returns, is a cad. A man who vanishes, leaves voluntarily or commits suicide, leaving his adult loved ones six digits, at least, is no cad.

What do you call a woman, with $1500 in the bank, who leaves her husband and child to "go out for a pack of cigarettes" and never returns?

Answer: an anomaly.

I once watched an episode of 20/20 about women who had voluntarily given up custody of their children. I'll never forget one particular woman whose defense was (I paraphrase) "I'm not a bad parent; just think of me as a divorced dad."

Men often disappear from the lives of their children. It happens. Sometimes completely, sometimes more subtly. There is little doubt in my mind RFG could have walked away (and, no, I don't think it would make him a "cad").

 

[MissJ]

JMO, if he walked away I'm thinking he may be surprised at how much he misses the people he left behind. I'm fairly certain no amount of money makes up for the loss PEF and RFG's daughter feel.

 

[BigCat]

Maybe because RFG knew something or suspected something and was going to reconsider prosecution. Maybe that was what was on his mind (RFG) that had been troubling him. After all he would soon be leaving office to retire. Maybe he wanted to leave with a clear conscience. Sandusky had a lot to lose. JMO.

As far as leaving his loved ones well off.....what does that matter? SO he could go off and live the rest of his life missing his daughter, her kids, PEF and their life. Why? So he could wander around wherever watching his nickles and dimes. If he loved money I don't see it. I'm sure he loved his daughter but she was an adult who did not need his financial help. Sounds like he was selfish about money or had been in his past. These kinds of people don't impoverish themselves to give a large bequest to their child while still living. I've never heard of anyone doing that. Ever. JMO. I can see the first scenario however. MOO

What good is money if he had to live with being known as "The Prosecutor Who Failed to Prosecute Sandusky" for the rest of his life? (http://deadspin.com/5857966/the-mystery-of-ray-gricar-the-prosecutor-who-failed-to-prosecute-jerry-sandusky-and-who-might-be-dead) Would he want to face his loved ones with that kind of shame hanging over his head? You suggest that that may have been troubling him before hie disappeared, and I agree that's a real possibility. But while it does provide a possible motive for foul play, it also provides a possible motive for walking away.

JMO

 

[Hbgchick]

The only person that I was able to trace was Paterno. He was at practice on the afternoon of 4/15/05.

I would question why Sandusky would kill the man who did not prosecute him.

It would surprise me greatly if Sandusky personally killed RFG. Sandusky isn't the sharpest tool in the drawer, the possibility that he got RFG in a position to murder him and then exhibited the presence of mind to hide/bury the body is ludicrous.

 

[JaimeSommers]

With respect, the dog should have detected RFG's remains if in the water or on the banks. The banks were also searched, by ground and air.

Across from Lewisburg is the Montandon Wetlands. I do not have a record of that being searched. It is less than a mile by foot from where the Mini was found.

With respect, as I've said, I'm not talking about the banks or the river. I am talking about the Wetlands, but couldn't remember what it was called. It wasn't searched and the dogs wouldn't have alerted there. Good lord.

 

[JaimeSommers]

It would surprise me greatly if Sandusky personally killed RFG. Sandusky isn't the sharpest tool in the drawer, the possibility that he got RFG in a position to murder him and then exhibited the presence of mind to hide/bury the body is ludicrous.

Sandusky is a coward. He doesn't put his hands on adults who can fight back.