PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #13

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped



But in this case I wouldn't say J.J.'s perspective is limited. It's my impression that J.J. shares many demographic similarities with RFG. He can correct me if I'm wrong. I have a little interest in discussing RFG's pension, but I acknowledge that if J.J. has put that much thought into RFG's pension, then certainly RFG put as much thought in it, if not more.

Personally, I don't see the a man approaching retirement age running off with a woman, abandoning his identity and sacrificing his life savings. Unless, there was something hanging over his head. In which case, the woman is incidental to the primary reason for his disappearance.

JMO

I am approaching his age and while I don't have nearly the same money, I'm in the retirement system.

Money was an issue with him, even if it was being paid for what he thought he was worth. The accomplishment in office that gave him the greatest pride was making the job full time (and nearly doubling his salary in the process). He had that fight with EG over the furniture, but he was making more that $108 K them, and EG was working as well. BG would have been making more than $100 K as well, so it wasn't Lara's bills.

His financial situation is, bluntly, not what you would expect for a guy planning to retire.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Latching onto a comment upthread about RFG "would love to put one over on LE". Is there any indication that there was any adversarial relationship between various LE departments and RFG?

Business-like. I have actually talked to people who either were police in cases he prosecuted or talked with them.

RFG did have a long term dispute with the county over making the job full time. I've heard that the reason he resign from the PDAA was that they would not support a resolution he proposed to make the job full time. It was a ten year battle

Tossing something out, could he have had a grudge against the county and could that have been a motive?

 

[MissJ]

Okay, I am playing Devil's Advocate here, but if we are talking about another woman, she could be a murderess.

RFG was acting oddly. What if he wanted to break up with her? That could cause that. Perhaps it was a lovers' quarrel.

It is possible especially if she was someone he met on the internet and she was in charge or knew how to access hidden money. IMO

 

[MissJ]

It is in the FBI file; they missed a redaction.

Ok, I must have missed it as well. Thanks.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It is possible especially if she was someone he met on the internet and she was in charge or knew how to access hidden money. IMO

I was actually thinking about someone with a criminal background/criminal association. That would explain why he would keep it on the down low.

 

[Trackergd]

Business-like. I have actually talked to people who either were police in cases he prosecuted or talked with them.

RFG did have a long term dispute with the county over making the job full time. I've heard that the reason he resign from the PDAA was that they would not support a resolution he proposed to make the job full time. It was a ten year battle

Tossing something out, could he have had a grudge against the county and could that have been a motive?

What would have been the gain for RFG in going missing as vindication against the county?

Going missing and creating a nightmare missing person case for PSP might, since the State Police Commissioner was PSU Alumni (like most of the state and my boss....). The State Police Commissioner would also be someone with the power to exert pressure to "make a problem go away".

I could see vindication in creating a headline missing person case in retaliation for being "forced" to ignore the elephant in the room. When the assurances that the issue would be dealt with did not pan out, RFG may have realized the cat was out of the bag and every "tick and tittle" would be investigated.

 

[MissJ]

I was actually thinking about someone with a criminal background/criminal association. That would explain why he would keep it on the down low.

Good point. He would want to do that.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What would have been the gain for RFG in going missing as vindication against the county?

Going missing and creating a nightmare missing person case for PSP might, since the State Police Commissioner was PSU Alumni (like most of the state and my boss....). The State Police Commissioner would also be someone with the power to exert pressure to "make a problem go away".

I could see vindication in creating a headline missing person case in retaliation for being "forced" to ignore the elephant in the room. When the assurances that the issue would be dealt with did not pan out, RFG may have realized the cat was out of the bag and every "tick and tittle" would be investigated.

Except it wasn't being handled by the PSP. Bellefonte would not give it up and, at the time, there was no pressure from the DA to move it. There was outside pressure, but it failed to do anything. http://www.centredaily.com/2009/09/16/2396685/the-investigation-part-13-mr-madeira.html

 

[BigCat]

First, I would like to thank everyone for having a lively, thought provoking, and civil discussion.



Roughly 50% of the electorate in Centre County either goes to, went to, works at, or is retired from, Penn State. That excludes the relatives of those people that don't fit into those categories, people who make money indirectly from the university or students, and football fans.

I don't know if they'd need more leverage than that.

If Sandusky had been the Chairman of the English Department, would there have been any political fallout from prosecuting him? I don't believe so.

College football is a religion. Not just in Central PA either. I'm a devotee myself. I grew up in a college town with a big-time football program.

I would go so far as to say Sandusky belonged to the inner circle of a cult. That's the analogy I would us to convey what RFG was up against. No one needed to bribe him to avoid that fight. IMO

Earlier this thread, you stated that RFG's salary was doubled to over $100,000 a year at some point in his tenure. If he wasn't re-elected in 2001, what were his job prospects like in Centre County? I imagine it would have been difficult to find another position that paid a comparable salary.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If Sandusky had been the Chairman of the English Department, would there have been any political fallout from prosecuting him? I don't believe so.

College football is a religion. Not just in Central PA either. I'm a devotee myself. I grew up in a college town with a big-time football program.

I would go so far as to say Sandusky belonged to the inner circle of a cult. That's the analogy I would us to convey what RFG was up against. No one needed to bribe him to avoid that fight. IMO

Earlier this thread, you stated that RFG's salary was doubled to over $100,000 a year at some point in his tenure. If he wasn't re-elected in 2001, what were his job prospects like in Centre County? I imagine it would have been difficult to find another position that paid a comparable salary.

He'd have had 20 years with the county in December 2000. His term wouldn't expire until 12/01. I'd suspect it was quite good. Some people raised a stink about JKA not getting her 20 years so she could qualify for a full county pension.

I am honestly not sure about his pension, if any, from Cleveland. In some plans it could be rolled over.

As for going into private practice, he never wanted to. RFG got his PA law license about six months prior to being hired by the DA in 1980. He never went into private practice. When the position was part time, 1986-96, RFG could have had an outside practice. He never did. BB actually tried to get him interested in doing disability cases in retirement; it is fairly lucrative and not overly complex. He wouldn't consider it.

In other words, I doubt if he needed a job in retirement in 2001 and I'd doubt if he would have wanted one.

All of that doesn't answer the question of why RFG wouldn't prosecute 4 years later, into his planned last term.

 

[Pink Panther]

I'm so impressed with you J.J. I check in from time-to-time. For years now, you've been campaigning to find Ray. If Ray is alive, I hope he tips his hat to you eventually in some way that you will know!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm so impressed with you J.J. I check in from time-to-time. For years now, you've been campaigning to find Ray. If Ray is alive, I hope he tips his hat to you eventually in some way that you will know!

Thanks. I hope to have a blog up this weekend which will touch on some of the issues BigCat raised. That is by coincidence.

My only concern is what happened to Ray Gricar. If it is determined that he walked away, I will not be looking for him.

 

[Pink Panther]

Thanks. I hope to have a blog up this weekend which will touch on some of the issues BigCat raised. That is by coincidence.

My only concern is what happened to Ray Gricar. If it is determined that he walked away, I will not be looking for him.

All the more reason to state that if he is alive, I hope he tips his hat to you!

 

[Trackergd]

One of the things I have experienced over the years when cases I have been involved with were solved, is how far I was off with my assumptions.

So borrowing J.J's "Devils Advocate" hat for a moment.... What do each of you think is the most improbable reason RFG would have gone missing?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

One of the things I have experienced over the years when cases I have been involved with were solved, is how far I was off with my assumptions.

So borrowing J.J's "Devils Advocate" hat for a moment.... What do each of you think is the most improbable reason RFG would have gone missing?

Here are few, and I'm leaving out the Illuminati plot involving George H W Bush someone wrote me about:

1. RFG was a CIA agent who retired overseas.

2. RFG was a Russian agent who was called home.

3. It wasn't really RFG in Lewisburg; he was murdered the day before and it was a lookalike, someone wearing a Gricar mask, or his animated corpse. (That is different than questioning if there really was a Mystery Woman with him in Lewisburg.)

4. RFG was murdered along the way to Lewisburg and it was a lookalike, someone wearing a Gricar mask, or his animated corpse seen in Lewisburg.

5. "Ray-is-gay-'cause-he-drove-a-Mini," and ran off with a male lover.

 

[SeekingJana]

One of the things I have experienced over the years when cases I have been involved with were solved, is how far I was off with my assumptions.

So borrowing J.J's "Devils Advocate" hat for a moment.... What do each of you think is the most improbable reason RFG would have gone missing?

I don't think I can top J.J.'s list, LOL, but you did ask " what do each of you think" which is very nice of you to include all of us who care so much about this case, . So here's some the theories I've seen promoted on the Internet over the years:

1) Dead on the 14th, Patty and someone else plotted and then committed murder. Her accomplice drove the car to Lewisburg. She lied about the juice and so forth the AM of the 15th and the phone call to the courthouse. Apparently to buy time.
Motive was money. Alternate theory, he was going to leave her so she had him killed. Totally without merit.
2) Head injury was sustained in Lewisburg. He has had amnesia for 9 years. ( But can live in society in some way and no one sees the missing man?)
3) PSU had him killed because of Sandusky. They dug a shallow grave at a cabin in the woods ( there is a homemade video of some dirt and a small hole- it's a soil sample study done by PSU geological students) but never buried anyone... The geology study was a cover- up story. ( Think " Blair Witch Project" video here).
4) He was murdered by the Hell's Angels. RME.
5) His friend, S.S., killed him in a drug- fueled rage. ( His friend's drug use consisted of drugs which cause people to be less animated, not more but this is ignored).

Most of this comes from people who also speculate about :abduction: and things of that nature, so obviously I do not believe a word of it.. or any other wacky theory.
IMO,the simplest answer is likely to be the correct one. There is no evidence of harm, no body, no signs of struggle, so he's likely alive.

 

[shadow of my mind]

#1.That he became interested in another woman, who was part of an active criminal organization, and he left his life to be with her.

#2. He realized that he had bungled saving for retirement and now he would not have enough money to be able to travel with PF so he committed suicide.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

New blog up looking at RFG's finances from 1979-96: http://www.centredaily.com/2014/09/...money-part-2-1979-96.html?sp=/99/236/704/694/

Some of the things BigCat raised are mentioned.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm snipping this for humor purposes

1) Dead on the 14th, Patty and someone else plotted and then committed murder. Her accomplice drove the car to Lewisburg. She lied about the juice and so forth the AM of the 15th and the phone call to the courthouse. Apparently to buy time.
Motive was money. Alternate theory, he was going to leave her so she had him killed. Totally without merit.

One variant was that was PEF's brother, impersonating him. He's at least 15 years younger, 4-6 inches shorter, dark complexion, an on 4/18/05 he had a thick mustache. I'm figuring on Caesar Romero make-up as the Joker on the 1960's Batman TV series and stilts.

5) His friend, S.S., killed him in a drug- fueled rage. ( His friend's drug use consisted of drugs which cause people to be less animated, not more but this is ignored).

SPS was about 300 pounds, 6'2" - 6'4", and completely bald. He was badly injured at the time and could barely get to Lewisburg to be interviewed. I'm picturing him trying to stealthily move around Lewisburg and having to stop because he got the munchies.

Most of this comes from people who also speculate about :abduction: and things of that nature, so obviously I do not believe a word of it.. or any other wacky theory.
IMO,the simplest answer is likely to be the correct one. There is no evidence of harm, no body, no signs of struggle, so he's likely alive.

One "theory" involved getting into the UFO with Elvis.

Some of the conspiracy theories were even way out there.

My favorite was "J. J. is really Ray Gricar."

 

[MissJ]

Most improbable to me is that he left for no reason other than to give his daughter his pension while it was at its greatest value.