PA PA - White Haven, 'Beth Doe' & Unborn Baby 169UFPA, 16-22, Dec'76 - #2

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by Cubby, Dec 16, 2010.

  1. Mingsmom

    Mingsmom Moonchild

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  2. Mingsmom

    Mingsmom Moonchild

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  3. Mingsmom

    Mingsmom Moonchild

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    All I want to say - she was a trafficked kid. And identifying her will be problematic. Like "A Beautiful Child"
     
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  4. Sweetluv

    Sweetluv Active Member

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    Not only is the act of dismembering to hinder identification, but makes it more transportable, such as the suitcases.
     
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  5. Sweetluv

    Sweetluv Active Member

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    Someone didnt want her to deliver that baby....
    Shooting her in the neck puzzles me....seems like an (odd) choice.
     
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  6. Mrs. Badcrumble

    Mrs. Badcrumble The North remembers

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    Wonder if it was done to make sure she was dead. Strangling someone is hard, I've heard; the victim often just loses consciousness instead, so the perp might have shot her just in case.
     
  7. WyomingSkyAngel

    WyomingSkyAngel Rocky Mountain Fresh

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    It's depressing to consider but the state of her teeth indicates whoever she was depending on wasn't planning on keeping her around. The old wive's tale is that a woman loses a tooth per pregnancy.....I'm sure she was aware of how her pregnancy was taxing her body. Of course she had much bigger worries than dental health, considering the end she and her baby came to......

    Additional thought- if the killer(s) plan had worked properly and the suitcases HAD ended up in the water, the water and decomposition process would have made getting any identifying info off her remains much harder. To me that points to a possibility that Beth Doe DID have some social habits that would have left people wondering what happened to her and her baby. (Maybe frequenting a store, or visiting a church or park.)
     
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  8. Justice4bethdoe

    Justice4bethdoe New Member

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    I am currently talking to someone on Facebook who believes Beth Doe was her foster sister that went missing in 1973. She said last contact was June 1976 when she called her asking for money. She was scared and pregnant. The woman she believes could be Beth Doe was named Madelyn Cruz. She said that she met her at an alternative school and then she was taken in for a few months. I believe this may be a good lead. Maybe Isotope testing was wrong. She hasn't been able to locate Madelyn. I gave her the number of the detective in PA and she has been in contact with her.
     
  9. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth;
    The O blood type (usually resulting from the absence of both A and B alleles) is very common around the world. About 63% of humans share it. Type O is particularly high in frequency among the indigenous populations of Central and South America, where it approaches 100%. It also is relatively high among Australian Aborigines and in Western Europe (especially in populations with Celtic ancestors). The lowest frequency of O is found in Eastern Europe and Central Asia, where B is common.
     
  10. Mrs. Badcrumble

    Mrs. Badcrumble The North remembers

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    Intriguing, indeed. Please post updates if you can! If it turns out that Madelyn is not Beth Doe, she might just be another Doe instead.

    As for the isotopes, I wouldn't rely solely on them; they have turned out to be quite inaccurate for many UIDs lately.

    As for Madelyn: I know way too little about her and her case, but I came to think of DeVernon LeGrand and his "church" in Brooklyn, NYC, nevertheless. AFAIK, several of his (and his sons') alleged victims have yet to be found.
     
  11. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    First that i have heard of this perp, wondering about potential other victims of his who have yet to be discovered or identified.
    The rumoured dismemberment of some of his followers certainly makes one wonder about Beth Doe, although one might expect that her unborn baby would not be white- but then who knows?
    There is mention of a girl who was olive-skinned and could pass as Italian, apparently bringing in more cash for that reason, might Beth Doe have been used for the same reason?
    speculation, imo. rbbm.
    From link..

    "Church members Gladys Stewart, 16, and her sister Yvonne, 18, had testified for the prosecution in LeGrand's bribery trial, but they were missing when the D.A. sought to use their testimony in the later rape case. Informants said the girls were dead, dismembered in the Brooklyn "church," with their remains transported to the Catskills for disposal. State police dug up the ranch in mid-December 1975, but they came away empty-handed.


    Three months later, on March 6, assorted bones and bits of cartilage were found in Briscoe Lake, and Brooklyn raiding parties turned up human bloodstains in the Crown Heights townhouse."
    "Every morning, LeGrand's phony nuns would pile into his Cadillac and he would drop them off at locations across the city. One fake sister, Vivian Roye, "was olive-skinned and passed as Italian -- she did very well on Mulberry Street," recalled former Brooklyn prosecutor Harold Rosenbaum. "
     
  12. Mrs. Badcrumble

    Mrs. Badcrumble The North remembers

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    LeGrand was mentioned briefly in one of the first posts in the first Beth Doe thread way back in 2005, but it went nowhere. LeGrand himself was locked up by the time she was murdered, but his sons carried on with the "business", so to speak, so there is a possibility they could be involved in her murder. Who knows?

    Credit where credit's due: I had never heard about him myself until @madamx brought it to my attention. FYI, she also has far more information on the matter than I have. I am honestly surprised LeGrand and his cult doesn't have his own WS thread in the Serial Killer forum, because there seems to be many missing girls, women, and dead bodies in their path.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  13. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Well-Known Member

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    upload_2019-4-22_14-0-18.png

    It has nothing to do with Beth immediately, but there is a creepy likeness IMO. The name Cronin is originally from Ireland.
     
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  14. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Mary Cronin would have been 10 when Beth Doe was murdered, if I did my arithmetic correctly. Was she asking too many questions about what happened to her mother/older sister?
     
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  15. Mingsmom

    Mingsmom Moonchild

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    DeVernon Legrand could explain the New York newspaper when Beth Doe was found
     
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  16. Mingsmom

    Mingsmom Moonchild

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  17. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Well-Known Member

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    Came across this picture but I don't have access to the info (from Europe....sigh)
     

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  18. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Well-Known Member

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    I totally see Legrand killing everybody going against him...also dismembering was his "thing" it seems.....but why take the body to PA? He fathered 46 children...one more wouldn't be that of a strange thing....just can't get my head around this...A lot of people went missing in his so called "care", I despise him, that's for sure....and I really want Beth identified and her killer caught if still possible.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  19. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    For a second got excited at the name on the bus- "WHITE SULPHUR SPRINGS" thought at first the initials were WSR, ie "WHITE SULPHUR RESORT" unless the camp also goes by that name? speculation, fwiw, imo.

    DeVernon LeGrand | Photos | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

    [​IMG]

    This photo shows the school bus, apparently used to transport children to camp and now sits idle.
    (Photo Date: 03/13/1976 / Credit: New York Daily News)
    ETA Correct spelling, SULPHUR SPRINGS not SURPLUS!
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  20. Bit of hope

    Bit of hope Well-Known Member

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    What the H@@@ does white surplus mean anyway......huhhhhh.....
     
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