Pageant Kids: A Rant

gaia said:
Watched a "special" on TV some time ago about child beauty pageants and it was very absorbing. Can't, for the life of me, remember the name of it now, but I'm sure some of you have seen it. It's been on several times, actually. I think I saw it on HBO, but also on A&E and maybe PBS, but just can't really remember now. At any rate, I saw a lot of unhappy little girls. They were tired and "over it" and just wanted to go to sleep or quit trying to remember what to say or stop having to do the dance steps. I saw this with several little girls. Now, there were older girls, probably in their early teens, who seemed to be "into" the pageants, so I have less problem with what I saw about them...except to say they looked very much like street-walkers to me...when they had on their pageant "look". I was kinda horrified!

I was struck by how many of the fathers were really participating with the mothers. They drove them to the pageants...especially when they were out of town, and sat there in the hotel room going through the routines and making suggestions. Many of these families did not appear to be wealthy at all, so this was costing them in rather important ways. If there was another child in the family, he/she was kinda in the corner while the "star" was catered to.

I saw little girls crying, being "threatened" by mom, and tired. I saw mothers barely able to sit in their seats, mouthing all the songs and mimicking the dance, while also looking like they were going to "die" before the judging was completed. I saw mothers looking like the world was over when their daughter lost. It just wasn't pretty. Yes, I did see the opposite, but not very much. There were some fairly happy kids and mothers, but most of the time it seemed to be because they won!

Just thinking about what I saw makes me wonder if there wasn't something else these families could have done with their time together that would have been so much more enriching than these pageants.

Just my opinion based on what I saw. I know there are those of you on here who feel the opposite about this and are sensitive to this subject. I'm not trying to pick fights or hurt feelings, so I apologize in advance if that's what I've done.

gaia:cool:
I don't think you need to apologize. Being in these pageants is perhaps what has a child sitting in a corner on Christmas day feeling glum because she is worried that "she doesn't feel pretty." Enough said, as far as THIS case is concerned.

I don't want to pick fights either but I resent being told that my objections to these pageants stem from jealousy that my kids can't do this or that by people who know nothing about other people's kids and their accomplishments nor the parents for that matter.

JMO but what I consider to be an educated one.

Edited to add: It's true that most of these kids seem unhappy. IMO these are cases of mothers living their own fantasies through their kids and encouraging female traditions which have done little to advance the happiness of women
 
I'm not surprised that Patsy thought to give her daughter a life-sized replica doll of JB, dressed in similar pageant clothing. And I'm not surprised that JonBenet didn't much care for the idea. This is treating children as life-sized dolls and they don't really look like they are "having a ball".

JMO
 
You're right. No child who has ever been in a pageant liked it. And every child who competes in sports absolutely loves every minute of it. Because I can find pictures to prove both! I just have to make sure I leave out the pictures of the kid in a baseball uniform who isn't smiling and include every picture of a bored child who's getting ready for a pageant.

Making general declarations based on a biased photo essay is so helpful!
 
I find it disturbing that JonBenet was buried in one of her pageant dresses and wearing a tiara. Did the Ramsey's lose their six year old daughter, or did they lose the little beauty queen?
 
Hyatt said:
Geez Openminded1! Why do you keep on comparing these pageants with examples of precocious children playing Bach and reading Shakespeare etc. before other kids the same age and then harping on the so-called "jealousy" of others whose children aren't as brilliant as others? IMO, perhaps you keep on returning to the assumption of competition in the minds of those who have a problem with these pageants because the entire pageant thing is about competition at a very early age so maybe there is some projection going on here. But frankly not all parents of exceptionnaly talented children foster in them the idea that excellence is a matter of rank and of winners and losers. And I'm willing to bet that none of them channel that precocious talent (I mean REAL talent) into miniature replicas of adult cattle shows.

Competition is the only word that links your examples to these pageants because other than that, parading around in the costumes mommy has seen fit to stick a child into - some more innappropriate, tacky and provocative than others - is a highly dubious definition of "talented" - no matter how much money or time has gone into it.

JMO
Talent is talent. These little girls who get into the beauty pageants and win are truly talented little girls. You are the one who thinks the outfits are wrong. I see worse outfits being sold at Target and Old Navy. Regardelss, you can not stick a little girl, no matter if she is the prettiest girl in the world, in the most expensive dress money can buy and expect her to win. It takes talent. The fact that you don't think so is merely your opinion. My opinion is different.

I have to compare this with something I know, and exceptional children is something I know. I would compare it with sports, but I'm not in those circles, so maybe a parent who has a young child that plays competative sports could chime in on that regard. The closest I can come is chess, where there is indeed a ranking system. There is a #1 player and a #21 player, etc, and stalemates in the Kindergarten division are very rare- so there is a winner and a loser.
 
It's not just JB's Vegas dress. Have you seen the video of her actions during the pageants? They are not normal eye or mouth actions for a 6 year old - rather suggestive.
 
What are they suggesting? They're just stupid, cheesy little looks all pageant little girls give when they're modeling an outfit. A six-year old cannot give sexy or suggestive looks.
 
Trino said:
It's not just JB's Vegas dress. Have you seen the video of her actions during the pageants? They are not normal eye or mouth actions for a 6 year old - rather suggestive.
I have not seen all of the videos, I'm sure. I can see where some of the pro-am moves I saw could be considered inapropriate by some. There are many reasons I wouldn't let my child do these pageants (even though she has begged) and all the pro-am stuff is one of them. I can see, however, how some people would think the pro-am stuff is cute. It's all a matter of opinion.
 
...all of the respected professionals in the child development field talk about how inappropriate and manipulative these pageants are, and the incredible dysfunction of the parents who put their kids into these things...
 
cappuccina said:
...all of the repsected profesisonals in the child development field talk about how inappropriate and manipulative these pageants are, and the incredible dysfunction of the parents who put their kids into these things...
ALL!?!?!? Really! ALL of them!?!?!?! I went back to school to study child development before and during the time I was pregnant with my dd, and I know for a fact ALL respected child development professionals do not agree on much of anything! Some think competition is good for kids, some bad. No, not everyone in the child development field agrees.
 
....experts would agree on that...this is not appropriate competition; it is based on having no skill whatsoever...Tell me that having a competition for kids based on the physicial charateristics you entered this world with augmented by a bunch of rabid, cheerleading stage mothers is appropriate competition for kids....a spelling bee or a baseball game is a bit more appropriate...The kids are actually DOING something...

From:

http://life.familyeducation.com/emotional-development/girls-self-esteem/41305.html

...snippet...
..."The long-standing and current overwhelming opinion in the psychology community concerning children's beauty pageants is that they are not in the best interests of healthy child development. There is enough undue, exaggerated focus on superficial beauty in this culture without children being pitted against each other in a contest of looks. I have heard all the arguments defending these contests and they all appear to be self-serving defenses with no apparent regard to the considerable body of research that demonstrates why they are harmful to kids. I know that people say, "There are other things they're judged on besides their looks; it teaches them poise, it gives them confidence." But the hard fact remains they are called BEAUTY pageants and they have been and always will be based on using arbitrary standards of "beauty" to make one contestant better than all the rest..."
 
openminded1 said:
ALL!?!?!? Really! ALL of them!?!?!?! I went back to school to study child development before and during the time I was pregnant with my dd, and I know for a fact ALL respected child development professionals do not agree on much of anything! Some think competition is good for kids, some bad. No, not everyone in the child development field agrees.
Well as the poster you are replying to goes on to state, there is a difference between healthy competition and these pageants. I wonder if you can quote me ONE single expert who states that these child beauty pagents are good for kids.

JMO
 
cappuccina said:
....experts would agree on that...this is not appropriate competition; it is based on having no skill whatsoever...Tell me that having a competition for kids based on the physicial charateristics you entered this world with augmented by a bunch of rabid, cheerleading stage mothers is appropriate competition for kids....a spelling bee or a baseball game is a bit more appropriate...The kids are actually DOING something...
Have you ever been to a pageant? I know one kid personally who competes in them, and she spends a lot of time preparing and practicing. There is skill involved. It's not about who shows up looking the best, for sure. Just like Miss America- the prettiest girl doesn't always win.

I do agree that there are better venues for a child to compete in, but that is just my opinion.

Edited to add:
http://www.oslc.org/inthenews/bfart1.html
Child psychologists and other professionals disagree on whether pageants -- in the news since the murder of 6-year-old pageant veteran JonBenet Ramsey in Boulder, Colo. -- are positive for girls like Michelle.

In reading this article, it looks like the professionals disagree much like the people on this board. Again, it is a matter of opinion.

I could probably find links to refute most things that are presented on familyeducation.com
 
cappuccina said:
....experts would agree on that...this is not appropriate competition; it is based on having no skill whatsoever...Tell me that having a competition for kids based on the physicial charateristics you entered this world with augmented by a bunch of rabid, cheerleading stage mothers is appropriate competition for kids....a spelling bee or a baseball game is a bit more appropriate...The kids are actually DOING something...

From:

http://life.familyeducation.com/emotional-development/girls-self-esteem/41305.html

...snippet...
..."The long-standing and current overwhelming opinion in the psychology community concerning children's beauty pageants is that they are not in the best interests of healthy child development. There is enough undue, exaggerated focus on superficial beauty in this culture without children being pitted against each other in a contest of looks. I have heard all the arguments defending these contests and they all appear to be self-serving defenses with no apparent regard to the considerable body of research that demonstrates why they are harmful to kids. I know that people say, "There are other things they're judged on besides their looks; it teaches them poise, it gives them confidence." But the hard fact remains they are called BEAUTY pageants and they have been and always will be based on using arbitrary standards of "beauty" to make one contestant better than all the rest..."
Very timely post and quote. Even the winners of these things, though they may jump for joy at the time, probably for the most part go on to acquire all sorts of issues with lack of self-esteem and I would wager that they need constant reaffirmation of their value as human beings.

And LoneDuck: It just so happens that these pictures posted on the link do show kids not looking very pleased. Most of them seem to be of the same child and so since some adult had to put them on the net, I wonder if she actually sees what so many saw right away: the displeased look of the child. However, I have no doubt that some children MAY actually like a good deal of the process but to that I would say: parents can and do shape their children to like highly problematic things.

Up until JonBenet's death hit all the media circuits, Patsy probably never questioned those pageants. The world's reaction should have been a wake-up call to all those who push these things to at least examine what they are doing beyond this "fun and games" attitude. Many people feel that it was precisely those pagents which made this story so big since, sadly, missing and/or murdered children is a far too frequent occurrence.

JMO
 
celia said:
Take a look at this photo on a pageant site & tell me it isnt wrong, in so many ways....
http://www.ak47.tv/009/beauty_pageants/
Why would the parents of this child allow this pic on the internet?
I can only imagine (with a shudder) how many creepy men have copied it....their twisted little minds would be convincing themselves that the makeup (especially on her lips) are proving she "wants it".......
For me this pic is the epitome of wrongness...to the point I think her parents should be charged with child abuse!

NOTE: for some reason,the link doesnt immediately bring up the picture I am talking about....click thru to the 4th pic...it has 09 at the top...the topless pic...
All of those photos and I only saw ONE smiling child. That's uncool.
 
dingo said:
Im sorry MistyM.....but I can not agree with the middle part of your post at all....normal men do not get "tingly" over a six year old..:snooty: ..and I hope the normal men posting here will set you straight as well.
Im a female and I find your post very degrading to any normal male.
I'm with you, dingo. No normal male would get aroused at a 6-year-old no matter how she was dressed.
 
openminded1 said:
Have you ever been to a pageant? I know one kid personally who competes in them, and she spends a lot of time preparing and practicing. There is skill involved. It's not about who shows up looking the best, for sure. Just like Miss America- the prettiest girl doesn't always win.

I do agree that there are better venues for a child to compete in, but that is just my opinion.

Edited to add:
http://www.oslc.org/inthenews/bfart1.html
Child psychologists and other professionals disagree on whether pageants -- in the news since the murder of 6-year-old pageant veteran JonBenet Ramsey in Boulder, Colo. -- are positive for girls like Michelle.

In reading this article, it looks like the professionals disagree much like the people on this board. Again, it is a matter of opinion.

I could probably find links to refute most things that are presented on familyeducation.com
But you will note that all of them condemn the child pagents related to THIS case and they all caution against "too much". So I would ask what is "too much" and I would wager that most parents who are into this sort of thing, don't just stop at one. My guess is that parents are probably either into this or not. And if they are, I wonder how many stop short of "too much". Furthermore, the things that are highlighted by these "experts" are the talent performances.

But I want to clarify that I totally agree with the experts quoted from familyeducation.com and that I think that any participation in these things is ultimately harmful to the child's psyche even this side of "too much", should that actually exist.

JMO
 
southcitymom said:
I'm with you, dingo. No normal male would get aroused at a 6-year-old no matter how she was dressed.
Thankyou Southcity mom......Im pleased someone has agreed with me..I thought that post no 37 would bring more comments than it has.
 
cappuccina said:
...all of the respected professionals in the child development field talk about how inappropriate and manipulative these pageants are, and the incredible dysfunction of the parents who put their kids into these things...
Well I happen to agree with you. I believe that these are manifestations of dysfunctional behaviour. And furthermore, I happen to think that it was family dysfunctionalism that killed JonBenet. Beyond that, when people ask "Why the lies and the cover-ups?" my theory is precisely that when this family dysfunctionalism became deadly, the parents did NOT want ANYBODY - NOT LE, NOT THE MEDIA, NOT PSYCHOLOGICAL EXPERTS, snooping around in the general dysfunctional family dynamics out of which her death had sprung. They lied and covered up because they were ashamed of the behaviour of someone in their midst and, if there were any "deer caught in the headlights", they proceeded to cover up because they feared reproach through association.

If you look at the Andrea Yates case, a great deal of criticism has been targeted at Rusty, .... and justifiably so.

JMO
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
186
Guests online
2,465
Total visitors
2,651

Forum statistics

Threads
594,280
Messages
18,001,760
Members
229,358
Latest member
thelittlebunny
Back
Top