POI - Dale Golder - #2

[Jules71]

She walks from her home with her brother and friends to a friend's house

Has anyone heard who all made the walk over to MK's? Who all was at the video store just prior? I guess I was under the impression for some reason it was just LB, JB, and MK. I do remember tho reading about someone walking her part way home. Then I later read MK watched her as far as she could see her. I think it would be helpful to know if she left MK's alone or with someone.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

ChuckMaureen super post by the way !
I really don't think this was planned. What I do believe is that this person did know Lindsey's movement's..exp..Knowing she walked back and forth frequently from her friends home probally because she walked by this area. I think this person by chance came upon her walking along and took advantage of the situation.
One of the main things that sticks out for me with DaleG is his comment made to his friend about " Lindsey being kidnapped and dismembered " well before LE even had reported that they believed she had been kidnapped. Also the fact that his cell phone use changed from the norm that night..to me those two things stick out like a sore thumb...JMO of course

MYSTICROSE: The 'Lindsay being kidnapped and dismembered' paraphrase quote is attributed (by whom, I am not sure) to having been reported by the local's girl-friend, that the local said that to her while discussing the case. It is claimed (in another blog) the girl-friend denied reporting the statement. Yes, the local's cell phone usage behavior change is significant but not condemning, although the reported time line of communications seems quite relevant given the juxtaposition of some time points.

 

[Jules71]

I really think the area around where she was last seen needs to be searched again and again - especially after reading the stats I previously posted about distance:

A unique pattern of distance relationships exists in child abduction murders. The initial contact site is within 1/4 mile of the victim's last known location in 80% of cases. Conversely, the distance between the initial contact site and the murder site increases to distances greater than 1/4 mile (54%). The distance from the murder site to the body recovery site again decreases, to less than 200 feet in 72 percent of cases.

 

[Knox]

Great info Jules, can you map that for us?

 

[mysticrose]

MYSTICROSE: The 'Lindsay being kidnapped and dismembered' paraphrase quote is attributed (by whom, I am not sure) to having been reported by the local's girl-friend, that the local said that to her while discussing the case. It is claimed (in another blog) the girl-friend denied reporting the statement. Yes, the local's cell phone usage behavior change is significant but not condemning, although the reported time line of communications seems quite relevant given the juxtaposition of some time points.

I will have to look for a link but I was sure it was reported to LE from her and then later she is recanting.

 

[Jules71]

I will have to look for a link but I was sure it was reported to LE from her and then later she is recanting.

That is what I thought also just in reading the affidavit for the sw.

 

[scandi]

MYSTICROSE: The 'Lindsay being kidnapped and dismembered' paraphrase quote is attributed (by whom, I am not sure) to having been reported by the local's girl-friend, that the local said that to her while discussing the case. It is claimed (in another blog) the girl-friend denied reporting the statement. Yes, the local's cell phone usage behavior change is significant but not condemning, although the reported time line of communications seems quite relevant given the juxtaposition of some time points.

I read in another blog that Dale learned this from someone who was in jail at the time.

I do not believe that Dale is not involved or LE would never have made such a big deal of the search of his parent's property. And then after they reclaimed the POI status for him {LE strategy IMO}, for an investigator/LE spokesman to be quoted in the paper as saying SS 'to believe he is not a POI could be an exaggeration', tells the tale for me!

I also always wonder about people who change their statements in a criminal case and wonder what their motivation is.


PS: I'm sorry, need to go back and find that quote. ;}

 

[Knox]

MYSTICROSE: The 'Lindsay being kidnapped and dismembered' paraphrase quote is attributed (by whom, I am not sure) to having been reported by the local's girl-friend, that the local said that to her while discussing the case. It is claimed (in another blog) the girl-friend denied reporting the statement. Yes, the local's cell phone usage behavior change is significant but not condemning, although the reported time line of communications seems quite relevant given the juxtaposition of some time points.

"Golder told her he could not believe that a girl had been taken and cut up and dismembered. It should be noted that the media and investigators did not believe Baum was the victim of a crime until the week following her disappearance (June 29 to July 3-4, 2009). It was initially believed she might be a run-away or had been injured and unable to get help. Stephani described Golder as being “over the top” and obsessively talking about Baum and what had happened to her; specifically that he believed she has been kidnapped and murdered. Stephanie said that he became less obsessed as July wore on."

Snipped from:Affidavit-Sept 25 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[scandi]

"Golder told her he could not believe that a girl had been taken and cut up and dismembered. It should be noted that the media and investigators did not believe Baum was the victim of a crime until the week following her disappearance (June 29 to July 3-4, 2009). It was initially believed she might be a run-away or had been injured and unable to get help. Stephani described Golder as being “over the top” and obsessively talking about Baum and what had happened to her; specifically that he believed she has been kidnapped and murdered. Stephanie said that he became less obsessed as July wore on."

Snipped from:Affidavit-Sept 25 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thanks Knox, That was a snap response for retreiving a quote and you are 'on it'!

Why would this GF say this and then change her tune? Being a part of the Affidavit I would think the investigators would have confirmed this with her as to what Dale said exactly to the word, right? KRAMS


PS: I almost take that as a quote in reverse by her the way it is stated. It might be interesting to discover who the person in jail was who told this to Dale. Iit would have to be a friend, right?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

But Elizabeth Olten's case seems to mirror that of a missing 10-year-old Washington girl named Lindsey Baum. Lindsey Baum was walking home from a friend's house -- a distance of about about a quarter mile or so -- when she disappeared in late June. Police have reported that at least one witness saw the girl walking home, but a surveillance camera at a local gas station she would have passed showed no image of her.

Another girl has gone missing, on Oct 21, 2009, in St. Martin, Missouri. The news article quote, above, indicates a similarity to Lindsey's disappearance in that Elizabeth, too, was walking home from a friend's house when she disappeared. I'm including this story here because it confirms police reporting there are no images of Lindsey on surveillance camera recordings.

Elizabeth Olten is Missing: 9-Year-Old Missouri Girl Disappears Walking Home

No, I am not suggesting the cases are related, just being informative. Too many children are seemingly not properly informed and protected ... this is a sad state of affair.

 

[Knox]

Thanks Knox, That was a snap response for retreiving a quote and you are 'on it'!

Why would this GF say this and then change her tune? Being a part of the Affidavit I would think the investigators would have confirmed this with her as to what Dale said exactly to the word, right? KRAMS


PS: I almost take that as a quote in reverse by her the way it is stated. It might be interesting to discover who the person in jail was who told this to Dale. Iit would have to be a friend, right?

Curious Scandi, what was DG in jail for? I had not heard this before, thx.
As for Calica's motivation in telling about Dale's reaction to Lindsey's disappearance and supposedly what happened to her ... I think Calica spoke the truth to investigators, but later, under pressure from the Golder family, recanted. If you notice Calica did not offically recant, it was Tena who said the detectives lied or misconstrued. Un-huh, the detectives lied :waitasec:

 

[scandi]

Curious Scandi, what was DG in jail for? I had not heard this before, thx.
As for Calica's motivation in telling about Dale's reaction to Lindsey's disappearance and supposedly what happened to her ... I think Calica spoke the truth to investigators, but later, under pressure from the Golder family, recanted. If you notice Calica did not offically recant, it was Tena who said the detectives lied or misconstrued. Un-huh, the detectives lied :waitasec:

Morning Knox, I didn't mean to imply DG was in jail, only that he heard it from someone who was. And that was all that was said about it, a one liner. If it is true you'd think investigators would track this info back to who ever said it, but it is most likely something they would keep close to the vest, right?

And I agree with you about Calicia xox

 

[JenniferO]

wait.. so DG 'supposedly' heard via someone in jail that Lindsey had been cut up and dismembered less than 48 hours after she went missing?

Why would someone from the county jail call DG collect to tell him he'd heard this? I mean what makes a person in jail say "OMG.. I should call DG with this information" when supposedly DG didn't know Lindsey.

 

[Knox]

Sorry I misunderstood Scandi ... DG heard the info from someone who was in jail. Hmmnn, I have to say this has sparked my curiosity big time.

 

[Paulette]

Perhaps DG's obsession to talk about LB's dismemberment is because he's shocked, not because he did it, but because he knows who did? Why else would he be shocked? It may NOT be the abduction that got him going, but the dismemberment. Any guesses who that someone might be?

 

[RoseWhite]

Didn't someone speculate once that DG may have been a victim of abuse as a child? If he was, it could explain why he didn't know what was right and wrong as a teen. And could also explain why he was so focused on what happened to Lindsey.

 

[Knox]

Snippets from the FA Charts describing the perp; Please skip if you wish.

• Who is this perpetrator and how to unearth him? To begin, he has a record. His one vanity is his well muscled physique.

• The perpetrator has not lived an honest life and has stolen from others, Saturn in House 8, thinking he has more need, is more deprived and deserving. He simply takes.

• This directs us to either someone in authority or a parent.

• He has citations on his DMV file, at least one having to do with speed.

• That's a really good question, butterfly. He (the Perp) doesn't have a profession in the common sense of that term but is a worker, a labourer. He could have been in charge of inventory and stocking it. He could have loaded trucks. He could have been a farmworker. That end of the food chain. He appeared to be an industrious or steady employee but as mentioned before, this man is not honest. Others suspected that, so he was one of the first to go. I should have made clear before that his dishonesty was not confined to taking what did not belong to him, he lies like a used car salesman.

• Rather, someone who works with/on the land is indicated, possibly with his hands (such as laborer). This person could work on the land, in a profession dealing with land such as landscaping, or own the land. A landlord would fit as an occupation here..

• We have a severe clash between authority and all things II including coming and going, schooling, neighbors, communicating. We know that in this case, authority gone bad is tapped as responsible for this crime. We know Lindsey was a likely victim for this type of twisted, hypocritical misuser of power because of her Saturn-Neptune square. Have we exhausted all possible McCleary authorities? Landlord, parent, principal, teacher, policeman, fireman, neighborhood watch captain, athletic coach, clergyman, construction super, store owner. I'm sure you can think of additional figures who impose themselves upon children.

• The charts support each other. The perp was known to Lindsey, she likely considered him to be an 'authority figure,' and the likelihood that the perp is a neighbor / someone living in the local area is high.

• Therefore, group involvement or unfamiliar geographic circumstances are allied to the self-destructive acts committed by our perpetrator. O° Sagittarius speaks of a fresh start, a brand new set of conditions and sadly for Lindsey, an exploratory urge--exploring in the broadest sense of the term, as in trying to do something the perpetrator had never done before.

• The Last Seen chart says there had been a problem between the child and the person denoted by Saturn earlier. That was when Mercury made the square to Saturn and was put down for something she was saying or doing. This was not just a disapproving older person, it is the same person who rules this event chart and who is responsible for Lindsey vanishing. We have a timeline for her activities during that day but not the details. If there was an occurence where she was berated or chastised while at the pool or in the video store or anywhere, we do not know about it. We do know that she and her brother squabbled over his bike and we know that Mercury in II is rightfully two children, not one and that bicycles fall under II. We know this ding dong between the kids was halted and he was sent packing. This glimpse of her day does fit the Mercury Saturn square earlier but we cannot seize on it to the exclusion of other possibilities because we do not have similar glimpses into all of the interactions of June 26, not even those in the living room of the Kampen home.

• I agree that the known cast of characters is the important focus. And what stresses and emphasizes and intensifies that focus is the fact that the perpetrator was known to Lindsey, remember? Mercury had squared Saturn in the very recent past and I wrote about the criticism that accompanied their contact. Then the Moon moved in to translate the light from Saturn to Lindsey-Mercury again, a renewed contact. So you could not be more correct. Let's look at the circle around the victim and keep staring until the light bulb goes on.

• House 3 is where we talk, testify, provide information, communicate. The Moon is there but intercepted thus she is suppressing what she knows and could tell the police and the searchers. What or who is silencing her? It is the planet that rules the Sign she is in, Jupiter, a child or a lover. That individual is covered in a pretense of righteousness, Jupiter conjunct Neptune. Many things may be suppressed in small towns where, otherwise, everyone knows everyone's business. Consistent in all Lindsey charts is trouble in home or property and involvement of home and property that needs investigation.

• Page 13 is about what the school environment offers the investigation into this crime. The very setting of return to school confines the students and socialises them and will produce conversations about the newsworthy disappearance of their classmate. We have seen in the charts that there is one pupil who knows what happened, possibly two. Teachers will be alert to behavior that gives indications of that.

• Due to the prominent squares in the Search Warrant Chart, much exertion will be required of the searchers, who also will not encounter cooperation. Since June 26, more than one location has been part of this crime.

• Undoubtedly, there are persons that are also talking directly to Melissa B. about their support and promises of assistance for future planned group searches. This person may have come in contact w/Melissa on the 21stand expressed their interest to participate. The knowledge necessary to find Lindsey has been hidden, camouflaged by possibly one of these 'interested' residents of McCleary who appears to be most concerned & in support of finding her-like someone no one would have suspected. We can not rule out this possibility that the person responsible for Lindsey's disappearance is known to the family. Stats have proven, in the majority of these child kidnappings, the perp is somehow familiar to or with the victim.

• kageykaren is wondering about any sort of false-favorable contacts the perpetrator may have had with the women around Lindsey. In a chart interpreted on this page we saw the Moon in Sagittarius (more than one female) intercepted and thus suppressed as to what they know--the House of the intercept is the House of information and communicating same. Bears looking into what contacts there may have been.

• I remember already discussing this intercept in the August 28 Klaas Search Chart, now that I re-examine it. The women (two, in Sagittarius a dual Sign) were protecting either a child or a current flame. That does not directly answer your question, kageykaren but goes some way toward answering it. Why do they feel they have to conceal information to protect a loved one? From the search chart, it would seem that the loved one has guilty knowledge, although is not the perpetrator himself.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Hi Track, I think if that had happened there would have been an obvious crime scene. Tire tracks, body fluids, fibres and maybe a slip on shoe. We haven't heard that. And this is possibly one reason LE believes Lindsey knew her abductor and got into his vehicle willingly. IMO xox

I'm behind as I haven't had a computer for awhile. Do you think that this guy stopped and offered to give Lindsey a ride home...reminding her that he works with Lindsey's girlfriend's mother and knows her girlfriend? Even little girls Lindsey's age know when a car is cool and she might have really wanted to ride in his loud cool car even if it was just to her house. Her girlfriends would be jealous cause she got to ride in the car. Of course once he got her in the car he might have suggested a short ride and the rest we know.

I just wonder where she is now. So many wooded areas around there I suppose she could be anywhere either close by or far away up some logging road. I hope she is found by hunters so her parents can bury her. It's terrible to think of a little girl out there somewhere alone for ever and ever.

 

[scandi]

wait.. so DG 'supposedly' heard via someone in jail that Lindsey had been cut up and dismembered less than 48 hours after she went missing?

Why would someone from the county jail call DG collect to tell him he'd heard this? I mean what makes a person in jail say "OMG.. I should call DG with this information" when supposedly DG didn't know Lindsey.

Hi Jennifer, the way Dale said it was vague, that he was surprised to learn in his town that a girl had been kidnapped then cut up and dismembered. And you are right, it was either Sat or early Sunday when he told her this.

My first thought was, ya sure, as he would have to have talked to the killer or done it himself to know that grizzly detail about dismemberment. Very odd, even to tell her that. I wonder if it was the first time they had talked since 2002, on the 26th?

Anyway, then I read a post that he had learned about the dismemberment from someone in jail. It is not a verified fact. If he was a good friend of this person in jail who learned from someone, I can see them talking about it. Inmates don't usually watch news but rather movies. I do find it interesting tho that Dale didn't tell investigators where he learned this news from.

 

[scandi]

I'm behind as I haven't had a computer for awhile. Do you think that this guy stopped and offered to give Lindsey a ride home...reminding her that he works with Lindsey's girlfriend's mother and knows her girlfriend? Even little girls Lindsey's age know when a car is cool and she might have really wanted to ride in his loud cool car even if it was just to her house. Her girlfriends would be jealous cause she got to ride in the car. Of course once he got her in the car he might have suggested a short ride and the rest we know.

I just wonder where she is now. So many wooded areas around there I suppose she could be anywhere either close by or far away up some logging road. I hope she is found by hunters so her parents can bury her. It's terrible to think of a little girl out there somewhere alone for ever and ever.

Hi Bobbiesangel, Great to see you ;}

If Dale had never met or talked to Lindsey I think your idea could be very possible. It would be a good in for him to get at her, and also mean he knew who she was, right?

We don't know what LE found out, if he really knew her or not. It is what Dale told them. Since Lindsey told an older person a white car was following her and had also approached her gf, telling her he would let her drive, and that Lindsey was scared of this, it makes it all a bit more suspicious for me that he had either given her the eye or flirted with her. In the Affidavit it says many of the staff and residents knew Lindsey as her friend's mom worked there, Libby Nelson.

After just reading thru the Affidavit again I am stunned at the circumstantial findings LE made about Dale. It almost makes one want to shake their head abd say how could we even look at anyone else for this! xox