POI: Joseph Brewer #2

[White_Rabbit]

What's your source for Hackett having interaction with Shannan that evening?

Under the circumstances it’s seems logical.

Shannan Gilbert was in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s residence that morning.

Peter Hackett’s phone call to Mari Gilbert leads me to believe he had interaction with Shannan.

The telephone record of the call exists, and Peter Hackett eventually had to, at the very least, admit that he made the phone call.

Mari Gilbert testified that Peter Hackett called her, and as to what was discussed during the phone call.

Peter Hackett said, “ When you give..” and then stopped himself mid sentence in the 48 Hours interview. This was in response to a question asking why he contacted Mari Gilbert. I believe he was about to say “When you give medical attention..”

 

[White_Rabbit]

this is a very logical, thought out theory of events. What doesn't sit right with me is:
-if Brewer didn't pay her, or there was a money dispute, wouldn't pak side with shannan, as he is supposed to be paid, as well (let me add i dont believe the $ amts he claims to make...seems very low to spend all that gas money and time)
-wouldnt pak want shannan to be safe and sound since she was a source of income for him?
-wouldnt brewer want to be sure that they left the gated community?


WR, do you believe the possibility of it being a party with more attendees, who did have a "hobby" of making snuff films?

I think that Michael Pak may have been unaware of what was going on in the house until after it escalated into Shannan having a full blown anxiety attack, and dialing 911. It’s possible that Shannan had tried to negotiate the situation herself, keeping assistance from Michael Pak as an option if Joseph Brewer continued to refuse to pay, but Joseph Brewer escalated the situation into a physical assault, before she had the chance to contact Michael Pak for help collecting the money. By the time Michael Pak became involved it was already beyond simply collecting money, it was then a desperate situation to remove Shannan and himself from the scene before the police responded to the 911 call. Michael Pak then had no time to patiently coax Shannon to leave with him, and may himself had tried to forcibly remove Shannan from the house, further escalating the situation into what it became.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Very plausible, IMO, and said better than I ever could. Pak could have been the one to grab her, try and get hold of her, as she was running, and maybe her jacket came off in the process. I'd have to go back and look at BB's EBT to see if she recalled Shannan wearing a jacket when she saw her.

I've always thought, since I joined this board, that your explanations/ideas are probably fairly close to what may have actually happened. I don't have a doubt in my mind that Pak would be capable of doing what was done. There are just so many gaps to fill in, and whatever lies exist--without proof to disprove the lie, have only confused the situation through the years, for any of us interested in the case.

Barbara Brennan stated in her affidavit that she did not see Shannan wearing a jacket, but was wearing a white short sleeved shirt, “baby doll” like.

 

[Bose]

Thanks @White_Rabbit for confirming the info as to whether SG had her jacket on when BB saw her. I wasn't sure, and haven't read back through the case docs today.

 

[White_Rabbit]

No problem @Bose

I found these quick links on another thread.

Affidavid of Bruce Anderson
Statement of Evelyn Scalise
Statement of Joe Scalise
3 EBTs of Charles Hackett
2 Transcripts of Thomas Canning
Transcript of Justin Canning
Transcript of Caroline Hackett
Transcript of Charles Serota
Affidavid of Barbara Brennan
Transcript of Barbara Hackett
Transcript of Charles Hackett, Jr
Transcript of Joseph Brewer
Transcript of Michale Pak
Transcript of Mari Gilbert

John Ray Synopsis and Analysis
Opposition to Motion to Dismiss

 

[PillowofWinds]

I have read that the residents can't do much without Board approval. It's an affluent, gated community. So in the wee hours of the morning, Shannan supposedly freaked out for no reason in his house and ran away. And her jacket was in his driveway? If you are running away, why would you take your jacket off? You would just be booking down the street. So she calls 911 and hysterically runs away, and Brewer just decides to close the door and go to sleep. LOL yeah, ok. He lives next door to a priest and right down the road from a SC police officer and a bunch of older folks and families. He doesn't worry that anyone will have a problem with an unfamiliar vehicle chasing a hysterical prostitute around in the community? BS! I do believe he chased her and caught her with Pak's help.

And when the cops arrived, why were the cameras not checked then and there? One lies and the others swear to it over there. Lot of criminal activity there and looks like they all have dirt on one another.

And I believe that it is highly possible they had Hackett sedate her. Sounds like all these suspicious people are now trying to frame and blame Hackett, solely. Brewer acts like he barely knew anyone in the community. That is extremely hard to believe. You have Scalice Sr stating that Brewer and Shannan went and picked up coke from Tom Canning. No one is asking about that? Why isn't Mackay asking Brewer to refute this? It's all public information anyone can read.

Correction to my comment...Scalise does not say that Brewer got coke from Canning, but that Canning told Scalise that Brewer left the house to get more coke, and that Shannan was coked up.

 

[Bose]

No problem @Bose

I found these quick links on another thread.

Affidavid of Bruce Anderson
Statement of Evelyn Scalise
Statement of Joe Scalise
3 EBTs of Charles Hackett
2 Transcripts of Thomas Canning
Transcript of Justin Canning
Transcript of Caroline Hackett
Transcript of Charles Serota
Affidavid of Barbara Brennan
Transcript of Barbara Hackett
Transcript of Charles Hackett, Jr
Transcript of Joseph Brewer
Transcript of Michale Pak
Transcript of Mari Gilbert

John Ray Synopsis and Analysis
Opposition to Motion to Dismiss

Thank you so much!!! I'm sure it'll help others on this thread, too, for quick reference.

 

[Bose]

Correction to my comment...Scalise does not say that Brewer got coke from Canning, but that Canning told Scalise that Brewer left the house to get more coke, and that Shannan was coked up.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify that, there, @PillowofWinds . So, back to cocaine. I'm guessing TC wasn't Brewer's only supplier. Wondering what types of drugs TC supplied, if drugs in addition to cocaine. Usually dealers don't deal in just one drug, from what I've gathered through the years. Again, just wondering, in the Oak Beach community who was getting what drugs from where. I can't imagine there was a big dealer there, but maybe a small hub and several buyers. Unless there's something/someone bigger we're missing in the picture, who lived in that area. IMO

 

[PillowofWinds]

Thanks for taking the time to clarify that, there, @PillowofWinds . So, back to cocaine. I'm guessing TC wasn't Brewer's only supplier. Wondering what types of drugs TC supplied, if drugs in addition to cocaine. Usually dealers don't deal in just one drug, from what I've gathered through the years. Again, just wondering, in the Oak Beach community who was getting what drugs from where. I can't imagine there was a big dealer there, but maybe a small hub and several buyers. Unless there's something/someone bigger we're missing in the picture, who lived in that area. IMO

I'm going to assume if they did go get drugs, it was in oak beach, as a drive over the causeway at that hour, when on anything, is very risky and would take awhile. I cant imagine a john will waste that much time when he is paying by the hour. And how would TC know that is why they left the house and how SG looked? Unless he saw them? This is also assuming that JS is telling the truth. I find BB to be the most honest. Not sure why we never heard from Colettis wife.

 

[WINDSOR]

I think that Michael Pak may have been unaware of what was going on in the house until after it escalated into Shannan having a full blown anxiety attack, and dialing 911. It’s possible that Shannan had tried to negotiate the situation herself, keeping assistance from Michael Pak as an option if Joseph Brewer continued to refuse to pay, but Joseph Brewer escalated the situation into a physical assault, before she had the chance to contact Michael Pak for help collecting the money. By the time Michael Pak became involved it was already beyond simply collecting money, it was then a desperate situation to remove Shannan and himself from the scene before the police responded to the 911 call. Michael Pak then had no time to patiently coax Shannon to leave with him, and may himself had tried to forcibly remove Shannan from the house, further escalating the situation into what it became.

Unless I am exceptionally naive, do not sex workers collect their money first. I doubt Shannan would be collecting her fee two hours after her arrival at Brewer's residence.
Secondly calling the Police/911 I believe is absolutely the last resort of any sex worker. Sex workers pay their driver to be their security. If Shannan called 911 for help instead of Pak, she had an excellent reason not to trust Pak. I believe she learned inside Brewer's house that led her to not trust Pak.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Unless I am exceptionally naive, do not sex workers collect their money first. I doubt Shannan would be collecting her fee two hours after her arrival at Brewer's residence.
Secondly calling the Police/911 I believe is absolutely the last resort of any sex worker. Sex workers pay their driver to be their security. If Shannan called 911 for help instead of Pak, she had an excellent reason not to trust Pak. I believe she learned inside Brewer's house that led her to not trust Pak.

Keep in mind that Shannan originally negotiated a visit with Joseph Brewer for a set amount of time and money, and that time was extended. Shannan most likely received the originally negotiated payment up front, but after developing a rapport with Joseph Brewer did not insist on the payment for the extension up front.

You make a very good point regarding Shannan dialing 911 instead of Michael Pak. I’m going to have to review Michael Pak’s deposition again, and also try to analyze whatever phone records are available for Shannan that morning.

 

[Bose]

I'm going to assume if they did go get drugs, it was in oak beach, as a drive over the causeway at that hour, when on anything, is very risky and would take awhile. I cant imagine a john will waste that much time when he is paying by the hour. And how would TC know that is why they left the house and how SG looked? Unless he saw them? This is also assuming that JS is telling the truth. I find BB to be the most honest. Not sure why we never heard from Colettis wife.

Yes, I can say from personal experience--both driving over that causeway myself back around that time, and also being a passenger (including at night), it's a trip that is out of the way. I have been in a car at night with people who were driving who were speeding, when the road was more or less empty, and I'm fairly sure I know where that CVS is, and another one that was in the general vicinity, still would be a waste of time. I remember reading that CVS had drug deals going on in the parking lot, if it was not that one in particular, it was the other one that wasn't too far. I do think Barbara B was probably the most trustworthy, as well, IMO. No idea why no info from Coletti's wife, if she was well, and able to do so, would have helped, perhaps.

Unless I am exceptionally naive, do not sex workers collect their money first. I doubt Shannan would be collecting her fee two hours after her arrival at Brewer's residence.
Secondly calling the Police/911 I believe is absolutely the last resort of any sex worker. Sex workers pay their driver to be their security. If Shannan called 911 for help instead of Pak, she had an excellent reason not to trust Pak. I believe she learned inside Brewer's house that led her to not trust Pak.

I'm not sure how things work, myself, with the whole exchange of money, to be honest--but, yes, would think something would be exchanged up front. I agree that calling Police/911 would be the last result of many sex workers, and I think you're on the right track with Shannan learning inside Brewer's house that he was not going to help her, whatever was happening.

Keep in mind that Shannan originally negotiated a visit with Joseph Brewer for a set amount of time and money, and that time was extended. Shannan most likely received the originally negotiated payment up front, but after developing a rapport with Joseph Brewer did not insist on the payment for the extension up front.

You make a very good point regarding Shannan dialing 911 instead of Michael Pak. I’m going to have to review Michael Pak’s deposition again, and also try to analyze whatever phone records are available for Shannan that morning.

IMO, things were going alright at the beginning in Brewer's house. Whatever initial deal they made was agreed upon. If it included delivery of drugs, perhaps that was delivered. Not to get too in-depth with physical effects of cocaine, sexually, but for guys it can help or hinder--speaking as someone who had a prior relationship with a addict. Usually hinder. Just my experience. I wonder if the extension of services and time for that night, in some way Brewer was frustrated, felt he was shorted, (sexually, and possibly couldn't get as much cocaine as he wanted, if that's the case, or if Shannan did coke with him felt she took too much of the share, or she didn't comply with some sort of sexual request that frightened her or she felt was way out of line), and so didn't want to pay Shannan the extra money...and Pak wanted the extra money, his cut.

Somehow, Shannan wound up in a situation where two men, likely, were angry with her, and perhaps making threats. I can't see any logical reason, right now, where she would not go to Pak, unless he was actively giving her a hard time and scaring her. If Pak was shorted on his end of the deal, you would think he would be mad at Brewer. But, I think Pak blamed Shannan, and it was for loss of money.

 

[WINDSOR]

First, I do not have much confidence in the depositions of Brewer or Pak being accurate or factual as to what actually happened.

White _Rabbit states,
"It now makes the most sense to me that an enraged Joseph Brewer attempted to forcibly remove Shannan from the house, and physically assaulted her, which then caused her to instinctively dial 911, which then caused Joseph Brewer to have to seek assistance from Michael Pak, who then first tried to patiently coax Shannan to leave with him, failing this then attempted to forcibly remove Shannan from the house himself."

Based on this scenario, if Shannan felt threatened and was being physically assaulted by Brewer, why at this point would she not leave with her driver, Pak? In most cases when people are under threat of assault, they need very little encouragement to leave the premises.

There is something more going on than either Brewer or Pak have disclosed. The 911 tape probably have those details.

 

[White_Rabbit]

First, I do not have much confidence in the depositions of Brewer or Pak being accurate or factual as to what actually happened.

White _Rabbit states,
"It now makes the most sense to me that an enraged Joseph Brewer attempted to forcibly remove Shannan from the house, and physically assaulted her, which then caused her to instinctively dial 911, which then caused Joseph Brewer to have to seek assistance from Michael Pak, who then first tried to patiently coax Shannan to leave with him, failing this then attempted to forcibly remove Shannan from the house himself."

Based on this scenario, if Shannan felt threatened and was being physically assaulted by Brewer, why at this point would she not leave with her driver, Pak? In most cases when people are under threat of assault, they need very little encouragement to leave the premises.

There is something more going on than either Brewer or Pak have disclosed. The 911 tape probably have those details.

I’ve been trying to brain storm what possibly could’ve occurred at Joseph Brewer’s house between 4:09 a.m and 4:51 a.m. on May 1, 2010.

You are correct Windsor. Shannan must have had reason not to trust Michael Pak that morning.

She was okay with him up until 4:09 a.m.

There is no record of Shannan attempting to contact Michael Pak by phone after 4:09 a.m.

Shannan called 911 at 4:51 a.m.

According to Michael Pak Shannan was already on the phone with 911 by the time he entered the house.

Why would she do that without first having tried to contact Michael Pak, unless she had reason not trust him.

Why would she have reason to trust him at 4:09 a.m., but not at 4:51 a.m.?

Shannan had to have dialed 911 after the time Michael Pak entered the house.

At some point between 4:09 a.m. and 4:51 a.m. Joseph Brewer decided for whatever reason he wanted Shannan to leave his house.

Shannan would not leave presumably because Joseph Brewer still had something that she wanted, which could only be the $200 for the hour extension.

Joseph Brewer asks for Michael Pak’s help.

Michael Pak goes into the house with Joseph Brewer.

Michael Pak would now have to assess the situation.

There is no reason Shannan would not want to leave unless she has not been paid all of the money she is owed.

Joseph Brewer wants Shannan to leave without having to pay her all of the money she is owed.

Michael Pak would have to have gathered information from Shannan as to why she did not want to leave, which could only be because she had not received all of the money she is owed.

Michael Pak should be intervening on behalf of Shannon to collect all of the money she is owed, but for some reason this does not happen.

For some reason Michael Pak wants Shannan to leave with him without being paid all of the money she is owed, which in turn he would receive a portion of that money.

Shannan has not called 911 at this point.

Something happened just before 4:51 a.m. to cause Shannon to call 911 and say, “They’re trying to kill me”

If it is true that the only people inside the house at this time were Shannon Gilbert, Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak, then Shannon saying “They’re trying to kill me” must have been a reference to both Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak.

Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak must have physically assaulted Shannan just before 4:51 a.m.

Why would Michael Pak turn on his business associate, Shannan, in favor of a stranger, Joseph Brewer, that was refusing to pay them all of the money they were owed?

Did Joseph Brewer threaten both Shannan and Michael Pak in any way that would cause Michael Pak to forgo the money and want to leave as fast as possible?

I’m trying to think of an answer to these questions. Maybe some feedback and brainstorming by other members could help hash this out.

In any event, the reasons Shannan ran from the house still do not change the chain of events that happened directly after, which leaves us with Shannan in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house that morning, with Michael Pak in pursuit, Shannan disappearing and her body being discovered a year and a half later in the marsh between Ocean Parkway and Peter Hackett’s house, and her belongings being discovered in close proximity to Peter Hackett’s house.

 

[PillowofWinds]

I’ve been trying to brain storm what possibly could’ve occurred at Joseph Brewer’s house between 4:09 a.m and 4:51 a.m. on May 1, 2010.

You are correct Windsor. Shannan must have had reason not to trust Michael Pak that morning.

She was okay with him up until 4:09 a.m.

There is no record of Shannan attempting to contact Michael Pak by phone after 4:09 a.m.

Shannan called 911 at 4:51 a.m.

According to Michael Pak Shannan was already on the phone with 911 by the time he entered the house.

Why would she do that without first having tried to contact Michael Pak, unless she had reason not trust him.

Why would she have reason to trust him at 4:09 a.m., but not at 4:51 a.m.?

Shannan had to have dialed 911 after the time Michael Pak entered the house.

At some point between 4:09 a.m. and 4:51 a.m. Joseph Brewer decided for whatever reason he wanted Shannan to leave his house.

Shannan would not leave presumably because Joseph Brewer still had something that she wanted, which could only be the $200 for the hour extension.

Joseph Brewer asks for Michael Pak’s help.

Michael Pak goes into the house with Joseph Brewer.

Michael Pak would now have to assess the situation.

There is no reason Shannan would not want to leave unless she has not been paid all of the money she is owed.

Joseph Brewer wants Shannan to leave without having to pay her all of the money she is owed.

Michael Pak would have to have gathered information from Shannan as to why she did not want to leave, which could only be because she had not received all of the money she is owed.

Michael Pak should be intervening on behalf of Shannon to collect all of the money she is owed, but for some reason this does not happen.

For some reason Michael Pak wants Shannan to leave with him without being paid all of the money she is owed, which in turn he would receive a portion of that money.

Shannan has not called 911 at this point.

Something happened just before 4:51 a.m. to cause Shannon to call 911 and say, “They’re trying to kill me”

If it is true that the only people inside the house at this time were Shannon Gilbert, Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak, then Shannon saying “They’re trying to kill me” must have been a reference to both Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak.

Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak must have physically assaulted Shannan just before 4:51 a.m.

Why would Michael Pak turn on his business associate, Shannan, in favor of a stranger, Joseph Brewer, that was refusing to pay them all of the money they were owed?

Did Joseph Brewer threaten both Shannan and Michael Pak in any way that would cause Michael Pak to forgo the money and want to leave as fast as possible?

I’m trying to think of an answer to these questions. Maybe some feedback and brainstorming by other members could help hash this out.

In any event, the reasons Shannan ran from the house still do not change the chain of events that happened directly after, which leaves us with Shannan in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house that morning, with Michael Pak in pursuit, Shannan disappearing and her body being discovered a year and a half later in the marsh between Ocean Parkway and Peter Hackett’s house, and her belongings being discovered in close proximity to Peter Hackett’s house.

I'm under the assumption that Pak got paid. Probably paid off ahead of time. This whole scenario is frustrating because without being there, and without hearing the 911 call, we have nothing to go on. Certainly the words of Pak and Brewer are not reliable. I want to say you could almost take whatever they say and say the opposite must be true. They want us to believe she was drugged up and out of her mind. And they were just calm and cool. The fact that she was scared of Pak is especially suspect. She wasn't worried about getting money and getting home...she was worrying about trying to stay alive. Absolutely Heartbreaking.

 

[Bose]

I’ve been trying to brain storm what possibly could’ve occurred at Joseph Brewer’s house between 4:09 a.m and 4:51 a.m. on May 1, 2010.

You are correct Windsor. Shannan must have had reason not to trust Michael Pak that morning.

She was okay with him up until 4:09 a.m.

There is no record of Shannan attempting to contact Michael Pak by phone after 4:09 a.m.

Shannan called 911 at 4:51 a.m.

According to Michael Pak Shannan was already on the phone with 911 by the time he entered the house.

Why would she do that without first having tried to contact Michael Pak, unless she had reason not trust him.

Why would she have reason to trust him at 4:09 a.m., but not at 4:51 a.m.?

Shannan had to have dialed 911 after the time Michael Pak entered the house.

At some point between 4:09 a.m. and 4:51 a.m. Joseph Brewer decided for whatever reason he wanted Shannan to leave his house.

Shannan would not leave presumably because Joseph Brewer still had something that she wanted, which could only be the $200 for the hour extension.

Joseph Brewer asks for Michael Pak’s help.

Michael Pak goes into the house with Joseph Brewer.

Michael Pak would now have to assess the situation.

There is no reason Shannan would not want to leave unless she has not been paid all of the money she is owed.

Joseph Brewer wants Shannan to leave without having to pay her all of the money she is owed.

Michael Pak would have to have gathered information from Shannan as to why she did not want to leave, which could only be because she had not received all of the money she is owed.

Michael Pak should be intervening on behalf of Shannon to collect all of the money she is owed, but for some reason this does not happen.

For some reason Michael Pak wants Shannan to leave with him without being paid all of the money she is owed, which in turn he would receive a portion of that money.

Shannan has not called 911 at this point.

Something happened just before 4:51 a.m. to cause Shannon to call 911 and say, “They’re trying to kill me”

If it is true that the only people inside the house at this time were Shannon Gilbert, Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak, then Shannon saying “They’re trying to kill me” must have been a reference to both Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak.

Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak must have physically assaulted Shannan just before 4:51 a.m.

Why would Michael Pak turn on his business associate, Shannan, in favor of a stranger, Joseph Brewer, that was refusing to pay them all of the money they were owed?

Did Joseph Brewer threaten both Shannan and Michael Pak in any way that would cause Michael Pak to forgo the money and want to leave as fast as possible?

I’m trying to think of an answer to these questions. Maybe some feedback and brainstorming by other members could help hash this out.

In any event, the reasons Shannan ran from the house still do not change the chain of events that happened directly after, which leaves us with Shannan in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house that morning, with Michael Pak in pursuit, Shannan disappearing and her body being discovered a year and a half later in the marsh between Ocean Parkway and Peter Hackett’s house, and her belongings being discovered in close proximity to Peter Hackett’s house.

I think we are pretty close to a scenario of what happened inside Brewer's house in that short period of time, as stated from approximately 4:09 am to 4:51 am.

I do think the statement she made (the one we know about) about "they're trying to kill me," is about Brewer and Pak. We don't have much to think otherwise, unless the 911 call were to come to light.

I try to imagine myself in Shannan's situation, literally, if I was her. We're two different people, can have different reactions, but one of the most telling things to me actually, out of all things, what I think about, is her hiding behind a sofa. I don't know how Brewer's furniture was set up, if the sofa was set against a wall, or not. I used to hide behind the sofa as a kid (my dad was super violent, just sayin). A former dog of mine, a husky, would hide behind the couch and shake when company was around (she was traumatized as a puppy and rescued).

So, couches. IMO: In a fight/flight/freeze/fawn situation, it's a place to go when in imminent danger--an escalating situation. Out of sight (temporarily), and have a barrier--so that even if grabbed by a leg or something, the torso/head is protected.

IMO: I would only hide behind something if my path to flee was blocked. Perhaps Brewer and/or Pak were blocking the route to the door. I know this may be hard to connect with for some, and it does not mean that she was actively being assaulted at the time. But, I think of it as her trying to make a "safe space" where there was none to try to access help by phone, and I've gotta think at least threats were being made for her to go behind a couch. Couches are big and bulky, and usually have cushioning to protect against blows/stabbing (it's instinctual). I don't think she would have been behind a couch unless she was scared of an imminent physical attack, and once on the phone with 911, may have felt better knowing she had a temporary barrier and the call was being recorded, in case something happened to her during the call. I believe she knew/felt she would have a greater chance ultimately, of survival, in an unpredictable and scary situation.

Did she come out from behind the sofa on her own, or was she dragged out by a leg, or something? Anyone remember/know?

 

[White_Rabbit]

I think we are pretty close to a scenario of what happened inside Brewer's house in that short period of time, as stated from approximately 4:09 am to 4:51 am.

I do think the statement she made (the one we know about) about "they're trying to kill me," is about Brewer and Pak. We don't have much to think otherwise, unless the 911 call were to come to light.

I try to imagine myself in Shannan's situation, literally, if I was her. We're two different people, can have different reactions, but one of the most telling things to me actually, out of all things, what I think about, is her hiding behind a sofa. I don't know how Brewer's furniture was set up, if the sofa was set against a wall, or not. I used to hide behind the sofa as a kid (my dad was super violent, just sayin). A former dog of mine, a husky, would hide behind the couch and shake when company was around (she was traumatized as a puppy and rescued).

So, couches. IMO: In a fight/flight/freeze/fawn situation, it's a place to go when in imminent danger--an escalating situation. Out of sight (temporarily), and have a barrier--so that even if grabbed by a leg or something, the torso/head is protected.

IMO: I would only hide behind something if my path to flee was blocked. Perhaps Brewer and/or Pak were blocking the route to the door. I know this may be hard to connect with for some, and it does not mean that she was actively being assaulted at the time. But, I think of it as her trying to make a "safe space" where there was none to try to access help by phone, and I've gotta think at least threats were being made for her to go behind a couch. Couches are big and bulky, and usually have cushioning to protect against blows/stabbing (it's instinctual). I don't think she would have been behind a couch unless she was scared of an imminent physical attack, and once on the phone with 911, may have felt better knowing she had a temporary barrier and the call was being recorded, in case something happened to her during the call. I believe she knew/felt she would have a greater chance ultimately, of survival, in an unpredictable and scary situation.

Did she come out from behind the sofa on her own, or was she dragged out by a leg, or something? Anyone remember/know?

Joseph Brewer pleads the 5th, and Michael Pak states that he left the house while Shannan was still behind the couch, only to see her run away from the house after he returned to his car.

 

[Bose]

Joseph Brewer pleads the 5th, and Michael Pak states that he left the house while Shannan was still behind the couch, only to see her run away from the house after he returned to his car.

Bingo. IMO, there's some deception there, the whole story is not clear--but it would be on the 911 tape, I presume. I don't believe Pak's statement there, I think it was said to make it look like he gave up and he just walked away to protect his interests. Brewer pleading the 5th just adds to that for me, even given Brewer pleaded the 5th repeatedly.

Brewer and/or Pak would probably be wary of touching her/assaulting while she was on the 911 call, with that potential "witness" on the other end of the line, maybe talk with her/negotiate, make it seem like they would not hurt her. But, she must have already experienced something which frightened her, to be behind the couch, and be on the line with 911. That is the only thing that makes sense to me. I don't buy any mental breakdown issues, I think any references made to that in the original paperwork was pure gaslighting, making it look like she broke for no reason at all.

I believe both Pak and Brewer did fight with her in some way, and did care where she went after Brewer's house, and both knew they could get in trouble.

 

[WINDSOR]

Until the 911 tape is made public, I think it is futile to speculate on what happened in Brewer's house. I also believe it is more futile to base those speculations on what either Brewer or Pak have stated. One person knows for sure who was in Brewer's house and what happened and he is taking the 5th. He was also using drugs, so if confronted he can always say 'I do not remember'. We need to hear the 911 tape.

What if Shannan on the 911 call said there were several other men present? Then you have to wonder why the SCPD have not identified and investigated those men?

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Yes, without the 911 tape it’s all speculation. You need to know what’s on the tape, and the other recorded 911 calls (Brennan’s call etc.), combined w. the time and lengths of each call that was documented and recorded.