POI: Michael Pak

[Vivalor]

I'm not trying to pick at you personally, but what do you mean "was put up to making the phone call?"
"Put him up to it?" How does that work? He's a professional - a doctor if you will...what doctor would call a "girl's" mother from his own home? They teach ethics in Med school. It would never happen - unless it's an East Coast thing????? But I doubt that. A Doctor would never call a patient's family from his home phone...Why you ask? Because he knows that many people he treats may be unstable and he would never expose his family to any risk...we don't even wear name tags in the ER....for just that reason.

Ethics is something that is a god given gift. Your either have it or you don't. I have read up on lots and lots of doctors who have little to no ethics. Kinda like doctors who hand out pain killers like it's candy just to make a dime. Or how about nurses who have gotten in trouble to hitting and abusing the handicapped and mentally impaired.
What about officers who were sworn in to protect and serve and have gotten in trouble for rapping woman on the side of the road. Or molesting children. Or how about the ones who were picking up prostitutes in NY?
Like I said teaching ethics means nothing to me because if a person has a bad heart there is nothing you can teach that will change that. And personally I think it is naive as sin to assume that because one went to med school means they have ethics.
Also I don't recall reading anywhere ever that the doc treated Shannan anywhere and he just called to say that. And you say you don't mean to personally attack me. But then why are you coming at me with a matter of fact attitude and not more of a friendly debate? I'm not here to defend myself or talk ethics. I am here because I truly want to know what happened to SG that night she went missing. And I am simply just following what fits and what doesn't. It fits that CPH called SG mother around the time that AD and MP had gone back to Oak Beach.

 

[Vivalor]

I'm not trying to pick at you personally, but what do you mean "was put up to making the phone call?"
"Put him up to it?" How does that work? He's a professional - a doctor if you will...what doctor would call a "girl's" mother from his own home? They teach ethics in Med school. It would never happen - unless it's an East Coast thing????? But I doubt that. A Doctor would never call a patient's family from his home phone...Why you ask? Because he knows that many people he treats may be unstable and he would never expose his family to any risk...we don't even wear name tags in the ER....for just that reason.

Also if your saying CPH never called SG mother from his phone then why did he retrace his first lie that he didn't and then came out later once phone records showed that he did and said that he did in fact call her? I'm kinda confused to be honest what your argument is...are you saying he did or didn't?

 

[twocuriouscats]

Also if your saying CPH never called SG mother from his phone then why did he retrace his first lie that he didn't and then came out later once phone records showed that he did and said that he did in fact call her? I'm kinda confused to be honest what your argument is...are you saying he did or didn't?

You said he was "put up to making the phone call..." - that is what I questioned you about. So I ask again? What did you mean by that?

 

[Vivalor]

You said he was "put up to making the phone call..." - that is what I questioned you about. So I ask again? What did you mean by that?

He said that he was asked to contact SG mother or at least I could have sworn I read. If you have read all that I posted I have stated that a few times and that I was going to go and try to find the link and that I was starting to think that I should wright down all links that I find interesting for when the matter comes up.
If he was in fact asked to contact her then why was he asked to contact her?

 

[twocuriouscats]

Ethics is something that is a god given gift. Your either have it or you don't. I have read up on lots and lots of doctors who have little to no ethics. Kinda like doctors who hand out pain killers like it's candy just to make a dime. Or how about nurses who have gotten in trouble to hitting and abusing the handicapped and mentally impaired.
What about officers who were sworn in to protect and serve and have gotten in trouble for rapping woman on the side of the road. Or molesting children. Or how about the ones who were picking up prostitutes in NY?
Like I said teaching ethics means nothing to me because if a person has a bad heart there is nothing you can teach that will change that. And personally I think it is naive as sin to assume that because one went to med school means they have ethics.

So we agree.

Also I don't recall reading anywhere ever that the doc treated Shannan anywhere and he just called to say that.

Then you should keep reading, because he did claim exactly that.

And you say you don't mean to personally attack me. But then why are you coming at me with a matter of fact attitude and not more of a friendly debate? I'm not here to defend myself or talk ethics. I am here because I truly want to know what happened to SG that night she went missing. And I am simply just following what fits and what doesn't. It fits that CPH called SG mother around the time that AD and MP had gone back to Oak Beach.

I'm not trying to offend you. My point is that a truly ethical Doctor would never call a patient from his own phone IMHO.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Hi,
First off, it's AD NOT AC who was Shannan's boyfriend/pimp. AC is Megan's pimp Cruz.

As I stated like five posts ago, I fell victim to the NAAM again. Sorry, and really nice to point that out again ..."

CPH says he called Shannan's mother because MP (the driver/pimp) and AD (the pimp/boyfriend who broke her jaw) asked him to. Do we know that? No.

Which would make the question, how CPH could have learned SG's name and the phone number even more important. So, if not from AD, from where then?

SCPD says there was a phone found in the marsh, right before SG was found (implying that it was her phone). Do we know that? No.

Translated, SCPD found no phone and they are all in on a conspiracy and therefore lying about they found a phone? Or how shall I undertand that line?

MP says he kept calling and texting her when he couldn't find her. Do we know that? No.

Well, technically, we don't even know whether Australia exists. Those who calim to have been there could be all paid actors in a conspiracy, right? But seriously: He may or may did call or text, we don'T know exactly how many phones SG had to begin with. But we know, he hightailed out and we know, after weeks, when he was finally asked anything about this night, he had a motive to look good. Better at least than the driver-pimp he was.

Someone provided SG's "phone record" of that night...Do we know who? No.

You could of course search the old threads, then we would at least know form where we have it here?

Was the phone they claim to have found her only phone? We don't know.
Have we been given her COMPLETE phone record(s)? Doubt it.

This is my opinion based on memory. FWIW.

We can conclude a lot from people having motives or not. We can conclude and exclude things from the timelines, we can actually discuss a lot of things. Unless someone says no-no-no-no till only the things are discussed fitting the preferred theory.

I forgot to add - you asked how CPH could have gotten her (MG's) phone number...I say it was the same way SK got MB's sister's phone number...he took her phone.

And here we go again, CPH is the LISK who can hunt down on foot young girls, carry bodies around (one legged is no obstacle), the guy who on the behavioral side showed his whole life a personality disorder that is virtually mutually exclusive with the sadist-control-freak as which the "lynch CPH" faction tried successless to paint him for now over two years. You know, this whole thing convinces me more and more, Zombies exist. There are so many dead horses caming back again and again lately.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Please give me the link that verifies that LE checked MP's phone for games. I have discounted his information because he says he was outside the gate and a neighbor across the street from JB says he was parked in front of the house. So the link would be important information. You are using the initials AK for Akeem Cruz (I assume). This might confuse someone trying to keep track of all the players. I don't see how you can possibly say with certainty that SG didn't make any more calls because her battery was dead. There could be other reasons. Like she was murdered, like she was too drugged to speak,like someone took her phone away (the most likely IMO, like she had more than one phone. Since you are about the only person left on this forum and new posters are trying to rely on you for information, it is very important that you state your theories and opinions as such and not as the gospel truth. And where is the link about a three way call with MP, MG and AC? I have been here since the beginning of the case and this is the first time I have heard this.

There have been many comments made as I have been trying to compose this reply. Obviously there is now much confusion over the information. There are so many errors now it is impossible (and futile) to keep up with them). All I can say is check the facts.

It was in one of the 48 Hours episodes, that is what I remember. And yes, I apologize now for the third time to be a victim of NAAN, the North-American Abbreviation Mania. And the three way communication was a guess, based on the fact, that I doubted, MP, as driver hired from time to time would have SG's private phone numbers. It was as such marked. So don't start the link trick again. I am the only one here, who has to provide a link for everything, I say "IMO", "I think", "I assume", "I am wondering", "I guess" and other things clearly marking something as my own thoughts. <modsnip>

 

[Vivalor]

I'm not trying to offend you. My point is that a truly ethical Doctor would never call a patient from his own phone IMHO.

I think we are having some miscommunication problems here. I never said that CPH said that he had never claimed to treat SG. We all know that he called and had claimed to treat her. But did he actually ever at any time treat her? Or was she ever an actual patient of his? I've never once read or seen anything that has proven that he did treat her....just always been him saying that he did...and that means nothing to me because it's just him talking and rambling on again in my point of view.

Also I never actually said "put up to making the phone call..." what I said was "I am not a believer at all in CPH involvement other then someone used his land line to cause confusion or put him up to it and he thought he was doing something helpful/or attention getting." You see I never sated that in fact he was put up to making the phone call. I was saying that it's a possibility and that is one reason he could of called. I also put out another idea. If you leave out the rest of what I said and just put down a part of it...makes it sound different then what I was actually trying to say with the end result being that it's a pointless argument because it's not what I actually meant.

 

[twocuriouscats]

Seriously, there are two basic ideas to the subject of calling back. Some PDs say, try it to verify. Some PDs say, hell no, no ringing cell phones while a potential victim of a violent crime maybe tries to hide ... so, well, seems they make it up as they go.

It was not a reflection on you PB. I thought if you can get an answer from SCPD - more power to ya.

 

[Just K]

I do not recall an info about SG's phone calls after the 911 call.

Is it odd that MP would suddenly not ever call her again?

Yes, especially since he stated in more than one interview that he texted and called her several times...in an effort to find her. That is why one has to wonder if that is why he later stated that she used one phone for business and another for personal calls. But, why would he call her on this, her phone, and then this second phantom phone? Perhaps he knew that he had made a stoooopid mistake when he said he called or texted her several times. He had to find some excuse for the lack of such calls on her phone records.

 

[Gerontion]

<modsnip>

To clarify, it is mentioned in TheForeigners timeline that the 911 call from GC came at 5:22. TheForeigner does not mention the 911 from BB. It is mentioned by a poster in that thread that the BB 911 came at 5:22.

 

[CriminalMinds]

I'm surprised no one has asked that question before. THAT IS THE QUESTION OF THE YEAR. Why did the calls stop after the 911 call?
I’m gonna throw out some scenarios, feel free to shoot em on down so we can narrow it down to plausible:

1. Possible calls made to SG while she was on the phone with 911 do not register.
2. MP called her on a "burn/work" phone, if she had one to begin with.
3. MP hightailed it out of dodge and never called her back for whatever reason.
4. He found her, thus no need to make a call.
5. LE and MG have only released a partial transcript of the records.
6. Phone company does not track missed (unanswered) calls. Did she have Voicemail?
7. Power turned off to the phone.

That’s all my schedule can allow for now....feel free to elaborate.

#5,--- maybe #2

 

[Gerontion]

I am beginning to think that it is very likely her phone battery went dead. It is a terrible thing to contemplate. Imagine, she ventured into the marsh and quickly realized the folly of that decision. Addle-brained, cold, wet, disoriented, she somewhat collects her wits enough and reaches for her cell-phone........... her last chance to save herself, her lifeline. But the battery is dead........
We have talked about hypo(er)thermia and paradoxical undressing. Question: does it come on so fast that the subject would be rendered incapable of operating a cellphone if they had one on them?

 

[Vivalor]

I was also thinking that if she feel coming out of JB house and fell again running from GC house then maybe the phone's back came off and the battery fell out. It being dark and with her in a panic didn't wast time looking just grabbed it and ran. Just a thought. Either way still would like to find out if missed calls could be tracked or logged or even just incoming calls well on the other line.

 

[Peter Brendt]

To clarify, it is mentioned in TheForeigners timeline that the 911 call from GC came at 5:22. TheForeigner does not mention the 911 from BB. It is mentioned by a poster in that thread that the BB 911 came at 5:22.

There was a later post, but it fell victim to the cleansing after one of those little flame wars. That one stated SG's 911 call ended 5:14, BB was 5:22 and no official time for GC's call. But then, maybe I got it wrong, which would make the situation even clearer because id CC called at 5:22, BB had to call even later, which pushes MP's theoretical time window even more in the negative.

 

[WINDSOR]

Okay...okay so I know I said we all should move on from the time thing just to maybe get some other ideas out and other people talking but really quick. Sorry for back tracking a little here..lol
If BB called at 5:22 AM and not GC. And MP said him self that he left at 6 AM and if LE arrived at 6:10 then wouldn't that mean the MP didn't leave after he talked to GC. And that he then had about 38 min to find SG and take her out of Oak Beach? And if BB didn't see the suv then what would make one think that it would not have been easier for MP to pull over get out chase down SG and bring her back to his suv then leave? Then he would have also had about 10 min to get a little ways away from Oak Beach and plus LE would have no real reason at this point to be watching for his suv?

That is the point I have been trying to make from the outset; MP had time. Thank you for coming to the same conclusion.

 

[Gerontion]

Please give me the link that verifies that LE checked MP's phone for games. I have discounted his information because he says he was outside the gate and a neighbor across the street from JB says he was parked in front of the house. So the link would be important information. You are using the initials AK for Akeem Cruz (I assume). This might confuse someone trying to keep track of all the players. I don't see how you can possibly say with certainty that SG didn't make any more calls because her battery was dead. There could be other reasons. Like she was murdered, like she was too drugged to speak,like someone took her phone away (the most likely IMO, like she had more than one phone. Since you are about the only person left on this forum and new posters are trying to rely on you for information, it is very important that you state your theories and opinions as such and not as the gospel truth. And where is the link about a three way call with MP, MG and AC? I have been here since the beginning of the case and this is the first time I have heard this.

There have been many comments made as I have been trying to compose this reply. Obviously there is now much confusion over the information. There are so many errors now it is impossible (and futile) to keep up with them). All I can say is check the facts.

If it helps any, there was once mention of a three-way call:
"Brewer, the john, said he didn’t realize Gilbert was missing, or that she had run through the neighborhood, until he got a call in the days after. Pak, the driver, and Diaz, the boyfriend, dialed him on a three-way call to discuss what happened."

Source: SG timeline, by TF.

 

[Peter Brendt]

That is the point I have been trying to make from the outset; MP had time. Thank you for coming to the same conclusion.

<modsnip> the releavant time is between BB's sighting of SG and the time GC arrived at the gate. Since GC couldn't know police would need so long, he would have went to the gate after the call. That's a 30 second way.
MP said, he search in- and outside of OB and left about 6. He never said, he was till 6 in OB. Since GC didn't see him leave, he must have left OB before GC was at the gate. So give GC some minutes tollerance to grab some clothes, be generous, lets say 5, no even 10 minutes. In this time, MP had to tirn around his SUV, find SG (and he had no way to know which way she went), to become invisible including his SUV, so that BB when she saw SG didn't see MP's vehicle, grab her (while still not knowing where she was in the first place) without witnesses (we know a lot of people were getting up around that time, we know, she just had passed through the view of BB, who considered this weird enough to call 911) and then, again invisible, drive back through the gate ... no way!

 

[Vivalor]

<modsnip> the releavant time is between BB's sighting of SG and the time GC arrived at the gate. Since GC couldn't know police would need so long, he would have went to the gate after the call. That's a 30 second way.
MP said, he search in- and outside of OB and left about 6. He never said, he was till 6 in OB. Since GC didn't see him leave, he must have left OB before GC was at the gate. So give GC some minutes tollerance to grab some clothes, be generous, lets say 5, no even 10 minutes. In this time, MP had to tirn around his SUV, find SG (and he had no way to know which way she went), to become invisible including his SUV, so that BB when she saw SG didn't see MP's vehicle, grab her (while still not knowing where she was in the first place) without witnesses (we know a lot of people were getting up around that time, we know, she just had passed through the view of BB, who considered this weird enough to call 911) and then, again invisible, drive back through the gate ... no way!

<modsnip>
But last night well reading I came across this. Like I've said many of times never sure how much I can believe what reporters wright but this quoted as if it came from GC him self and hopping sense it's cbs it's a little more correct.

"All of a sudden, she took off, out from under the boat...And he took off after her. And I yelled to him to stop. And he didn't and he followed her around that way."
http://m.cbsnews.com/searchfullstory.rbml?catid=57344731&query=pets await

So then wouldn't this then pretty much say that MP did know what way SG went and where she was, and that he was going after her?

 

[Vivalor]

And also around the way were she ran wouldn't that have been were he jacket was found?