Pope's speech ignites worldwide controversy/ Islam insulted

[californiacarrie]

You have to forgive me, I've been without a computer for the last three weeks but I wanted to respond to some of your comments:

I do not profess to understand a religion that allows to murder innocent, but then I think of the current war?? I would like to see troops taken out of the Iraq, Afghanistan, so no more deaths from such young men, who are there to protect??

Can someone more informed explain suicide bombing, pregnant women who have taken their live along with their own unborn child?? How would that be judged at the end of their live?? also a survey revealed that 1 in 4 Muslims who have lived & some even born in the western world still agree with these killings?? pretty high ratio, & quite a disturbing one.

The Muslim religion is probably one of the few religions that has not been modified over time. Most of its teachings come from the first testament (of the Bible) when all of humanity (or what of it existed at the time) was at odds with religion and the Christians were the minority (Greek and Roman God systems were in place).
There are passages in the Qu'ran which do condone murder but under specific conditions (threat and oppression). It is my interpretation that suicide bombings come from translations of some of these passages, which tell the followers that dying in the name of God is worthy of the greatest reward. Many of those who commit such an act have been seduced into doing so by being told that all of their sins will be forgiven. There are specific scriptures in both the Bible and the Qu'ran which can support this, but then there are also specific scriptures which refute it. Suicide bombers are religious fanatics and not a clear representation of Muslim society. They come from sects of the religion which resemble cults - there are just more of them in a much smaller country, which is why this all seems more prescedent.

I agree with Windovervocalchords in that it seems to be a fairly twisted misunderstanding of teachings (any murder should not be justified). Bu I suppose we won't really know until we die...if even then.

As for the other stuff...the pregnancies and whatever - someone else somewhere along this thread made mention that these acts are more a product of culture, and not of the religion itself. There is no where in the Qu'ran where it states that a woman should die or be killed should she become pregnant out of wedlock anymore than the Bible states that abortion is a sin. Muslim women here in the states do not kill themselves, or are not killed for these reasons. It is a matter of the progressiveness (or lack of) of the country in which these people live and it kills me when these things are blamed on religion.

And lastly, this:

So basically, you just want to be free to practice your faith without politics and prejudice making you feel insecure and unsafe.
That's all any of us want.

is a great statement. :slap:

 

[windovervocalcords]

Ever since 9/11/01, Americans have been mystified by the motivation of the terrorists of that day. Actually, for many years, Israel has faced regular incidents with terrorists with the same motivation. It is hoped that this essay will help clarify some issues.

Those 19 Muslims of 9/11 are nearly always referred to as "suicide bombers" as are all of them in Israeli incidents. That certainly is the reality of the situation, but it is quite different from what they perceive it to be.

Yes, to some extent, there were political motivations, and the desire to please their leader, and the responsibility to follow orders. But a much higher motivation exists within extremist Islamic terrorists, a religious motivation. Since around 1970, a small but growing group of aberrant Muslims have been teaching a VERY improper understanding of their religious Koran. Since Muslims all believe that the Koran is the very words of God (Allah) Himself, when they are taught bizarre interpretations of the meaning of some sections of it, they come to truly believe that they are REQUIRED to do terrorist acts, against Israel (their "enemy") and the United States (Israel's friend, so their perceived "enemy"). On top of this believed requirement for such acts is the bonus of believing that, having done it (in a specific way), they will immediately go to Paradise (Heaven).

First of all, the Muslim Koran is much more similar to the Christian Bible than most people realize. Specifically, it VERY clearly states that suicide, under ANY conditions, is banned and a terrible sin. An example is in Sura 3, Imram's Family (3.139), "It is not for any soul to die, save by God's permission written down for an appointed time."

Therefore, from those terrorists' viewpoints, they are DEFINITELY not committing suicide!

It is necessary to now look at a small portion of their Holy Book, the Koran (Qur'an). In Sura (Chapter) 47, paragraph 4 and 5 are:

And when ye meet those who misbelieve - then striking off heads until ye have massacred them, and bind fast the bonds! Then either a free grant (of liberty) or a ransom until the war shall have laid down its burdens. That! - but if God please He would conquer them - but (it is) that He may try some of you by the others. And those who are slain in God's cause, their works shall not go wrong; He will guide them and set right their mind; and will make them enter into Paradise which He has told them of.

These two paragraphs seem to be the source of the problem. (Actually, there are some similar passages in the Koran, such as Suras 2.159 and 3.169 which indicate that those holy warriors who died fighting in God's cause are alive and in His Presence now.) The many thousands of words in the rest of the Koran are generally very peace-filled, probably far more so than the extensive violence in the Old Testament of the Bible.
http://mb-soft.com/public/terroris.html

​

 

[windovervocalcords]

"May the Eternal One, our Father in heaven, bless every effort to eliminate from our world any misuse of religion as an excuse for hatred or violence," he said.

He said Christians, Muslims and Jews should build on the "many common convictions" they shared.

"In our world today, religious, political, academic and economic leaders are being seriously challenged to improve the level of dialogue between peoples and between cultures," he told the delegation.

"To do this effectively requires a deepening of our mutual understanding and a shared dedication to building a society of ever greater justice and peace," he said.

"We need to know each other better and, on the strength of that mutual discovery, to build relationships not just of tolerance but of authentic respect," he added.
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-10-13T005219Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-272003-2.xml

 

[southcitymom]

"May the Eternal One, our Father in heaven, bless every effort to eliminate from our world any misuse of religion as an excuse for hatred or violence," he said.

He said Christians, Muslims and Jews should build on the "many common convictions" they shared.

"In our world today, religious, political, academic and economic leaders are being seriously challenged to improve the level of dialogue between peoples and between cultures," he told the delegation.

"To do this effectively requires a deepening of our mutual understanding and a shared dedication to building a society of ever greater justice and peace," he said.

"We need to know each other better and, on the strength of that mutual discovery, to build relationships not just of tolerance but of authentic respect," he added.
http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-10-13T005219Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-272003-2.xml

Good for the Pope. May his words continue to usher in a time of peace and respect among all faiths.

 

[californiacarrie]

"May the Eternal One, our Father in heaven, bless every effort to eliminate from our world any misuse of religion as an excuse for hatred or violence,"
The Pope found much better wording this time around. I hope this brings him a little more peace and respect among all faiths.

Windovervocalchords: Thanks for the article, which stated what I was trying to get accross in a much more eloquent, forthright, and understandable manner.

 

[southcitymom]

This is an excellent article regarding Muslim TV speaking out against their own extremists. Also, I followed it with a recent letter to the editor concerning this article. The letter addresses many of the concerns people have expressed on this thread about Muslims not speaking out.

Please notice that this article was not front page news - as articles regarding acts of terrorism always are. It was buried on the last page of the News section. Hmmmmm....does bad news sell more than good?

Muslim TV is big this time of year

By MARGARET COKER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 10/22/06
Ramallah, West Bank — A grandfatherly West Bank university administrator, Issa Abu Firas has spent more than five decades adhering to the strictures of the daytime fast during Ramadan.

Age doesn't make it easier to cope with occasional hunger pangs or thirst during the holy month, he says, so like millions of others in the Arab world, he focuses on something to help the time pass more quickly: the evening television lineup.

​

The Firas family of the West Bank city of Ramallah watches the popular Ramadan series ÒThe Renegades,Ó a 30-part series that dramatizes how extremism hurts families, children and society.

"When the hours don't seem to pass, I start to daydream. I think what's going to happen on my soap tonight," he said.

At sundown, Muslims break the fast. It can be a festive affair, like an American holiday, with the extended family spending time gorging on a big meal and then digesting it in front of the television.

Arab broadcasters have spent tens of millions of dollars producing dramatic series for their rapt audiences during Ramadan, which comes to an end early this week. More than 100 private Arab-language networks across the Middle East fight for satellite and broadcast viewers.

More at link

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/news/stories/2006/10/22/1022natramadan.html

Letter to the editor:
Muslims' anti-extremism welcome

A major concern of mine has been the apparent silence on the part of the Muslim community as a whole regarding religious extremism promoted by a minority of its members. Finally, I see a news article in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution that Muslim television has been speaking out against terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism ("Muslim TV is big this time of year," News, Oct. 22). Apparently, the Islamic community is not being silent.

The AJC needs to highlight such positive information and not relegate it to the next to the last page of the B section.

RALPH MARION, Sandy Springs