Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

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sleuth-d- said:
maybe he has been telling tall stories - what he calls white lies - for a long time... starting with stories to fellow school children about his legs - 'shark attack', 'legs were a special acquisition from toys'r'us' [2 examples c/o the biography]. maybe it morphed into compulsive lying...

the roadside shooting of the dog, the night-time dual carriageway shooting, most of the 'defending reeva from intruder' version.

bigging himself up.
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He didn't shoot the dog?
 
cottonweaver said:
Yes, so many instances of binge drinking have been revealed. Remember Roux and his long speech about how, as an athlete, he never drank in the on-season between specific dates, and only in moderation socially when he was not in training. (IIRC the dates Roux gave were very significant but sadly I can't remember them offhand.)

A tenuous link: From some of the articles WSers have linked to this week, a few authors described Op's mum as being "hard-drinking". His crime has nothing to do with his mother, but it still makes me wonder if there is any connection in terms of alcohol abuse. ( I know nothing about the correlation so happy to be put right.) I certainly don't recall the family ever mentioning it, even though that was the reputation.

I found it pretty shocking that Henke, as posted earlier, would plan a business meeting whilst baby OP was scheduled for his operation ...so I am sure she needed any solace she could get.

As for this being a "case that just keeps giving" re. Media, it keeps giving for forum members too. I am still marvelling from the info in a post upthread, at his glib lies re local mayor building him the house in Gemona and that the Italians had also built him a track in his honour. Presumably he thought lying in an interview in an Afrikaaner mag would not be disputed by Italians, or the lying had just become so habitual.
(To anyone who thinks I am unfairly damning, this continual fibbing crops up endlessly in accounts about OP.)

PS. Back on the Bateman book, from the link given by Patcee, I am at the bail hearing suspension stage and OP has just rejected his father's consoling gesture, outstretched hand, as he goes back to his cop cell, presumably this is the brush-off because Daddy is not playing ball with agreeing to take the blame for the ammunition as opposed to simply being a sign of past "wounds".
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The only person I remember mentioning his "hard drinking" mother was Professor Voerster, the "Oscar has GAD" psychiatrist. The only people she spoke with were Oscar's peeps.
 
sleuth-d- said:
his copy of love sick is this one... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Sick-Sue-William-Silverman-ebook/dp/B009EQG992
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This seemed like a strange title for a book for OP to have and I was curious. I googled a review of it and found the first chapter. One screen's worth was more than enough for me. Why would a man have such a book. Indeed, why would he have some of the others. He's one very, very strange individual IMO.

Love Sick: One Woman's Journey Through Sexual Addiction (entire first chapter)

http://www.suewilliamsilverman.com/..._addiction__now_available_in_paperb_12175.htm
 
cottonweaver said:
Coincidentally I am just reading the extract of Behind the Door that someone kindly linked to. In it there is an account (much mocked by those present on the night) of OP actually dancing in nightclub with his gun. So maybe that little BIB could be reasonably possibly true!!! The more I find out about OP - more I think what a jerk!
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After reading this post, I just googled an article that I read awhile back by a psychologist who was discussing her theory that Oscar viewed his gun as an additional prosthetic.

That didn't come up in the search but THIS did!

http://www.williamkwolfrum.com/2011...ur-penis-will-remain-small-and-insignificant/
 
foxbluff said:
LOL... it could be that the uncle didn't know that OP drinks... I've known any number of adults who conceal from their parents that they drink... and a few other habits as well. :)
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BIB - if Uncle A didn't know that OP drank, why would he ask for the ban to be lifted? There's no need for a ban to be lifted on something you didn't do in the first place, is there?
 
PrimeSuspect said:
Great sleuthing Val. I can't make out the titles even with my glasses on, lol, but what a funny place to keep such books, I naturally assumed they were cookery books, more fool me. I wonder if the 'narcissists and mind games' was a gift to him. :p

The list of books reveals to me that OP read up about forensics and police investigation in his spare time, who knows, maybe he secretly desired a career in LE after finishing racing.

In any event, he knew it was wrong to take Reeva's body downstairs but he did it anyway. The Netcare call has never been verified to the extent of them instructing him to bring Reeva to the hospital, this is puzzling imo.

If OP was so grief stricken why didn't he just sit at the steps with Reeva, let everyone else fetch and carry? OP returning upstairs is a big red flag, as we've covered before.
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And all adults, excluding those with medical knowledge, should know you never move a seriously injured person, especially with an injury to the head. Apart from that, her arm was virtually amputated. Even after all this time, I feel quite sick when I think of her horrific injuries.
 
sleuth-d- said:
agree about the phone most likely being cited as irrelevant to masipa [cf. ammunition type, whatsapp messages/relationship state]. but something needed wiping - and justified the risk of taking the phone.
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What if the phones indicated use during the time OP was pretending they were asleep? iPads too. But aren't all phone calls recorded by the phone company anyway even if they are deleted on the phone?
 
Errrr said:
What if the phones indicated use during the time OP was pretending they were asleep? iPads too. But aren't all phone calls recorded by the phone company anyway even if they are deleted on the phone?
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I'd like to know more about how RS was working on her speech... did she have her own Ipad and if so was it synched with OP's new one and wiped everything(good reason for an argument)?

Was she working from a notepad, taperecorder, a recorder through her phone, I mean just what was she working on that she had needed to spend so long at OP's, past the time she had initially planned, surely not just her laundry and what ever happened to the contract/s that OP claimed to have helped her(the one with an actual law degree) with?

Why weren't witnesses called to corroborate or deny OP's claims about there being a contract or that RS had messaged anyone to say she staying there that night with proof of time and what was said?

Going back to her speech, why wasn't anyone called to let the court know what time that was scheduled for and how much time RS would have needed to get there from OP's, plus her apparel, did she have what she needed for it or did she need to allow to stop off at the Myer's first.... so many questions still unanswered.:/
 
Examples of Roux’s duplicity at the bail hearing:

12:50 Roux says the State omitted premeditated murder in the charge sheet. He says the document states murder.
On page 1 it says "Murder" and on p.2 it says "Murder that is pre-planned or premeditated".

12:53 Roux says the fact that Pistorius and Steenkamp spent the night together is consistent with a loving relationship and is inconsistent with murder.
1) OP had never told Reeva that he loved her.
2) How is spending the night together consistent with a loving relationship. Killers can spend every night with their wife or partner.
3) Roux is also saying they spent the night together and this is inconsistent with murder. The sheer number of women who are either married or in relationships who spend most if not all nights together and are killed by their partners in SA is mind-boggling.

12:55 Roux says the defence demonstrated that every allegation made in the charge sheet against Pistorius does not support the State’s claim that he planned to murder Steenkamp. Roux adds that Pistorius could have killed Steenkamp in the bathroom if he wanted to murder her. The locked toilet door explains why Steenkamps bladder was empty when she died.
Compare this statement to 13:46 where he says Pistorius didn’t know the toilet door was locked.
We only have OP’s testimony that the door was locked. This is not proof.

13:38 Roux continues his closing argument. He says although Pistorius lives in a secure estate it doesn’t exclude the fact that violent crime has happened in such estates before. He quotes an incident where a wealthy CEO was shot in a secure estate in Pretoria as an example that living in a secure estate “doesn’t tip the scale”.
The fact is that only 11 crime incidents were reported in OP’s estate over a period of 3 years. Of those, one was the killing of Reeva and another OP’s so-called “stolen” watch. Of the remaining 9, the others were cases of fraud and theft and a house robbery on 24 October 2011. There were no other house robberies or burglaries.

13:43 The defence says Nel’s argument doesn’t prove premeditated murder. Roux says Botha conceded that if Pistorius shouted out to an “intruder”, it’s plausible to think Steenkamp could’ve locked herself in the toilet to save herself.
It’s also plausible that the door was unlocked.

13:44 Roux says Pistorius carrying Steenkamp’s body downstairs shows “positive steps” to save her life.
Prof. Saayman said that Reeva “did not take more than a few breaths after suffering her head wound.” No blood was found in her airways, suggesting she only breathed only a few times before dying. This testimony was not contested by the Defence. As he sat with her for "I don't know how long" what were the positive steps - we know he didn't ring for an ambulance immediately but chose to ring a buddy. Or was it putting his fingers down her throat when she was obviously already dead. Dr Stipp said her, “corneas were already drying out which was a sign of her demise“

13:46 Nair asks why a burglar would lock himself in a toilet.
Roux says Pistorius didn’t know the toilet door was locked. Then why did Roux say earlier that it was. (see 12:55 above).

13:48 Roux concedes that there may have been an argument between Pistorius and Steenkamp, but there are no witnesses to confirm it.
Why would he make a concession like this? Obviously he wants to see what evidence comes out at the trial before making any such admission one way or the other.

14:05 Roux moves on to the State’s witness accounts that screaming was heard an hour before the shooting. He hammers the State for using a witness who alleges there was screaming in the house, but who cannot identify the voices.
Roux’ own witnesses, the Nhlegenthwas and Motshuanes - who were next door neighbours on either side of OP’s house - couldn’t identify the voices either.

14:09 Roux responds to the magistrate by drawing doubt over the distance the neighbour’s houses are. He then says the witness statement does not fit in with the applicant’s version of what happened. Roux criticises the investigating officer’s testimony of another witness who says she heard screaming and then gunshots.
How can Roux assume that the application’s version is the truth and not a complete lie/fabrication. Has he never had a client who lied before.

14:26 Roux to Nair: “We appeal to you to find there exists no objective facts to show this is a Schedule 6 offence.” He says there was no motive for the murder. This was an extremely loving relationship. (Pistorius cries as his brother comforts him)
Where was any proof provided that it was a loving relationship. Surely he can’t be referring to the whatsapp messages because
1) OP never said he loved her and . “Boo, xx” etc. mean absolutely nothing.
2) Reeva said that she was scared of him sometimes and how he snaps at her. Other things were also mentioned in these messages which demonstrated things weren’t all peaches and cream.

14:36 Roux says the firearm going off at the restaurant does not prove Pistorius has the propensity to commit crime. He says Pistorius’s row with soccer player march Mark Batchelor wherein he said he would “break” Batchelor’s legs, was merely an expression. “You don’t mean anything by it.”
So a threat is not a threat, just meaningless words? Yet when a murder has been committed and an accused has previously said words to the effect, “I’ll kill you” or any other form of threat, that’s one of the first things that’s raised.

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/day-3-pistorius-bail-hearing
 
Cherwell said:
I really don't know about the trophies, someone could have quickly picked them up and replaced them if any were out of place. There were a lot of OP's mates on the scene.

As for the "battered with the cricket bat" story, I think this probably came out of someone's genuine first impression, seeing the exit wound in Reeva's head and the bloody bat. They made an assumption which turned out to be wrong.
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BIB 1 - No offence, but methinks you miss the point

1) The rumour leaked to the press wasn't that there were a few trophies "out of place" but according to the report in the Daily Star Sunday and the Oscar Pistorius' trophies were strewn all over the death flat and some were "damaged" according to the report in the Daily Star Sunday which is what was being discussed. So "strewn all around" and "some were damaged" is the premise I was working with.

2) Considering the time-span were looking at, (i.e. between the last volley and the police arriving), which "mates" you reckon could have "quickly picked them up and replaced them"? IIRC Carice and Stander were just 2 or 3 mins on the scene when Dr Stipp arrived and Stander stayed near or outside the door confirmed both by Baba, who arrived as they did, and Stipp who found him outside when he arrived. So unless Stipp joined a conspiracy with the Standers to pervert the course of justice for OP the only candidate would be Carice, who, in the few minutes after arriving and before, unknown to her, Dr Stipp would arrive, and without an inkling of what happened nor there being time enough for OP to explain and beg her, between wails, sobs, and pleas to help him save Reeva's life, and interject something to the effect of, 'would you mind helping me cover for killing my gf in a rage before the medics or the police arrive', no more than enter his home and with Reeva bleeding, dead, or dying in OP's arms or on the floor, noticed the mess and in a moment of organisational illumination decided that as she's there she might as well do a bit of tidying up for him, and being the hyper active person she is, in a jiffy whizzed around picking up and replacing all the trophies in the cabinet or on the shelf on top. BUT, and this is the real point you missed, Carice's work tidying up must have been all for nothing since either she or those "mates" must have strewn the trophies back onto the floor again so that a police source, according to some of the more dubious tabloid press, was able to see the mess and leak to the media that there were trophies strewn all around! ; - )

BIB 2 - I have no issue with your theory as a possibility even though I personally am not convinced that is how it went. But, I do have issue with 3 things:

Issue 1: That a "police source" could leak something as brutal as that to the press without it having been confirmed since that must surely have caused further distress to Reeva's family who were suffering enough with the fact she had been shot. Fortunately, the member of Reeva's family who ID'ed Reeva's body told the press they saw no injuries of that category.

Issue 2: That the tabloid and other nefarious press continued to plaster the story of the crushed skull on their front pages for weeks AFTER the bail hearing when it was confirmed that the autopsy showed no beating with the cricket bat.

Issue 3: To my knowledge not one newspaper has retracted the false information.
 
@G.bng,

You forgot Frank, the person OP hired to look after him and keep his home clean and tidy. Also, I had noted some while ago that by "strewn about" it could have just meant that he had trophies all over the place, plus there was that box of trophies and such in that downstairs room and some of them looked a little worn... if not actually broken, certainly they weren't being displayed with pride in a case.

Re the no retractions, perhaps they know something we don't? There has been a lot of behind closed doors carrying on in this case, more than I've ever seen and seldom even heard about before. Also, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if OP had poked RS with the bat, just to see if she responded, and that's where that gob of blood/tissue on it could have come from so technically I suppose you could say it may have come in contact with her at some point that night/morning and I doubt that could be disproved.
 
Val1 said:
@G.bng,

You forgot Frank, the person OP hired to look after him and keep his home clean and tidy. Also, I had noted some while ago that by "strewn about" it could have just meant that he had trophies all over the place, plus there was that box of trophies and such in that downstairs room and some of them looked a little worn... if not actually broken, certainly they weren't being displayed with pride in a case.

Re the no retractions, perhaps they know something we don't? There has been a lot of behind closed doors carrying on in this case, more than I've ever seen and seldom even heard about before. Also, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if OP had poked RS with the bat, just to see if she responded, and that's where that gob of blood/tissue on it could have come from so technically I suppose you could say it may have come in contact with her at some point that night/morning and I doubt that could be disproved.
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Absolutely right, Val! Frank has all the answers imo, if OP can smuggle his phone out to Carl to delete messages, lord knows what OP got Frank to do on that night. If OP was in the clear, Frank should have taken the stand to testify to that fact, as he wasn't, it will always be a black mark against OP, imo.

Also, your thought about the bat contact is certainly feasible, prodding to check RS was dead, yep, I could see that because it was vital that she was. That's what is so hard to accept, the four shots to KILL. JMO
 
For me, this was the “gotcha” moment, just like something straight out of a movie:

Nel barked: "Are you sure? Are you sure, Mr Pistorius, that Reeva did not scream after the first shot? Are you, Mr Pistorius?"

There was a long, electrifying silence as the court awaited the reply.

Pistorius leaned back in his chair and appeared to steel himself. Finally he said: "My lady, I wish she had let me know she was there."

Nel persisted. "After you fired the first shot, did she scream?"

"No, my lady."

"Are you sure? Would you have heard her?"

"I don't think I would have heard her."

"Exactly," said Nel.

Pistorius said, "A gunshot went off, my ears were ringing."

Nel demanded, "How can you exclude the fact she was screaming if you couldn't hear?"Pistorius replied: "If I couldn't hear it then I couldn't hear."

Notice in the line above he says, “If I couldn’t … then I couldn’t hear”. If this was the truth he’d be more likely to say, “I told you, my ears were ringing. I couldn’t hear anything.”

He also said, "I don't think I would have heard her." If this was the truth he would have said, “I didn’t hear her”.


IMO the most disgusting thing he said during the trial was, “I wish she let me know she was there” where he's blaming Reeva for her own death.
 
Judgejudi said:
For me, this was the “gotcha” moment, just like something straight out of a movie:

Nel barked: "Are you sure? Are you sure, Mr Pistorius, that Reeva did not scream after the first shot? Are you, Mr Pistorius?"

There was a long, electrifying silence as the court awaited the reply.

Pistorius leaned back in his chair and appeared to steel himself. Finally he said: "My lady, I wish she had let me know she was there."

Nel persisted. "After you fired the first shot, did she scream?"

"No, my lady."

"Are you sure? Would you have heard her?"

"I don't think I would have heard her."

"Exactly," said Nel.

Pistorius said, "A gunshot went off, my ears were ringing."

Nel demanded, "How can you exclude the fact she was screaming if you couldn't hear?"Pistorius replied: "If I couldn't hear it then I couldn't hear."

Notice in the line above he says, “If I couldn’t … then I couldn’t hear”. If this was the truth he’d be more likely to say, “I told you, my ears were ringing. I couldn’t hear anything.”

He also said, "I don't think I would have heard her." If this was the truth he would have said, “I didn’t hear her”.


IMO the most disgusting thing he said during the trial was, “I wish she let me know she was there” where he's blaming Reeva for her own death.
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Well noted JJudi re: his lies. I'd like to revisit his x with Nel and pick up more on those long pauses and the "I think" and "I would have" he repeatedly replied with, just don't know if I could stomach it again.

When my daughter visited several weeks ago, I played the video of Nel badgering OP about admitting he shot and killed Reeva, and the video where OP shouts "Get the **** out of my house!", she couldn't stand it and said, 'no more mum!', lol. :tantrum: Well, she did ask how the trial was going so I thought I'd give her a sample. :p


Also, the "My lady, I wish she had let me know she was there." just irks me for two reasons, the gall he has to even say it and secondly, that Masipa bought it.
 
Chriselda Lewis @Chriseldalewis
#OscarPistoriua NPA will appeal OP culpable homicide conviction on points of law. They seek to secure a murder conviction. #sabcnews

#OscarPistorius Gerrie Nel & Adv Andrea Johnson studied judgment and consulted with other law experts before decision to appeal. #sabcnews

#OscarPistorius The Investigating officer is expected to hand over the appeal papers to OP's lawyers this morning. #SABCNews

#OscarPistorius The NPA will appeal the culpable homicide verdict and the sentence. #SABCNews

#OscarPistorius SABC News understands the NPA will file appeal papers in the North Gauteng High Court before NOON today. #sabcnews

https://twitter.com/Chriseldalewis
 
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