Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

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Mr Fossil said:
Agreed, I don't think she opened the window, at least not as part of this story (he or she may have opened it earlier, but that's not important).

In his version OP says he thought it was intruders who he heard opening the window and, sticking to the same story, because he knows that there was no intruder he must have been mistaken and it must have been Reeva that he heard opening the window. That's the apparent mistake he wants us to believe he makes.

So there are two levels to his story. The first is what he wants us to understand he mistakenly believed at the time (an intruder) and the second level is what he wants us to realise must have happened. Neither are true or what actually happened. I am following the second level e.g Reeva's implied part in his version.

I hope this helps ... sorry for any confusion!
Click to expand...

Thanks

The only confusion is to someone who hasn't followed the trial or the evidence IMO.

There were....................no intruders that is so clear an imbecile could see that !!
Windows/blinds/lights on /lights off..................all absolute rubbish.
He flipping executed Reeva it's as simple as that.
Come back to me ...............anyone..........and give me an explanation of photo 55 and show me or tell me that wasn't the scene on the morning after the execution!
Nel sorry mate.................you let you team/photographers /investigators/police down................they are gutted with this decision because you allowed it and didn't back them up IMO.
Those photographs were the real deal and the court should have had it 'rammed down it's throat' for want of a better phrase lol.

Photo 55 is the key to this case and it was ignored completely by the court..................absolutely ridiculous IMO.

Masipa should not have been given the chance to deliver this ...........................crap judgement that most of the world is up in arms about...............ludicrous but I bet the next phase is worse I can feel it I really can.
 
Val1 said:
Two reasons off the top of my head, to keep HB off the stand and because the judge let the DT introduce testimony without a proper foundation/evidence to support it. I also think the PT was so certain that the law was on their side that they forgot DT teams aren't about the truth, but whatever will grant them a win for their client.
Click to expand...

Bloody hell Val....................sorry for blashphening at you btw lol but....................
That is my exact thoughts the BiB.
Thanks for that I thought i was going mad :)
 
Val1 said:
BBM I see what you did... :) For the record, yes I agree too much testimony was let in without documented evidence or even a proper foundation.
Click to expand...

I said my thoughts Val lol..........................if you saw something else in my post (mentioning Frank) it was unintentional on my part exept he is one of the major bits of the puzzle that was allowed to get away.......................the state should have 'dragged' him into court and asked him questions even if he did the 'dumb and dumber'sketch they really should have......................he heard the execution from the beginning to the end of that there is no doubt IMO.

This whole farce of an appeal is because the job was not done properly in the first place...................we have all seen and heard it IMO
 
mrjitty said:
amateurish?

His guilt was obvious to just about everyone except Masipa.

Why would calling the builder make any difference to a Judge when who takes direct witness evidence (witnesses hearing a women screaming) and simply throws it out?

Allegedly Nel was dealing with what should be the elite of the SA legal establishment

Oh look judge - here are some jeans out the window

Oh look judge - a photo of a smashed in bath tub cover

Should he spoon feed her?

Shows how absurd this case was
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with your thoughts....................I'm trying to convey that Nel/prosecution didn't do enough IMO.
You've admitted yourself "....

"His guilt was obvious to just about everyone" ........you said that mate :) so why didn't the 'creme de la creme' of SA prosecutors Mr.Nel nail his arse to the wall?

Calling the builders 'workers' might have made a difference....................yes indeed

Oh look judge - here are some jeans out the window

Oh look judge - a photo of a smashed in bath tub cover

Should he spoon feed her?

Yes..................it's called bloody evidence in a murder trial and should be submitted for perusal and deliberation by the court ffs !!!!!!!
That's what trials are all about fgs I'm missing your point here it seems?
Please enlighten me.................
 
Apology if this has been answered before but reading the above informative posts makes me so irate! What are the chances of a new trial.....under a different judge?
 
snipped by me................

MrMitty.

The crime scene photos ought to have been the slam dunk.

You can only shake your head.[/QUOTE]

Well ................photo 55 for starters was the 'Slam dunk' IMO but Masipa ignored it and basically called all the photographers and investigating officers liars and cheats !
She should be prosecuted herself along with the 2 assessors IMO for this blatant travesty of justice..................corrupt ?
Who knows IMHO :)
 
I am just trying to be realistic

Counsel need not spoon feed a judge nor explain the law (cf jury)

I can't blame Nel for failing to explain the significance of the stoved in bath cover when he produced same photo in evidence via witness for the judge! Ditto photos of a crime scene where the accused cannot explain how it differed to his story under X. Nel stated OP was lying!

What more can he say of it?

He did not fail on these peripheral issues but in the heart of the case

If Judge won't accept witnesses hearing the victim screaming, what more can help?

If the Judge sees photos which plainly show the accused is lying, and Nel says that straight - what more can prosecution do?

Its all very well to say Nel should also have done this and that, but the Court always finds a way to the desired outcome.
 
mrjitty said:
Would you easily get bail in a murder trial in england?

My understanding elsewhere is that the prosecution merely indicates the strength of its case (after all, it is asking for detention of a citizen) but that it is not so contested as in SA

e.g the cross examination of Botha seemed strange

But then he seemed determined to be an idiot in the stand

I do wonder if he deliberately scuppered the trial.

How can it be possible for the defence to allege the crime scene had been altered?

that possibly is bizarre
Click to expand...

I used to suspect that he must have been bribed to say some of the things he did while pretending that OP was guilty of premeditated murder. It often looked as if he was on both sides at the same time.
 
L2L said:
Apology if this has been answered before but reading the above informative posts makes me so irate! What are the chances of a new trial.....under a different judge?
Click to expand...

I think the chance of a retrial under a different Judge is a remote possibility. But I would love to see it even if it is just to see if OP pukes again! Also, OP would not be able to afford Roux again unless money is suddenly available from hidden sources or lent to him or Roux volunteers. I think a retrial should happen but I don't think it will.
 
mrjitty said:
I am just trying to be realistic

Counsel need not spoon feed a judge nor explain the law (cf jury)

I can't blame Nel for failing to explain the significance of the stoved in bath cover when he produced same photo in evidence via witness for the judge! Ditto photos of a crime scene where the accused cannot explain how it differed to his story under X. Nel stated OP was lying!

What more can he say of it?

He did not fail on these peripheral issues but in the heart of the case

If Judge won't accept witnesses hearing the victim screaming, what more can help?

If the Judge sees photos which plainly show the accused is lying, and Nel says that straight - what more can prosecution do?

Its all very well to say Nel should also have done this and that, but the Court always finds a way to the desired outcome.
Click to expand...

It appears the the Judge and her assessors were not listening in court and did not bother to go over any of the prosecution evidence later. They were blinded by OP's supposed remorse and Roux' deceptive arguments.
 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-detective-hilton-1926756

Oscar Pistorius trial: Detective Hilton Botha reveals star could go free because of shocking pictures of the scene

He said: “It was supposed to be a bail application. A bail application is there to say, ‘would this person stand bail, would he not leave the country, would he not

interfere with the witnesses’.

“That was not the question being asked of me. The question was, ‘Is he guilty or not?’ All the statements and stuff we were waiting for, forensics and ballistics, I didn’t have. I feel I was thrown in the deep end and I had to try to answer all questions.”

Botha claimed that he knew of two people who had changed their minds about talking to police.

“At that stage I had witnesses who I wanted to keep on my side,” Botha said. “There were witnesses I’d heard of that I wanted to get statements from but then they changed their minds.

“It sounds to me like someone spoke to them and they don’t want to get involved.”
 
BDlive ‏@BDliveSA 34 Min.Vor 34 Minuten

SCA sentences former Fidentia boss Brown to jail http://ow.ly/F8rxz

nat makhubele ‏@yoltsa 6 Min.Vor 6 Minuten

@BDliveSA is #Pistorius watching?
-.-.-.-.-
http://www.bdlive.co.za/companies/2014/12/01/sca-sentences-former-fidentia-boss-brown-to-jail

SCA sentences former Fidentia boss Brown to jail

FORMER Fidentia boss J Arthur Brown was sentenced on Monday to in effect 15 years in jail after the Supreme Court of Appeal (SCA) set aside his previous sentence for fraud.

Brown received 15 years’ imprisonment on each of two fraud charges. The sentences will run concurrently.

The protracted case is widely regarded as one of the biggest corporate scandals in South Africa.

The National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) had appealed the R75,000 fine and suspended jail term handed down by the High Court in the Western Cape last May.
 
NÓNG: Oscar Pistorius đã nhận tội?
*Sohanews - 17/02/2013 17:18

Theo lời bạn thân Oscar, Justin Divaris tiết lộ đêm qua, ngôi sao điền kinh người Nam Phi quả thực đã bắn chết Reeva. Bởi ngay sau khi phạm tội, Oscar đã gọi điện đến cho Justin và nói trong tiếng khóc nấc nức nở.

Google translator:
According to a close friend Oscar, Justin Divaris revealed last night, star South African athletics was indeed shot Reeva. As soon as sin, Oscar Justin phoned to say the cries and sobs hiccup.


...... but OP never had been drunk??

* link doesn't work, sorry
 
FromGermany said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-detective-hilton-1926756

Oscar Pistorius trial: Detective Hilton Botha reveals star could go free because of shocking pictures of the scene

He said: “It was supposed to be a bail application. A bail application is there to say, ‘would this person stand bail, would he not leave the country, would he not interfere with the witnesses’.

“That was not the question being asked of me. The question was, ‘Is he guilty or not?’ All the statements and stuff we were waiting for, forensics and ballistics, I didn’t have. I feel I was thrown in the deep end and I had to try to answer all questions.”

Botha claimed that he knew of two people who had changed their minds about talking to police.

“At that stage I had witnesses who I wanted to keep on my side,” Botha said. “There were witnesses I’d heard of that I wanted to get statements from but then they changed their minds.

“It sounds to me like someone spoke to them and they don’t want to get involved.”
Click to expand...

The BIB is exactly the point I made a few posts further back. It sounds as if the way this hearing was conducted is indeed not the norm in South Africa.

As for the witnesses he refers to, one of these could be Frank. Another possibility, of course, is other close neighbours.
 
WilliamMunter said:
I know it is the Daily Mail but interesting nonetheless. Carl's not shaving until his brother gets out of jail. Hopefully it will be of Rasputin proportions.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ising-details-jailed-athlete-s-life-bars.html
Click to expand...

The OP family continue to confound me.

Why is Carl growing his beard - is this some kind of protest? He'll be tying yellow ribbons on trees around Pretoria next. Instead of feeling grateful that - so far- his "bro" got off lightly and instead of fading quietly into the background, he wants to make these public gestures as if there has been an injustice against his brother. If, on the other hand he wants to show solidarity with his brother there are surely other private ways of doing so.

This interview also demonstrates to me that this family just can't live without the media. Despite all their statements regarding the media's bias against their brother and they want privacy now. Oscar's past fame was very important to their prestige and now his notoriety is too much for them. If their main concern was their brother, and the close bonds they are always speaking of, they could just continue their support without booking interviews.

He recounts a moment in the prison when the helium balloons explode and how he & Aimee dive for cover thinking a shot has gone off and then erupt into uncontrollable laughter. No irony noticed.
No mention of Reeva of course.
 
cottonweaver said:
The OP family continue to confound me.

Why is Carl growing his beard - is this some kind of protest? He'll be tying yellow ribbons on trees around Pretoria next. Instead of feeling grateful that - so far- his "bro" got off lightly and instead of fading quietly into the background, he wants to make these public gestures as if there has been an injustice against his brother. If, on the other hand he wants to show solidarity with his brother there are surely other private ways of doing so.

This interview also demonstrates to me that this family just can't live without the media. Despite all their statements regarding the media's bias against their brother and they want privacy now. Oscar's past fame was very important to their prestige and now his notoriety is too much for them. If their main concern was their brother, and the close bonds they are always speaking of, they could just continue their support without booking interviews.

He recounts a moment in the prison when the helium balloons explode and how he & Aimee dive for cover thinking a shot has gone off and then erupt into uncontrollable laughter. No irony noticed.
No mention of Reeva of course.
Click to expand...

:goodpost: Very well said
 
The article LINKed below states (quoting Carl) that poor Oscar sits confined in his 6ft x 8ft cell 17 hrs a day, with only 1 hr to spend outside & 1 hr for exercise. Ok...what about the other 5 hours? Am I missing something, or does SA only have 21 hours in a day?

Carl also states that his brother does NOT have a "private bathroom". Rather, he is allotted a stool to sit on in a communal shower room. Really??? Are we to feel sorrow for Oscar for not having a "private bathroom" while in prison serving a sentence for killing young Reeva?

These Pistorius family members are beginning to annoy me. I use to feel sorry for Aimee & Carl, as they are only supporting their brother, they of course love him dearly and want to believe as much as possible, what he says. But I now think this family, including Carl & Aimee, have created part of this disaster called "Blade Runner", by excusing and justifying all the missteps and inappropriate behavior Oscar has been given a "free pass" for in the past, leading up to this young woman losing her much too short life.

As 'cottonweaver' has stated, why don't they show their support/care for Oscar in private? Why all the media interviews, public comments through their PR rep, and social media Tweets, etc? Weren't they the ones who asked (publicly) for their privacy? . . . and agreed, Carl growing a beard while Oscar incarcerated (for killing Reeva) is just so lame! And what meaning is that suppose to be conveying? What purpose does that statement serve? Poor, poor Oscar has to spend a measly 10 months behind bars for murdering an innocent, young, beautiful (inside & out) woman? Or, poor Oscar doesn't get a private bathroom? Or isn't my brother swell, he's helping TB victims build muscle by telling them to go use some weights? I don't know, I'm confused by the "beard growing" statement.

P.S....I don't picture Oscar wanting to play basketball with a bunch of large prison inmates, or hanging with TB infected prison patients. I just don't.

Link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ising-details-jailed-athlete-s-life-bars.html
 
Absolutely astonishing, isn't it .. that whole family's mindset and behaviour seems to be completely different to the majority of the rest of the planet .. it's all very peculiar/weird :-/
 
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