KY PROJECT KENTUCKY - Unidentified Persons Cold Cases

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by MadMcGoo, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    LOoooOOoving the maps!!

    I see what you mean now about the Bowling Green area and SW corner... o_O

    ETA: These males in the Mississippi, I’m not seeing any foul play listed... do they coincide with a flood or anything that would indicate they could have ended up there from some distance away?? (These waterways are so confusing to me!)
     
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  2. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Kentucky, serial killers, murdered men, and someone who “had a reputation for stalking bus stations and highways searching for young male transients [and] is suspected of drugging and sexually assaulting young men in several states.”!!!

    I may have found something!
    I was looking for a possible match to our guy with the ATL shirt and dime in his hand and found this MP I’d never seen before...

    Christoph R. Zahn – The Charley Project

    Which led me to this MP, whom I’d also never seen before...

    Mitchell Manns – The Charley Project

    :eek: I just found them, but already I see some potential connections!

    ETA: emphasis
     
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  3. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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  4. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    UP94 - Chris Zahn ... the PMI would need to be 2 days in order for this to fit though! :confused: 06C22973-6012-4437-B795-2CB8F686B38E.jpeg
     
  5. ClaireNC

    ClaireNC Well-Known Member

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    Good thought, but the level of decomp doesn't fit with the two day interval and distance from Georgia to Kentucky. April in Kentucky, decomp wouldn't been that fast. IMO

    Interesting find on Hale and the possible connection to other cases. Do we know if he had ties to Kentucky? Notice his arrests were for fraud. I wonder why no sex assault charges and if they think he is also a serial killer?

    ETA: Yes Hale does have ties to Floyd County KY according to the legal case linked above. Hale v. State
    On February 2, 1993, Cobb County Deputy Janes and another Cobb Deputy, along with GBI agent Cox and Select's Jones, went to Floyd County, Kentucky in an effort to find Hale and to obtain a search warrant for his residence there. While they were unable to find Hale, Floyd County Sheriff Thompson, based on a five-page handwritten statement of Deputy Janes summarizing the investigation, portions of which he independently verified, signed the affidavit and a search warrant for Hale's home was issued. Found in Hale's bedroom during that search were Zahn's camera bag, with his handwritten name tag partially obliterated by a black marker, his two cameras, and an Amish quilt which Zahn had purchased in Pennsylvania for his mother. Also taken by the officers were numerous canceled checks and a handwritten two-page letter bearing the signature "Harry E. Hale" or "Harry."
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  6. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    Yah :/ and I’m not seeing any room for error in the circumstances of Chris’s disappearance. Dates seem to be concrete. I’m still looking at Hale though. I’m hoping to find something about these ‘suspected’ incidents...
     
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  7. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    Yes!! I really think he could be connected to some our cases! From just reading the one court case, look at how many elements can be checked off... young males, sexual assault, drifters/travelers, body(s) never found...

    I just haven’t seen anything that would suggest how he may have killed these men, or what other crimes he’s suspected of! That’s where the clues are going to be I think!

    ETA: how close is Floyd County to any of the UID?
     
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  8. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    Just found this....
    A69B2D5F-3544-4904-A676-3090A3979E5E.jpeg
     
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  9. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    Oh! He happens to be a traveling electrical technician?! “Prowling Highways and bus stops from Kentucky to Miami, picking up young, transient men”... I see he’s been ‘recaptured’ in Kentucky after several incidents. One arrest for indecent exposure in KY in 1981. This already reeks to high h3ll if you ask me.
     
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  10. GJKJR

    GJKJR Well-Known Member

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    This is really annoying me. There's a lot of newer cases where I'm struggling to find *any* information, whether through Google News or Newspapers.com. If anyone knows more information about these Does (or is just generally better at finding records than me, lol), please tell. It would be much appreciated.

    - UP12249 (February 28, 2014) - Beaver Dam, KY
    - UP57667 (November 18, 2018) - Rosine, KY
    - UP98 (November 10, 2002) - near Stanton, KY
    - UP59143 (February 20, 2018) - Winchester, KY
    - UP13107 (October 29, 2014) - Lexington, KY
    - UP16351 (June 1, 2016) - Lexington, KY
    - UP105 (October 20, 1981) - Letcher County, KY
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
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  11. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    UP12249 - I am as “unsure/uncertain“ as NamUs is
    UP57667 - She’s tall! 58'0"-64'0"(696-768 inches)
    UP98 - the MANdible? (not sure how sex is determined on a mandible) got nothin’

    UP59143 - unidentified bone (left humerus only) found lying on top of dirt at a cemetery. coroner says cemetery staff absolutely did not dig up a grave. report no graves at this site. unfortunately the site was not secured and was disturbed before coroner could return . no additional bones found on search per coroner. (I’ve got sooo many questions about this one. A bone, in an unsecured cemetery that has no graves, that ab-so-lute-ly was not dug up by staff, but was otherwise disturbed? :confused: Who, what, when, where, and why? Literally too mind boggling for me to even want to figure out! lol)

    UP13107 - I’m with you. I got nothin’
    UP16351 - Nothin’ here either

    UP105 - I was thinking he had a ViCAP alert, I either didn’t save it or I was mistaken. Now this one is bothering me too.... First off, the “recons” on NamUs are worse than a graphic postmortem! (IMO) You can tell they were probably taken at autopsy but just doctored to look not-so-graphic. I’d rather just see a raw photo... AND I hadn’t seen the top right corner where his vital stats are listed... they’re not entirely the same as what’s listed (he has blue eyes! and his age range is more specific)

    A15E9A38-2BD4-4A3E-B32E-EBBA5FE54C9F.jpeg

     
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  12. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    With “Letcher” 1982, UP105 - the photo also looks like he had some teeth missing... He was stabbed in the back and I don’t see any other mention of perimortem trauma... so maybe we’re looking for someone who was missing front teeth?

    Interestingly, Ryan Kemp (the MP who is specifically listed on Doe Network as not being Letcher) is pretty far outside the estimated vitals...age, race, and hair color fit, but based on the photos and estimated date of death, I’d say these are pretty close to “measured” rather than “estimated”.

    Ryan’s vs Letcher’s:
    - 5’9” to 5’10” (6’2”)
    - 135 – 140 lbs. (190 lbs.)
    - hazel eyes (blue)

    CRIMEWATCH®
     
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  13. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    I’m now convinced there is some room for error (intentional or otherwise) in Chris Zahn’s case! In short (yah right) Chris arrived in Florida from Switzerland in September 1991. He stayed there with friends until January 1992 when he set out on his tour of popular US cities. First stop - Georgia. He kept in touch with his mother and the friends from Florida via telephone and letters. By all accounts, the communication stopped sometime in April.

    Chris supposedly spoke with his travel agent over the phone on April 28, 1992. That’s the last known contact by anyone with “Chris”. I say “Chris” because I’m thinking there’s a chance that the travel agent did not speak with Chris, rather someone pretending to be Chris. (If the account was from someone close to or familiar with him, I’d be less suspicious, as he spoke with a slight German accent) but listen to this. It’s from the appeal filed by Harry Hale in regards to the fraud charges he received for using Chris’ stolen credit cards...

    “Jones [investigator] also obtained a motel receipt from a Carrollton [Georgia] motel, showing a room rental in May in Zahn's name. He determined that three phone calls were made from that room, including two local calls traced to Musick and Turner, two local teenagers. Talking to these young men, Jones discovered that they had met a man using the name "Christoph" while on a visit to Cumberland Mall in the spring of 1992. They said he had a "funny accent" and told them he was from Switzerland. They talked with him for about 15 minutes and gave him their phone numbers.

    Law enforcement authorities from Cobb and Carroll Counties and the GBI were contacted and the two young men were brought to Atlanta on October 13th in order to prepare a composite drawing of the man they met. Further investigation identified Hale and, on January 6, 1993, the two men were shown a photo spread from which each separately identified Hale as the man they met at the mall.”

    Kentucky also has a 1990 homicide cold case involving the shooting deaths of 3 individuals near Glasgow; two of their last names are Hale. It may or may not be related, but I think worth noting.

    So, depending on exactly when Hale met Chris (and likely murdered him) and started impersonating him (as is evident from the court document), I think it’s very possible that Chris could be UP94, who coincidentally was also shot to death.
     
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  14. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    Also, on March 16, 1990 (same month as unsolved Glasgow murders which took place around the 4th) is when Mitchell Manns went missing from the same county Hale lived in at the time of Chris’ disappearance. He’s the other guy named as a possible victim of Hale’s.
     
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  15. ClaireNC

    ClaireNC Well-Known Member

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    I had the same thought about the April phone call to the travel agent being Hale impersonating Chris. It's a definite possibility and we shouldn't rule out simply based on the date. The height is also off, but as you mentioned, that could be based on estimates for the UID. The location where UP94 was found is not all that far from Hale's home town. IMO It's worth submitting Chris Zahn for UP94.
    ETA: NamUs has UP94 listed as Hispanic/Latino The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

    The 1990 homicide case and everything else Hale related is all interesting and should be considered as we follow up on other KY cases. There is an article about the triple homicide in a local paper, but you need a subscription to view it. Hales, McClard found shot in ’90
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  16. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    I have looked and looked for info regarding Hale and these other alleged incidents...I couldn’t find a thing. I have a feeling it’s going to be worth it to find though!

    Chris’ height was all over the place too, 6’0” in some places, 6’3” in others. Something under 6’0” in one article, but it could have been the one that had his DLC as 1991 and not 1992.

    Another thing I wondered about was how UP94 being covered in plastic and saw horses might have affected decomposition. With it being spring time and humid...idk. Having some kind of info on his dentition would be nice. It’s hard to tell, but looks like something noticeable is going on with Chris’ front teeth. I went ahead and added him to possibles for UP94.

    I’ve been a busy, unproductive little night owl :D:p

    ETA: I did find some pretty good updates for Letcher ‘81 and John W. Coolaid! :cool::p
     
  17. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    OMG!! @ClaireNC and @GJKJR the maps?! :eek: FABULOUS!! And I just saw your PA spreadsheet! I like it so much better than mine!! :D So so awesome!
     
  18. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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  19. ClaireNC

    ClaireNC Well-Known Member

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    Here is another homicide cold case in Georgia that Hale is possibly connected to: KY - KY - Walter Cropper, 20, Prestonsburg, 20 Sept 1992 When they conducted a search warrant, they saw a Seiko walk-along recorder that Walter had had when he disappeared,
     
  20. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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