DaneBramage
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Or maybe for the first time in her life, she feels she's in total control of something.
Psych Profile- Elizabeth Johnson
- Thread starter debloree
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not_my_kids
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I do believe that she has some type of personality disorder, less serious than sociopathy.
I don't think she is a sociopath. There are some key indicators that I haven't seen any sign of.
Totally unprofessional opinion.
I don't think she is a sociopath. There are some key indicators that I haven't seen any sign of.
Totally unprofessional opinion.
DaneBramage
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The big "this does not belong" is EJ's seemingly blind trust of the Smiths. I think a thread on TPS' pathology could be opened as well, because my guess is that we may have a case of cross-exploitation going on here.
not_my_kids
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DB - I feel the same, she is finally in control. She has more in her cell than she ever had on the outside.
I also feel that she is very experienced at playing dumb and has a limited social intelligence, but likely does have a high IQ and should not be underestimated.
I have also posted before on how I fear for what she might have done to Gabe, not because she gets mad, but because she has controlled rage. It would seem from news reports that on two seperate occasions, EJ cut up clothing and other items due to anger. Yet, we have heard nothing of self injury on those occasions, leading me to believe that she was in firm physical control, even though she was psychologically not in full control of her behavior. She still had a choice, but she chose to lose control and lash out.
I also feel that she is very experienced at playing dumb and has a limited social intelligence, but likely does have a high IQ and should not be underestimated.
I have also posted before on how I fear for what she might have done to Gabe, not because she gets mad, but because she has controlled rage. It would seem from news reports that on two seperate occasions, EJ cut up clothing and other items due to anger. Yet, we have heard nothing of self injury on those occasions, leading me to believe that she was in firm physical control, even though she was psychologically not in full control of her behavior. She still had a choice, but she chose to lose control and lash out.
BeanE
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I agree that there's a big chance of cross-exploitation.
I disagree that Eliz trusts or trusted the Smiths. I think Eliz is very shrewd. I think she would lead someone to believe she trusted them, so that she could more easily manipulate and exploit as she saw fit, but no underlying trust actually being there.
I wholeheartedly support a thread for Tammi. I remain gravely concerned that Gabe is missing some tips, some chances to be found, because every attempt to look at Elizabeth, and to look at angles that don't include Tammi's involvement, are ignored or quickly subverted into becoming all about Tammi.
BeanE
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Forensic Psychiatrist: 'Baby Gabriel Likely Dead'
Dr. Steven Pitt: 'I Would Be Shocked If Gabriel Is Found Alive'
KPHO.com
POSTED: 10:12 pm MST January 28, 2010
UPDATED: 10:57 pm MST January 28, 2010
"You're talking about worst case scenario, child is dead. Best case scenario, 'No, I didn't kill my child I gave it away.' Either one of those would indicate a seriously twisted individual," said Dr. Pitt.
http://www.kpho.com/news/22372763/detail.html
I'm disappointed this psychiatrist didn't address one more possibility, still twisted, but that would leave Gabe in a potentially safer situation than giving him away to a stranger.
That scenario is one in which Eliz is playing a twisted game to hurt Logan, by having a friend or relative or herself or someone else hide Gabe for a while just to make Logan think Gabe was gone forever.
If Eliz is twisted enough to do the two things the psychiatrist mentions, and to send those horrible texts to Logan taking using a child as a pawn to a whole new level as the psychiatrist also mentions, is Eliz not twisted enough to do the third scenario I pointed out?
Dr. Steven Pitt: 'I Would Be Shocked If Gabriel Is Found Alive'
KPHO.com
POSTED: 10:12 pm MST January 28, 2010
UPDATED: 10:57 pm MST January 28, 2010
"You're talking about worst case scenario, child is dead. Best case scenario, 'No, I didn't kill my child I gave it away.' Either one of those would indicate a seriously twisted individual," said Dr. Pitt.
http://www.kpho.com/news/22372763/detail.html
I'm disappointed this psychiatrist didn't address one more possibility, still twisted, but that would leave Gabe in a potentially safer situation than giving him away to a stranger.
That scenario is one in which Eliz is playing a twisted game to hurt Logan, by having a friend or relative or herself or someone else hide Gabe for a while just to make Logan think Gabe was gone forever.
If Eliz is twisted enough to do the two things the psychiatrist mentions, and to send those horrible texts to Logan taking using a child as a pawn to a whole new level as the psychiatrist also mentions, is Eliz not twisted enough to do the third scenario I pointed out?
DaneBramage
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"Statistically, women only make up 15 percent of people who commit violent crimes in this country, but when you only look at parents who murder their children, women account for 50 percent."
That's an astounding stat. I'm trying to be more optimistic than Dr. Pitt, but his input is compelling.
That's an astounding stat. I'm trying to be more optimistic than Dr. Pitt, but his input is compelling.
BeanE
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I wasn't sure where to post this, but since Pat Brown is a profiler, this thread seemed to be a good place.
Pat will be on Geraldo tonight at 10est talking about Gabriel's case.
Fox News Channel
Pat will be on Geraldo tonight at 10est talking about Gabriel's case.
Fox News Channel
DaneBramage
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[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder"]Wikipedia link[/ame]
Some excerpts:
"The disorder typically involves unusual levels of instability in mood; "black and white" thinking, or splitting; chaotic and unstable interpersonal relationships, self-image, identity, and behavior; as well as a disturbance in the individual's sense of self. In extreme cases, this disturbance in the sense of self can lead to periods of dissociation."
"Individuals with BPD can be very sensitive to the way others treat them, reacting strongly to perceived criticism or hurtfulness. Their feelings about others often shift from positive to negative, generally after a disappointment or perceived threat of losing someone. Self-image can also change rapidly from extremely positive to extremely negative. Impulsive behaviors are common, including alcohol or drug abuse, unsafe sex, gambling and recklessness in general.
Attachment studies suggest individuals with BPD, while being high in intimacy- or novelty-seeking, can be hyper-alert to signs of rejection or not being valued and tend toward insecure, avoidant or ambivalent, or fearfully preoccupied patterns in relationships. They tend to view the world generally as dangerous and malevolent, and themselves as powerless, vulnerable, unacceptable and unsure in self-identity.
Individuals with BPD are often described, including by some mental health professionals (and in the DSM-IV), as deliberately manipulative or difficult, but analysis and findings generally trace behaviors to inner pain and turmoil, powerlessness and defensive reactions, or limited coping and communication skills."
DSM-IV-TR diagnostic criteria:
BPD is indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. (Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5)
2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). (Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5)
5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.
6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
7. Chronic feelings of emptiness
8. Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms
Some excerpts:
"The disorder typically involves unusual levels of instability in mood; "black and white" thinking, or splitting; chaotic and unstable interpersonal relationships, self-image, identity, and behavior; as well as a disturbance in the individual's sense of self. In extreme cases, this disturbance in the sense of self can lead to periods of dissociation."
"Individuals with BPD can be very sensitive to the way others treat them, reacting strongly to perceived criticism or hurtfulness. Their feelings about others often shift from positive to negative, generally after a disappointment or perceived threat of losing someone. Self-image can also change rapidly from extremely positive to extremely negative. Impulsive behaviors are common, including alcohol or drug abuse, unsafe sex, gambling and recklessness in general.
Attachment studies suggest individuals with BPD, while being high in intimacy- or novelty-seeking, can be hyper-alert to signs of rejection or not being valued and tend toward insecure, avoidant or ambivalent, or fearfully preoccupied patterns in relationships. They tend to view the world generally as dangerous and malevolent, and themselves as powerless, vulnerable, unacceptable and unsure in self-identity.
Individuals with BPD are often described, including by some mental health professionals (and in the DSM-IV), as deliberately manipulative or difficult, but analysis and findings generally trace behaviors to inner pain and turmoil, powerlessness and defensive reactions, or limited coping and communication skills."
DSM-IV-TR diagnostic criteria:
BPD is indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. (Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5)
2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). (Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5)
5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.
6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
7. Chronic feelings of emptiness
8. Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms
debloree
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Did we get a video of that BeanE? re: Pat Smith
BeanE
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I don't recall seeing one and I haven't searched. I haven't searched for a show transcript either.
BeanE
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Somebody grab JBean and hold her down ;-)
BeanE
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I searched this morning, debloree, and couldn't find a video or a transcript.
DaneBramage
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Are y'all talking about Pat Brown?
BeanE
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Yes but we are speaking in code. Ssshhhhhhhhh