Questions you'd like answers to...

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1) Never heard of that.
2) Yes, on floor plans and in book references - also referred to as the den.
3) Rev. Rol Hoverstock, Fleet and Patricia White, John and Barb Fernie, plus the Victim's Advocates.
4) I don't know.
5) The only nick I know is what PR called JB - "Johnny B".

I'm intrigued. Where are you headed?

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Hi Kanzz ... respectfully isn't Fleet's wife name Priscilla?

Also didn't JR have a room on the 3rd floor near PR'S dressing room he called his study also, or was it office?
 
Hi Kanzz ... respectfully isn't Fleet's wife name Priscilla?

Also didn't JR have a room on the 3rd floor near PR'S dressing room he called his study also, or was it office?
Yes. And I can't believe I typed "Patricia" :facepalm:
Thanks for being nice and not shaming me publicly.

I'd forgotten that there was also a study on the third floor. Good call, CoreyRocks


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Hi Userid,

Steve Thomas wondered about the crawl space too but ruled it out after inspecting it and realizing the loose debris inside would have clung to JBR's clothing and hair.

The closet with the inset lock on the door has always interested me - even more so after Kolar's book came out. Why does the title ask who really kidnapped JonBenet and not who really killed her? Is he giving us a clue about Burke tormenting JBR by trapping her in closets and such? Kidnapping doesn't necessarily mean sequestering a person and holding him/her for ransom but refers to any action where a person is prevented from moving freely or made to go somewhere against his/her will. Is Kolar asking who put or trapped JBR in the basement that night? Why does he want us to pay attention to that question first?

I have speculated that JR might have hidden the body in the locked closet and realized he had to relocate it before search dogs were brought in. The closet might not have struck police as suspicious, much as the locked wine cellar didn't, because they were initially focused on possible exits for an intruder. But if JR did hide the body there, he had to relocate it because, while an intruder might have hidden the body there, only a family member could have locked that door. Did he grow agitated in part because he was wondering how he would explain why dogs found cadaver scent in both places?

Fellow poster DeeDee has been adamant that the livor mortis evidence shows that JBR's body wasn't moved after death. However, I think the body could have lay on its back in the closet and been moved to the wine cellar quickly without disturbing livor mortis, especially if it were set enough to resist blanching -- which it would have been by 11:00 AM. Maximum lividity occurs 6 - 12 hours after death.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, if anywhere - just sharing some thoughts I've had.
 
Yes. And I can't believe I typed "Patricia" :facepalm:
Thanks for being nice and not shaming me publicly.

I'd forgotten that there was also a study on the third floor. Good call, CoreyRocks


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Well easy to do .... isn't Patsy's given name "Patricia" I believe on her tombstone?
 
Here's some questions I'm looking for answers on. These are important to a deep look I'm taking into what I think is the probably the most important piece of evidence in this case.

1) Is there any record of the R's referring to either of the kids bedrooms as a "Suite" or "En Suite"? Or anywhere else in the house they refer to as that?
2) Is there any record of the R's referring to any part of the house as a "Study"?
3) What are the names of all the visitors they had come over on murder morning?
4) Do you know of any nicknames they used to refer to those visitors?
5) What are any nicknames the R's used within their own family for each other?

Thanks.
Hi Disgusted .... oh I so want justice for JonBenet this YEAR. Anyway I was thinking about this. I don't know if the R's called their bedroom a suite but I would call it a Master Suite. Large bedroom, fireplace sitting area, dressing room and his and hers separate bathrooms on the far side, JR'S smaller study/office (larger one on the 1st floor) so basically entire 3rd floor was the parents AND, very weird to me, no doors whatsoever from either stairway ... totally open. So no doors to shut for privacy. Hth.
 
While I do believe a majority of what happened that night happened on the second floor, if it happened in stages and she was being chased by someone, it infuriates me to imagine she might have had no choice but to run down to the area of the house that scared her the most in an attempt to reach safety...that basement. :maddening:

I agree especially if there was lint and dirt on her feet. :(

JonBenet rejects the My Twinn doll made to look like her- a possible rejection of "You and I will wear the same outfit and your dolly can look like us too."

JonBenet rejects the red turtleneck so as not to be her mother's clone.

JonBenet gets a new bike. "Oh, look, JonBenet. I have a new bike too. We can dress alike and ride our bikes together."

I've always thought the dolls were creepy. I don't blame her one bit for being less than enthused. I would have said the same thing, "I really don't think that doll looks like me." And I MOST DEF don't blame her for wanting her own individuality, not to match her controlling mother. My own mom is sweet and well meaning but she is controlling and it drives me NUTS. Even today I go out of my way to do the opposite of what she does. For example if she crochets, I do cross stitch. Little things like that. She thought it would be cute to match for Christmas Eve and I said No thank you.

Anyway when a friend admired the pageant trophies JB said they were more for her mother or something like that. She was a smart cookie and knew what Patsy was up to, IMO.

About Thorazine, there's nothing in the interviews that I remember. And Singularity, my nephew had a transplant and was on Dilaudid for pain. Man that stuff is potent. He was a different person when he was coming off it. They had to have him on hydromorphone to try and wean him off slowly.

3. Fleet and Priscilla White arrived first. John Fernie came separately from his wife and arrived first. Then Barb Fernie came..(snip)

Didn't the good, ethical (/s) Dr. Beuf and Bynum come too? Or was Bynum later on in the evening? Not sure about nicknames. Maybe Beuf was Candyman.
 
I agree especially if there was lint and dirt on her feet. :(



I've always thought the dolls were creepy. I don't blame her one bit for being less than enthused. I would have said the same thing, "I really don't think that doll looks like me." And I MOST DEF don't blame her for wanting her own individuality, not to match her controlling mother. My own mom is sweet and well meaning but she is controlling and it drives me NUTS. Even today I go out of my way to do the opposite of what she does. For example if she crochets, I do cross stitch. Little things like that. She thought it would be cute to match for Christmas Eve and I said No thank you.

Anyway when a friend admired the pageant trophies JB said they were more for her mother or something like that. She was a smart cookie and knew what Patsy was up to, IMO.

About Thorazine, there's nothing in the interviews that I remember. And Singularity, my nephew had a transplant and was on Dilaudid for pain. Man that stuff is potent. He was a different person when he was coming off it. They had to have him on hydromorphone to try and wean him off slowly.



Didn't the good, ethical Dr. Beuf and Bynum come too? Or was Bynum later on in the evening? Not sure about nicknames. Maybe Beuf was Candyman.
Beuf and Bynum showed up later that evening after the Ramseys relocated to the Fernies. Considering how loose Dr. Beef was with the pills they probably called him Dr. Feelgood!



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I read an excerpt from JR's journal from PW's book and JR called Dr. Beuf "Chuck".
 
Not too sure where to post this, but has there ever been a VI on WS re JBR?
 
I read an excerpt from JR's journal from PW's book and JR called Dr. Beuf "Chuck".

That the R family was on a first-name-basis with Dr. Beuf speaks on their personal relationship with him. This could've been a motivating factor in Dr. Beuf disregarding JBR's vaginal issues as normal.
 
That the R family was on a first-name-basis with Dr. Beuf speaks on their personal relationship with him. This could've been a motivating factor in Dr. Beuf disregarding JBR's vaginal issues as normal.
Agree. Which is unethical. I've said this before, but I don't trust Beuf. I don't for one minute believe that he actually performed any vag exams on JB. He contradicts himself when asked about it. I also do not believe he did his due diligence based on her symptoms and that he was only trying to cover his own backside when he said he had performed those exams. He was a friend of the family and he put that first.
To put this into perspective, it's important to note that it's our society that has developed a terrible custom of calling the external female genitalia the vagina - which it is not. It is the vulva. However, a physician absolutely knows the difference.

SAWYER: But what about those reports that JonBenet's pediatrician, Dr Beuf, saw JonBenet 30 times in three years?
BEUF: Before your call, I sat down with her chart and counted. It was 27 times.
SAWYER: This is the first time Dr Beuf has gone over his records publicly.
And is that unusual to see a child that many times?
BEUF: Not with the kinds of problems which this child had. The majority of them were for sinus infections and for colds.
SAWYER: And by majority you mean?
BEUF: Probably 20 of the lot. I counted three in which she'd complained of some pain in urination. And the rest of them were cold, strep throats, sinus infections.
SAWYER: So many he said, there was some concern about asthma.
How many times did you give her a vaginal examination?
BEUF: Well, it was five or six times in that three year period.
SAWYER: We asked him to specifically review all notes that might pertain. He agreed, citing the frenzy of uninformed speculation. Be warned, these are a doctor's clinical notes about a young patient.
September 1993 a call about vaginal redness, possibly associated with recent diarrhea.
April 1994 a visit about a problem perhaps related to the use of bubble bath, which can be an irritant.
October 1994 a routine physical. No problems noted, though some indication of occasional bedwetting. Dr Beuf says 20 percent to 25 percent of children that age wet the bed.
March 1995 abdominal pain and fever. Tests and exam showed no problem.
August 1996 another routine physical with a vaginal exam. The doctor said everything checked out as normal. We asked what he made of this number of complaints?
Would that be unusual?
BEUF: For a child that age, certainly not. They don't wipe themselves very well after they urinate. And it's something which usually is curable by having them take plain water baths or learning to wipe better. But if you have 4yo kids, you know how hard that is. The amount of vaginitis which I saw on the child was totally consistent with little girls her age.
SAWYER: If there had been an abrasion involving the hymen, you would have seen it?
BEUF: Probably. I can't say absolutely for sure because you don't do a speculum exam on a child that young at least unless it's under anesthesia.
SAWYER: Did you see in any of these examinations any sign of possible sexual abuse?
BEUF: No, and I certainly would have reported it to the social service people if I had. That's something that all of us in pediatrics are very acutely aware of.
(BBM)


So, here's why it doesn't make sense:
First he says he says he performed a vag exam 5 or 6 times in a 3 year period. This would be an incredible number of times for anyone who is not expecting a baby or with some other OB/GYN issue, let alone a child.
Then, Sawyer asks him, "If there had been an abrasion involving the hymen, you would have seen it?" and he replies, "Probably."
But then he states, "I can't say absolutely for sure because you don't do a speculum exam on a child that young at least unless it's under anesthesia."
Well, which is it, doctor? You can't have it both ways.
My guess is that he never actually performed a vag exam. I think that is an outright lie. Although, it can be done on a child without anesthesia using an otoscope (ear scope), and he should definitely know that.
At best, he might have done a visual exam of her vulva. But, unless he used some kind of an instrument, he never performed a vag exam.
The bottom line for me is this - this record is filled with red flags and he did not do his due diligence. He either turned a blind eye to the problems right before his face or he was negligent. Of course, there is another explanation - some kind of influence kept the dirty truth out of those medical records and his failure to report will forever keep that secret.
http://jfjbr.tripod.com/truth/bynum.html
 
I don't trust him either. I can tell a lot about people from looks and he looks shady. JMO.

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I agree with everything in this post. The basement has secrets. I almost feel like JBR was being punished for something, and she was perhaps kept down in one of those closets that night or something -- almost like an extreme version of "go sit in the corner" -- "go sit in this locked closet in the basement for a while."

It most certainly does. Here's a pic of that damage to the door

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Also, IDI keeps saying there are no broken train track but these are the pieces of track on the floor correct?

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In Mr. Kolar's book the description is of tracks on the table and floor of the train room and also there is track in BR's bedroom.
 
Thank you! I wish I took better notes for each book. They start to blur together for me.
 
That the R family was on a first-name-basis with Dr. Beuf speaks on their personal relationship with him. This could've been a motivating factor in Dr. Beuf disregarding JBR's vaginal issues as normal.

Basically, JR's journal entry said Chuck (Beuf) told Mike (Bynum) that in his professional opinion the R's were in no condition to go to the police station & be interviewed and then Bynum informed BPD.
 
Not too sure where to post this, but has there ever been a VI on WS re JBR?

Back in the day, we didn't have "VIs", but we always suspected that some insiders posted here. Judith Phillips supposedly posted at one time.

I wonder now, if Blue Crab would be a VI? He seemed to know a lot of insider info, verified more and more today.
 
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