RDI and IDI

[narlacat]

I regress.
A 6 yr old would be capable enough to ring 911 that is true but not all 6 yr olds.
JonBenét was no doubt a bright kid so I guess there's no reason to think she didnt have the brain power to do it and that she might have been taught in school about 911.
So as far as I can tell, the most common reason people believe JonBenét made that call is because someone was 'fiddling' with her at the party and that that person could be responsible for her death ie silencing her.
If it were say John doing the fiddling, why would he choose to do that at that time?
Wouldnt he be entertaining etc?
Was Grandpa Paugh at the party?
God my memorys shocking and my will to go look it up diminishing so I'll just ask here!
Also, does anyone know what interview it might be in where Patsy and John are asked about the call?
I'm asumming it's in one of the interviews

 

[Camper]

After so long, my memory is getting out of sinc. I donut remember everything that I read and heard about the murder, nor do I remember sources for everything that I read and heard.

BUT those things that I took to be the truth, I do remember with clarity.

Now after so many years, I am thinking about the party on the 23rd. Santa was there, wouldn't you think that IF Santa were in the main area of the party festivities, that the little children would all be hanging like flies to him all the time?

WHEN, where or why would the small kiddies have scattered off to during the party time?

How could JonBenet have ended up on the stairs by the kitchen crying. Which stairs, the circular stair, the basement stair landing er where - anyone have a source for that?

Did PR find the children had left the Santa area, and found them upstairs diddling, and took them into the room where the dictionary was found open to the word incest, and a tongue lashing verbal session with those that she had found diddling? Would it have been then that JonBenet came downstairs and sat down on the bottom step of the circular stair and was crying? I would think she would not have been crying IF she in fact had done the 'right' thing and dialed 911 by herself. This couldn't have been or JonBenet would not have been sharing the secret of the upcoming secret visit from Santa, IF the diddler had told her previously AND THEN they were scolded when found diddling on the 23rd.

WHO would have caused her to cry? WAS JAR at that party, I could see PR dialing 911 IF IF she were at odds with JAR for diddling. Is this when JonBenet was told about her upcoming secret visit AFTER Christmas, and BEFORE PR might have found them together???



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[amordei]

Every now and then I get the bug for the most compelling story I have read (perhaps because I still don't know the ending).

In any event, I don't think the call on 12/23 gets us very far-too many contingencies. However, the fact that Susan Stine shooed the coppers away makes me curious. I thought that the Ramseys hadn't had a close relationship with them yet.

There are just so many layers to this story. But the ransom note is fact and reading that over and over again doesn't make me think PR after an accident. It makes me think of a sophmoric college boy. Hmm...

 

[clueless]

Come to think of it, me and some of my cousins used to love prank calling 911 just to talk to the operator. (I think I was maybe around 8 - 10 or so when we realized it existed, or at least it became well known.) We would call anytime we got together and would ask the operator silly questions until one time when the operator called us back and told the adults in the house. Boy did we get in trouble for that!

That being said, I don't think I would have called 911 in an emergency if so many adults were around rather than just telling one of them. (My older cousins were the ones who initiated the calling at those family get togethers.) And you better believe that if my mom ignored me telling her something was wrong, that I would not have called behind her back even if I knew it was wrong. At 6-years-old I thought my mom knew everything and if she didn't respond I would have probably thought it was my fault or that it was OK, no matter what we were taught in school.

Clue

 

[Camper]

Discussing this has made me have more thoughts.

Could PR have found JAR and JonBenet doing something inapproriate and lost it big time, scolding grabbing the phone to call the police, sending JonBenet downstairs with her moms words ringing in her ears etc. Confronting JAR, and being so angry and explaining incest to him, and on and on. Could she have summoned John and could that have been the reason that the two of them were not available for the police responding to the hung up 911 call.

Words attributed to JonBenet, that I do not have the source for (need help), words while crying that she supposedly said about her not feeling or being pretty - wild remembrance on my part.

This could have caused even further anger by the college son. Not only having to deal with the NEW people in his life that had further divided his family into new and assorted pieces, now in major trouble and conflict with his own father?



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[Eagle1]

UK Guy who asked me, words to the effect did I have a source that JonBenet made the aborted 911 call, I'm just theorizing like everyone else, I know you know, but I do think the adults were absorbed in their partying and she couldn't get help from them, and had PROBABLY been taught at school to do something to get help if anyone touched any part of her that would be covered by a bathing suit.

Why Susan S turned away police at the door is a good question, very suspicious.

About the killer knowing or not knowing the layout of the house, I really don't think he'd have to. If I were that type of person, I certainly think I could find the basement room, and if I were the walker that Barnhill saw, I no doubt would have been "casing the joint" while waiting for the R's to return. I don't think that'd be a problem at all, just my opinion.

Quite a few people seem suspicious to me, and I'm still wondering what time FW and CG returned from carolling with the group. Could that have been just a way to sneak out? Did they go carolling after the R's left or before? I don't think any of us know but asking anyway.

Someone asked were all the people from the party on the 23rd back at the hell hole that night. Probably not, since there were about 100 of them, correct? My memory is getting like everyone else's, needing help. But some of them could have been there, I would think. Maybe the ones that were there so early the next morning, supposedly called. People questionned PR still being in last night's clothing. Maybe all those that she said she'd called were in their same clothing too? But we'll never know I suppose.
Can't imagine what they might have been there all night for, but neither would I make an emphatic statement that family had to have done it. I'm keeping an open mind. In America, we have a law that people are considered innocent until proven in court to be guilty. And people have been wrongly convicted and executed. We don't claim to be perfect.

It's just my gut feeling that JonBenet tried to make the 911 call and someone grabbed the phone from her. Internet posters have remarked that it turned out FW's mother was partying that night, not ill at all. I believe it was McSanta's wife, who'd written the play, who said she found JonBenet crying on the stairs and that she said, "I don't feel pretty." Could have been a scolding, sure, or, I think pedophiles call their prey "so pretty", correct?

 

[aussiesheila]

Someone, AussieSheila I think, suggested the walker could have been CGaston, so I'm asking, Wasn't he present and accounted for at the Whites' the whole evening, or did he and FW not actually return from carolling?
Anyone know?

Yes, I did Eagle. The walker was noticed at what? time. 5 pm? So where was CG at 5 pm on the 25th? Did BPD ever ask?

I think I read in PMPT that CG slept on the sofa in the livingroom at the White residence the night of the 25th/26th.

The carolling bit, I think was during the party, which it seems lasted from about 5 pm to 10 pm as far as I can tell. From memory in PMPT I think it said that FW was in bed by 10 pm and PW stayed up until 2 am talking to her ?sister.

I have a question for anyone - Were either of FW's parents staying with them that Christmas? They weren't mentioned in PMPT as far as I can remember.

 

[aussiesheila]

People questionned PR still being in last night's clothing. Maybe all those that she said she'd called were in their same clothing too? But we'll never know I suppose.

Eagle, you've made a lot of interesting comments in your last post but I've jumped on this particular one because I think it's the first time I've heard anyone bring this up, and strangely it's a thought that's been in the forefront of my mind these last few days.

I have always wondered how those people Patsy called just after she made the 911 call to BPD arrived so very quickly. From what I understand she called the Whites first and then the Fernies. John Fernie arrived first. That to me is understandable, he lived the closest and is a male and males can get ready very quickly. I know this is a very sexist thing to say but I do think males are faster than females at getting ready to go anywhere, generally speaking. His wife arrived some 15 minutes later than he did, which I what I would expect. But the White contingent arrived BEFORE Barbara Fernie and very soon after John Fernie. They lived a lot further away and there were FOUR! of them (F and PW, H and BC) and two of them were females. Now that's suspicious IMO.

I think the Ws knew ahead of time that Patsy was going to call them, and that they were dressed and ready to go, I think they knew that JonBenet had been murdered and that they were instrumental in organising the coverup, which included hiding the body and getting the ransom note written.

 

[Eagle1]

Hm....

I too have always thought the whole group that were called arrived suspiciously fast.

You even checked the distance for each one? Bravo.

 

[capps]

Quote by aussiesheila:
"I have always wondered how those people Patsy called just after she made the 911 call to BPD arrived so very quickly. From what I understand she called the Whites first and then the Fernies. John Fernie arrived first. That to me is understandable, he lived the closest and is a male and males can get ready very quickly. I know this is a very sexist thing to say but I do think males are faster than females at getting ready to go anywhere,..."

aussiesheila,

How fast do you think it would take you,if a good friend of yours called hysterical claiming their daughter was kidnapped?

I am a female ... and I don't know about you,but if I got a call like that,forget the brushing of teeth or bothering wth make up .... I would probably be in the same clothes I had on the day before,and would be there in no time flat ... I guaranty that.

 

[Camper]

I had a post going this morning and it was lost, getting po'd about losing posts.


-------
Known facts about the 911 call on the 23rd.

1. This was the same evening/time frame that JonBenet was found crying sitting on the stairs, and saying she did not feel pretty.

2. John and Patsy did not answer their own doorbell, for the police.

3. Mrs. Stine answered the door, and only spoke through a talking hole/speaker without opening the door. Someone correct me if I err on that, or post a source for that.

4. IF Mrs. Stine was not a close friend, why would she not just OPEN the door to the police as what I would suppose any normal person would do when they saw a policeman. IF they had a talking hole/speaker, no doubt they had a peep hole to see WHO was at the door. PLUS when the policeman announced why he was there, why did she not OPEN the door then?

HOW did Mrs. Stine know NOT to open the door, perhaps it could have been a late guest. IF she was not a close friend how did she know it wasn't a late guest?

Why would not feeling pretty be enough to cry about at a CHRISTMAS PARTY?

I wonder what type of activities were planned for the children at the party on the 23rd?



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[narlacat]

QUOTE<<That being said, I don't think I would have called 911 in an emergency if so many adults were around rather than just telling one of them>>

Why wouldn't JonBenét have just gone to one of the many adults that were around?
Unless you prescribe to Aussiesheila's theory and believe that most everyone at the party was a pedophile, surely there was someone there she felt she trusted.

 

[sandraladeda]

3. Mrs. Stine answered the door, and only spoke through a talking hole/speaker without opening the door. Someone correct me if I err on that, or post a source for that.

4. IF Mrs. Stine was not a close friend, why would she not just OPEN the door to the police as what I would suppose any normal person would do when they saw a policeman. IF they had a talking hole/speaker, no doubt they had a peep hole to see WHO was at the door. PLUS when the policeman announced why he was there, why did she not OPEN the door then?

HOW did Mrs. Stine know NOT to open the door, perhaps it could have been a late guest. IF she was not a close friend how did she know it wasn't a late guest?

Your comments in bold make me say hmmmmmm...you are right, it sounds like they were in defensive mode, anticipating a cop arrival in response to the 911 call. Why? If an innocent mistake, why not throw open the door, blush, apologize profusely, promise to teach those children to never do that again, say sorry sorry sorry....offer the cops a plate of Christmas cookies for the road...

I am stunned at a police department that would leave it at that -how did they know there was not someone in distress inside?

imo

 

[clueless]

QUOTE<<That being said, I don't think I would have called 911 in an emergency if so many adults were around rather than just telling one of them>>

Why wouldn't JonBenét have just gone to one of the many adults that were around?
Unless you prescribe to Aussiesheila's theory and believe that most everyone at the party was a pedophile, surely there was someone there she felt she trusted.

That's what I said. - I wouldn't have called 911. I would have told an adult.

 

[Camper]

Well as my dear hubby used to say, was this a coinkidinky?

We have a little girl crying
She is upset cuz she thinks she is not pretty
Police at the door
No one opens the door
Mom and dad are not there for a crying baby
Neither mom er dad go to respond to the doorbell
IF this is a 'festive?' party why is a little girl crying cuz she donut think she is pretty?
WHO cares if they are pretty when it is PARTY time?

IF a child is taught to call 911 when something bad is happening, WHY try and find an adult, why not just SCREAM?

I think someone (mom or ?)came upon JonBenet being led astray with a diddler and mom made a rash move and dialed 911 then thought better of it and hung up.

Then a fast and furious lecture - JonBenet sent downstairs to the party, the lecture continued with the dictionary taken out right then or LATER after everyone had left the party.


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[tipper]

Well as my dear hubby used to say, was this a coinkidinky?

We have a little girl crying
She is upset cuz she thinks she is not pretty
Police at the door
No one opens the door
Mom and dad are not there for a crying baby
Neither mom er dad go to respond to the doorbell
IF this is a 'festive?' party why is a little girl crying cuz she donut think she is pretty?
WHO cares if they are pretty when it is PARTY time?

IF a child is taught to call 911 when something bad is happening, WHY try and find an adult, why not just SCREAM?

I think someone (mom or ?)came upon JonBenet being led astray with a diddler and mom made a rash move and dialed 911 then thought better of it and hung up.

Then a fast and furious lecture - JonBenet sent downstairs to the party, the lecture continued with the dictionary taken out right then or LATER after everyone had left the party.


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Actually I've always been suspicious of that crying story. Why would this woman (Janet McSanta?) just waltz on past a crying child. Wouldn't she sit down and talk with her about why she didn't feel pretty? Wouldn't she try and talk her out of her sadness. Yet we get this abreviated story. Did BPD not ask any further questions about it? Or did the full story not add to his trying to raise our suspicions about the Ramsey household.

 

[narlacat]

That's what I said. - I wouldn't have called 911. I would have told an adult.

Sorry, that looked like I was asking you a question when in fact I was trying to reinforce what you were saying

 

[Camper]

Actually I've always been suspicious of that crying story. Why would this woman (Janet McSanta?) just waltz on past a crying child. Wouldn't she sit down and talk with her about why she didn't feel pretty? Wouldn't she try and talk her out of her sadness. Yet we get this abreviated story. Did BPD not ask any further questions about it? Or did the full story not add to his trying to raise our suspicions about the Ramsey household.

---------->>>Tipper you know I had a thought when you expounded on Ms. S in this post. THIS would have been a perfect time for Ms. S to offer a 'secret visit' from santa, AFTER Christmas to dry up those tears and cheer her up.

NEVER thought of that before. IF IF that 'might' have happened - how would it have been presented to give JonBenet such a firm grasp on thinking it WAS going to happen. So certain that it was gonna be that she told her best little friend? er, huh?

IF IF Ms. S did say it to her, why would she not have told the police to clear up any extraneous thought that a 'perp' or 'the' perp had said it to JonBenet? OR did she? So much we don't know that LE knows.


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[aussiesheila]

Hm....

I too have always thought the whole group that were called arrived suspiciously fast.

You even checked the distance for each one? Bravo.

Actually, Eagle no I didn't check the distance, I'm not even certain who was closer, but I'm sure someone will pull me up if I'm wrong.

 

[UKGuy]

Reading over the replies, imo it looks more as if an adult dialled 911 in response to some internal event at the party.

Then this was vetoed by the Ramsey's, but when the police arrived the Ramsey's, being clever, note this response to a legal matter is not out of character, chose not to answer the door!

What does this do, it means they can deny any future knowledge or particular presentation.

So if the R's had nothing to hide, why not answer the door, explain the situation, apologise for a mistaken 911-call and tell the officer to 'Have a nice day'.

We assume the incident involves JonBenet when it may actually be another child, and its that child's parent who made the 911 call?

If this incident was of a sexual nature maybe the Ramsey's suggested lets keep this private and we can sort it out together.

So a list of all the male invitees would help to work out what may or may not have taken place.

There is also the possibility that the children were fighting, maybe the girls were passing remarks on the party-dresses etc. This would fit in with JonBenet talking the way she did.


Assuming it was not JonBenet who dialled 911, and not an adult, then could it have been another female invitee who dialled?

The important issue is: Is this 911 event related to JonBenet's homicide in some manner, or is was it simply some internal party fracas that the Ramsey's and friends would rather keep private, since they view it as socially embarrassing?