reference to "hacked phone records... JR phoned lawyer before police" AND...

[Tobiano8th]

i have seen reference to:

"hacked phone records"

"JR phoned lawyer BEFORE PR phoned police"

"JR phoned/spoke to colorado governor that morning"

is this true? a source?...

i have no idea...... would pretty much seal the RDI case for me.... thx in advance

 

[UKGuy]

i have seen reference to:

"hacked phone records"

"JR phoned lawyer BEFORE PR phoned police"

"JR phoned/spoke to colorado governor that morning"

is this true? a source?...

i have no idea...... would pretty much seal the RDI case for me.... thx in advance

Tobiano8th,
Here is an off the cuff summary of the above:

"hacked phone records"

Fact, depending on your perspective.

"JR phoned lawyer BEFORE PR phoned police"

Its speculation.

"JR phoned/spoke to colorado governor that morning"

Fact , its asserted in one of the books.

Here is Patsy on the cellphones:
1998 Boulder Police Department Patsy Ramsey Interview Excerpt

1 TOM HANEY: Let me back you up

2 again. We talked about that phone, possible

3 phone lines. Did you folks at that time have

4 any other phones, any cell phones, cellular--

5 PATSY RAMSEY: John had a cell

6 phone. And I had just gotten a cell phone at

7 Christmas, little teeny one.

8 TOM HANEY: Was it activated?

9 PATSY RAMSEY: I think it's

10 activated when you buy it.

11 TOM HANEY: It's not much of a

12 present if it doesn't work?

13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, I think it was

14 activated.

15 TOM HANEY: Probably. Do you

16 recall the phone number?

17 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

18 TOM HANEY: How about John's cell

19 phone, do you recall that number?

20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

21 TOM HANEY: Did he have just the

22 one, was that a personal one?

23 PATSY RAMSEY: He had had one and

24 he lost it. See, I had gotten him one years

25 ago, and he -- I think he lost and then --

0067

1 anyway, I had gotten this little teeny Panasonic

2 one at, what's that store -- that music video

3 store near the Boulder. Sound Tracks, one of

4 those, Sound Advice or -- and I had it -- I had

5 it sitting on the window ledge charging and he

6 walked in and found it, I said okay fine, I will

7 just take this one.

8 And I think meanwhile, Denise, his

9 secretary had ordered him a new phone.

10 TOM HANEY: Okay, was that an Access

11 Graphics phone?

12 PATSY RAMSEY: Access Graphics, yes. I

13 mean there were a couple of phones and they were

14 both relatively new and I don't know what the

15 number was.

16 TOM HANEY: And where were they

17 normally kept?

18 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember.

19 TOM HANEY: His--

20 PATSY RAMSEY: His was usually

21 charging somewhere, probably in his briefcase or

22 something.

23 TOM HANEY: Did he have a charger

24 set up somewhere though or--

25 PATSY RAMSEY: Um, I don't

0068

1 remember.

2 TOM HANEY: Okay. And between the

3 time that you folks had returned from the Whites

4 on Christmas night, and this call to the Boulder

5 police in the morning, on the 26th, had you made

6 or received any phone calls on any of those

7 lines?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I recall,

9 no.

So the cellphones could have been used to phone anyone anytime.

From memory the landline phone records showed no calls through December, that needs to be fact checked in case it refers to a cellphone?

 

[Tobiano8th]

UK Guy, thx for the response on this one too.

upon further reflection, does JR talking with colorado governor on that morning really mean much? colorado governor may know JR (may know him well) and be reassuring him "sincere condolences... everything will done... yada, yada, yada"

phoning a lawyer BEFORE the police would be very very bad... but as you say, it's speculation.

thx again.

 

[UKGuy]

UK Guy, thx for the response on this one too.

upon further reflection, does JR talking with colorado governor on that morning really mean much? colorado governor may know JR (may know him well) and be reassuring him "sincere condolences... everything will done... yada, yada, yada"

phoning a lawyer BEFORE the police would be very very bad... but as you say, it's speculation.

thx again.

Tobiano8th,
JR talking with the Governor probably does not mean much other than to suggest John was already focussed on promoting his version of events before the media got there?

Also consider that Fleet White had Private Investigators on his doorstep requesting an interview the afternoon JonBenet was found, how was all this organized?

If John and Patsy had the foresight to phone their friends over along with the Victim Advocates folks, then why not phone for legal advice from your attorney?

Although phoning out for legal advice prior to dialling 911 is purely speculative, given the events its likely John did phone and covered this up by suggesting he recieved legal advice from a friend during an evening walk the day JonBenet was found?

.

 

[Tobiano8th]

UK, thx again
JR phoning lawyer very early is fine... Lawyers know organization and PR and should be good for crisis advice... They then tho hid behind lawyers and purposely obfuscated things. Made them look very very bad. And presumably the alternative was very grim

It seems I misunderstood or people are way off-base on JR phoning lawyer before PR police call

 

[ElevatorPie]

The notion of JR placing a call to his lawyer prior to the 9-1-1 call is a bit more than just pure speculation.

On a Peter Boyles show back in the 90s, Peter mentioned that he'd seen proof of the fact that a call to Bynum was placed *prior* to the 9-1-1 call.

There is speculation that perhaps the records he saw were the records that James Rapp obtained illegally. In his book, Steve Thomas pointedly laments that the police were not allowed to use those records, since they had been obtained under false premises.

 

[UKGuy]

The notion of JR placing a call to his lawyer prior to the 9-1-1 call is a bit more than just pure speculation.

On a Peter Boyles show back in the 90s, Peter mentioned that he'd seen proof of the fact that a call to Bynum was placed *prior* to the 9-1-1 call.

There is speculation that perhaps the records he saw were the records that James Rapp obtained illegally. In his book, Steve Thomas pointedly laments that the police were not allowed to use those records, since they had been obtained under false premises.

ElevatorPie,

Steve Thomas pointedly laments that the police were not allowed to use those records, since they had been obtained under false premises.

Sure but there was nothing to prevent Steve Thomas placing a request to the telephone company for a call list for a specified period.

This would constitute a legal request and supersede the illegal one.

FYI: Telephone records are never deleted they are stored for ever, so they are still available.

Why should Peter Boyles make up such an observation?

He did some great radio broadcasts on the case.

.

 

[David Rogers]

ElevatorPie,

Sure but there was nothing to prevent Steve Thomas placing a request to the telephone company for a call list for a specified period.

This would constitute a legal request and supersede the illegal one.

FYI: Telephone records are never deleted they are stored for ever, so they are still available.

Why should Peter Boyles make up such an observation?

He did some great radio broadcasts on the case.

.

The request for phone records would probably have to be through a warrant.

 

[ElevatorPie]

Thomas would have needed a warrant, and Hunter wouldn't grant Thomas a warrant for the phone records.

Phone records were, however, on the list of items that could be subpoenaed by the grand jury. It's possible the GJ saw additional phone records during the trial.

ElevatorPie,

Sure but there was nothing to prevent Steve Thomas placing a request to the telephone company for a call list for a specified period.

This would constitute a legal request and supersede the illegal one.

FYI: Telephone records are never deleted they are stored for ever, so they are still available.

Why should Peter Boyles make up such an observation?

He did some great radio broadcasts on the case.

.

 

[UKGuy]

The request for phone records would probably have to be through a warrant.

David Rogers,
Sure, but the point being they were legally available for inspection, but they never bothered, you have to wonder why?

.

 

[David Rogers]

David Rogers,
Sure, but the point being they were legally available for inspection, but they never bothered, you have to wonder why?

.

It was all part up of the cover up to protect Burke. You don’t subpoena records that would incriminate the Ramseys that were protecting Burke. The DA could not even implicate a child. That is the only thing that keeps making sense in this case. Everyone was in on the coverup because they were by law required to be part of the cover up.

 

[UKGuy]

It was all part up of the cover up to protect Burke. You don’t subpoena records that would incriminate the Ramseys that were protecting Burke. The DA could not even implicate a child. That is the only thing that keeps making sense in this case. Everyone was in on the coverup because they were by law required to be part of the cover up.

David Rogers,
Yes this is one reading of the evidence. Burke Ramsey would be airbrushed out of the case even if he was not involved in JonBenet's death.

No PDI or JDI theory has yet explained why JonBenet was not realistically staged, i.e. no size-12's, no brothers long johns?

So a BDI cover up looks a better explanation for the parents failure to stage JonBenet in a manner any motivated adult would attempt.

.

 

[David Rogers]

The notion of JR placing a call to his lawyer prior to the 9-1-1 call is a bit more than just pure speculation.

On a Peter Boyles show back in the 90s, Peter mentioned that he'd seen proof of the fact that a call to Bynum was placed *prior* to the 9-1-1 call.

There is speculation that perhaps the records he saw were the records that James Rapp obtained illegally. In his book, Steve Thomas pointedly laments that the police were not allowed to use those records, since they had been obtained under false premises.

Just recently I saw a reference to John’s lawyer Michael Bynum and Pediatrician Dr. Beuf being called at 3 AM. That is about 3 hours before the 911 call. I wonder if this come from more than the Peter Boyales reference on his radio show.
s Mike Bynum's

 

[Marionumber1]

Just recently I saw a reference to John’s lawyer Michael Bynum and Pediatrician Dr. Beuf being called at 3 AM. That is about 3 hours before the 911 call. I wonder if this come from more than the Peter Boyales reference on his radio show.
s Mike Bynum's

Do you still have that reference on hand? I know I saw it a while back myself, but now I can't find it.

 

[UKGuy]

Just recently I saw a reference to John’s lawyer Michael Bynum and Pediatrician Dr. Beuf being called at 3 AM. That is about 3 hours before the 911 call. I wonder if this come from more than the Peter Boyales reference on his radio show.
s Mike Bynum's

David Rogers,

So John's Version of Events Goes Something Like The Following:

JOHN POLICE INTERVIEW 1998
14 MIKE KANE: Yeah.
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, on the 27th, they said,
16 (Well, we want you to come to the police station.̃
17 We said, (We're mentally not capable.̃ Our family
18 doctor was there. He said Patsy was in no
19 condition to leave this house. They said, (Well,
20 we've got to have you come to the police station.̃
21 I said why, he said, (Well we have records there
22 we want to pull out and look at.̃
23 And we said, (We can't. If you come here we'll
24 spend as much time as you want. But we physically
25 cannot be there.̃ And that's when Mike Bynum
0020
1 stepped in and said, wait a minute, time out. And
2 he was there delivering food; he's a friend of
3 mine and he happened to be an attorney and he
4 smelled a rat, frankly.
5 LOU SMIT: Now this was while you were at
6 Fernie's?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
8 LOU SMIT: Is that the first time that you
9 contacted the lawyer, that they contacted you?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: He was there. He was bringing
11 food over from Pasta Jay's, and just happened to
12 be there when the police were trying to haul us
13 down to the police station, and he said time out.
14 He took me inside and he said, (John, there's some
15 things going here. Would you allow me to do what I
16 think is necessary?̃ and I said, (Of course.̃
17 LOU SMIT: And what did he do, John?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember, but you'd
19 have to ask him, I guess. But I suspect what he
20 did is take the police aside and say, stop. You
21 cannot do what you're doing to these people. And
22 he arranged to bring Bryan in and Pat and were
23 just kind of on autopilot there.

This is how you magic up legal representation whilst invoking ramnesia ordering food and avoid a visit to the police station.

DECEMBER 28 John met with Haddon
THE KILLING OF JONBENET 2016

25:00 FIRST TIME SPEAKING OUT. A lawyer friend received an alarming phone call

Mike Bynum “lets just say this person was in the law enforcement arena and would have reason to know what they were speaking about and basically advised me that Patsy and John needed attorneys right away, that they were being targeted for JonBenet’s death

John: He said John would you allow me to do some things that I think are necessary to do here. I said yes absolutely, I had no idea what he intended to do and within a day he had brought in two attorneys to meet us. And I said what do we need attorneys for?

He is joking of course, what do we need attorneys for? JonBenet is dead and he thinks attorneys who needs them, duh!

JOHN DEPO MILES CASE OCT 1997:
Q. When did you hire Mr. Morgan's firm?
JOHN: I was introduced to Bryan by Mike Bynum shortly after the murder. I don't remember. The 27th, the 28th, something like that.
Q. And you hired him?
JOHN: I didn't do anything at that time other than -- I mean, I was crushed. Mike (bynum) introduced me to him.

So Bryan Morgan was John's attorney, Mike Bynum was just a fixer.

Second person to reach out to John

On that same Friday, John got a call from a close friend at Access Graphics, the company where he was CEO. The man voiced concerns similar to those Bynum was thinking and told John, “I need to convey a message to you. It’s from someone in the DA’s Office on the inside of the investigation. I can’t tell you who it is, but the person said I’m supposed to get this message to John Ramsey.” The message was a warning. “You need to get the best defense attorney you can. They think you killed your daughter, and they’re out to get you.”

So if this seems like it has been concocted after the event then you might be 100% correct. Why would John need to do that, well only if he has to explain how Fleet White had a knock at the door while John was effectively under house arrest?

A lot of stuff in the JonBenet case is posthoc, e.g. Mike Bynum's narrative, others are critical events in Perfect Murder Perfect Town allegedly co-authored with Globe reporter Jeff Shapiro and DA Alex Hunter. Former Boulder police Commander John Eller says Hunter encouraged Globe reporter Jeff Shapiro to dig up dirt on him.

So John as Consultant in Chief is nothing new. If someone said to me that John had paid for the case to go away, be buried etc, then scoping out PMPT, and appearing in JonBenet documentaries just seems to be a continuation of the case being buried?

So was Michael Bynum and Pediatrician Dr. Beuf called at 3 AM on the 26th December? Why not, John likely told Bynum to make the case vanish, and Beuf to massage the medical records, etc?

If you are seriously wealthy this is how things are done, you get fixers, e.g. third parties to do the dirty work, then claim it was all luck and God's Grace.


.

 

[David Rogers]

Do you still have that reference on hand? I know I saw it a while back myself, but now I can't find it.

Attorney-client Privilege?

 

[David Rogers]

Do you still have that reference on hand? I know I saw it a while back myself, but now I can't find it.

I’m looking for that radio show. I think it is out there somewhere.

 

[David Rogers]

David Rogers,

So John's Version of Events Goes Something Like The Following:

This is how you magic up legal representation whilst invoking ramnesia ordering food and avoid a visit to the police station.

DECEMBER 28 John met with Haddon
THE KILLING OF JONBENET 2016

He is joking of course, what do we need attorneys for? JonBenet is dead and he thinks attorneys who needs them, duh!


So Bryan Morgan was John's attorney, Mike Bynum was just a fixer.

Second person to reach out to John


So if this seems like it has been concocted after the event then you might be 100% correct. Why would John need to do that, well only if he has to explain how Fleet White had a knock at the door while John was effectively under house arrest?

A lot of stuff in the JonBenet case is posthoc, e.g. Mike Bynum's narrative, others are critical events in Perfect Murder Perfect Town allegedly co-authored with Globe reporter Jeff Shapiro and DA Alex Hunter. Former Boulder police Commander John Eller says Hunter encouraged Globe reporter Jeff Shapiro to dig up dirt on him.

So John as Consultant in Chief is nothing new. If someone said to me that John had paid for the case to go away, be buried etc, then scoping out PMPT, and appearing in JonBenet documentaries just seems to be a continuation of the case being buried?

So was Michael Bynum and Pediatrician Dr. Beuf called at 3 AM on the 26th December? Why not, John likely told Bynum to make the case vanish, and Beuf to massage the medical records, etc?

If you are seriously wealthy this is how things are done, you get fixers, e.g. third parties to do the dirty work, then claim it was all luck and God's Grace.


.

Didn’t Mike Bynum call Fleet White about 4 in the afternoon of December 26, 1996 while the Whites and the Ramsey's were at Fernie's house?

 

[UKGuy]

Didn’t Mike Bynum call Fleet White about 4 in the afternoon of December 26, 1996 while the Whites and the Ramsey's were at Fernie's house?

David Rogers,

Didn’t Mike Bynum call Fleet White

No.

The Haddon law company attempted to place calls directly with Fleet White on the afternoon of the day JonBenet's body was found by John.

Fleet White was not available.

The Haddon law company placed further calls to his house on the 27th of December attempting to secure an interview, in this they were successful.

Fleet White attended the Hadden attorney's office on the afternoon December 27th and was interviewed by Bryan Morgan, the Ramseys’ attorney, one of John Ramsey's private investigator's also attended and took notes.

So the question is if Mike Bynum says he first advised John Ramsey to seek legal representation on the evening of the evening of December the 27th, why was the Hadden law company phoning Fleet White on December the 26th?

Mike Bynum was legal counsel for Access Graphics and John's civil attorney, i.e. day to day legal fixer, he was also a former prosecutor in the office of Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter.

So hopefully it is evident that the schedule for hiring attorney's is posthoc or constructed after the event?

Also consider the other Fernie attendee, the Ramseys’ pediatrician, Dr. Francesco Beuf. What did he do, well he told Mike Bynum that Burke Ramsey could not interviewed, similarly for Patsy high on tranqulisers, around the same time period Bynum allegedly advises John Ramsey to retain legal representation.

So there is a clear alleged chain of command going through Mike Bynum.

Tangentially JonBenet afficionados might want to consider any links between the arrival of a Doll at Access Graphics and any legal oversight orchestrated by Mike Bynum as Access Graphics legal counsel, oh and friend of John Ramsey?

.

 

[David Rogers]

David Rogers,


No.

The Haddon law company attempted to place calls directly with Fleet White on the afternoon of the day JonBenet's body was found by John.

Fleet White was not available.

The Haddon law company placed further calls to his house on the 27th of December attempting to secure an interview, in this they were successful.

Fleet White attended the Hadden attorney's office on the afternoon December 27th and was interviewed by Bryan Morgan, the Ramseys’ attorney, one of John Ramsey's private investigator's also attended and took notes.

So the question is if Mike Bynum says he first advised John Ramsey to seek legal representation on the evening of the evening of December the 27th, why was the Hadden law company phoning Fleet White on December the 26th?

Mike Bynum was legal counsel for Access Graphics and John's civil attorney, i.e. day to day legal fixer, he was also a former prosecutor in the office of Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter.

So hopefully it is evident that the schedule for hiring attorney's is posthoc or constructed after the event?

Also consider the other Fernie attendee, the Ramseys’ pediatrician, Dr. Francesco Beuf. What did he do, well he told Mike Bynum that Burke Ramsey could not interviewed, similarly for Patsy high on tranqulisers, around the same time period Bynum allegedly advises John Ramsey to retain legal representation.

So there is a clear alleged chain of command going through Mike Bynum.

Tangentially JonBenet afficionados might want to consider any links between the arrival of a Doll at Access Graphics and any legal oversight orchestrated by Mike Bynum as Access Graphics legal counsel, oh and friend of John Ramsey?

.

There seems to be some discrepancy in the Phone call to Fleet White. Here is what I saw on Forums for Justice.

Mike Bynum called Fleet White about 4 in the afternoon of December 26, 1996 while the Whites and the Ramsey's were at Fernie's house. An hour later, White went to Bynum's office where he was told: "Haddon, Morgan, and Foreman have been hired to 'handle' this ...you are to STAY OUT OF IT."

This was 3 hours and 45 minutes after Fleet and John found the body. IMO it would be impossible for Bynum to provide enough information to retain Haddon
UNLESS he started the process before the body was "found".