Regroup/Refocus for 2013
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chinacat67
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Hello to annasmom and to one and all of you tireless searchers! First let me applaud all of you--your dedication, persistence, patience and out-of-the-box thinking make me think someday Anna will be located....I don't think that anymore, sadly, in most "old" cases here on WS, but I do with Anna. I hope, anyway...
Next, let me apologize in advance, I'm only half-way through the book and I haven't read absolutely everything in the forum, because I think that would be virtually impossible anymore (Aside: I'm toying with trying to figure out a way to organize things for easier search and reading but I'm currently really busy with work and family so don't think I'm up to it right now--but it is in my mind so maybe early next year---there is sooooo much information and soooooooo much could be valuable and there is soooo much time spent answering the same great questions---it just seems like there must be a way to organize all the info beyond the threads and stickies. It's great how it is, but I just feel like there is some needle in this haystack that may never be found, KWIM? Anyway....)
With those items said, there are a couple of initial thoughts I wanted to throw out there...I not only apologize if these are not new ideas, I also warn you that I come from a family of numbers people, although I am the token lawyer, so I'm really thinking statistically and legally when I read these things and sometimes it throws me way off track because most of these cases involve so much human irrationality, right?
A. I've seen many times that "Eifee" is a made up name/word and I think that, while it may be nonsense to us, that there was nothing without a meaning in G/G's world....so it has meaning, even if only in their demented world. If it has meaning, can it provide a clue?
When I first looked at it, and read the story of the name by annasmom, my first thought was greek letters--I belong to Alpha Phi and we pronounce the "Phi" as "fee". So what if Anna Christian Eifee is:
(GW stopped using Waters in his own referencing--I think that isn't part of the "game", just the legal requirement of a last name?)
In looking up Chi Phi, I see there is a fraternity by that name founded at Princeton---where GW went. Is there some connection? Is it possible GB went to Princeton as well (of course, not at the same time)? He seemed rather uneducated from a formal standpoint, like he was trying to make up for not having formal education with pompousness and "50 cent words", but Philly is not far from Princeton and there is some sense he came from PA, or lived there at one point, if I recall correctly. Was it the Philly area or elsewhere?
The other thought I had was that it referenced something with Greece that maybe rang a bell for annasmom from way back when while GW/you were living there? Maybe, bizarrely, it is a clue to WHERE Anna is or WHO Anna is now? Even though her disappearance was five years later, I think it would be wrong to discount GB having a plan from the start and an insight into the plan being their "inside joke" with her naming. She is the heir of GW and that was clearly not lost on GB, whose sole purpose in life seems to have been to be supported by others (I wonder how many before MK and GW??).
The final thing I thought it could relate to is their funky mysticism, numerology, Kabbalah stuff. I am actually into all of those to a degree so I don't mean those things themselves are funky but the G's definitely had their own funky version that probably in the end had very little to do with the actual genres. I would think the only way to figure the "joke" out then would be to know their world view through the BFH or the like. Even then it would probably make someone insane to try it.
So, just throwing that out and maybe it makes sense to someone?
B. I keep coming back to statistically probabilities...
The likeliest probability was the creek, but I truly think that was not the case for all the reasons everyone else thinks it was not the case.
Then I think---what are the probabilities of marrying a man with paranoid schizophrenia that is unmedicated? Probably, unfortunately, not that uncommon.
What are the probabilities, though, of that PLUS that man being completely under the spell of a greedy sugar daddy Rasputin/Svengali character who is clearly mentally unbalanced as well? That has to put us into lower numbers.
Then add, what are the probabilities that the only biological child of the man just happens to disappear without a trace? I think that has to be incredibly improbable.
To me, the probability of A+B+C happening is low (ie extremely uncommon) and them NOT to be interrelated has to be infinitesimally low.
In other words, looking for horses not zebras, the probability of this chain of events happening and G&G NOT being somehow a part of it has to be fairly close to nil.
Looking for another angle--toss in that stranger abductions are extremely rare but family abductions make up the very vast majority of abductions.
For me, the numbers don't tend to lie--even with irrationality and mental illness taken into account---it just seems improbable to the point of impossible that Anna's disappearance did not involve G&G.
If we are needing to simplify the search for Anna in a world of vast internet data, it seems, as such, that the key has to be within the world/data/information about G&G--from the time of Anna's birth (maybe a year or so prior?) until her disappearance. Who GB is only matters to the degree it imparts info about Anna--and I think the key is probably rather in GW's background. GW was her father, loved her and if he had to choose between her and GB, he clearly would choose GB, but would he make a deal to sell her for money (which GB would like) rather than kill her? If yes, GW would probably use further connections away from San Fran--more likely connections in NJ (Princeton), NY (Columbia) and Greece...and it sounds like he alienated most of those connections by the time of her disappearance, so that could be a pretty small circle of possible "helpers".
All of this makes me more interested in "Who was George Waters?"....I'm beginning to think that is the most important question to answer in finding Anna.
If this makes sense to anyone, maybe we start a thread on GW? I would love to impose upon annasmom's memory and graciousness to have her give us more detail and background on GW and his family/friends/colleagues/peers etc. Even just what you knew from his stories of his childhood/college or first hand during your time together or what you heard in the years after.
Just some initial thoughts and my final apology today is for the length of this post!
Finally, but most importantly, thank you to annasmom for showing such grace in the face of tragedy--it is truly inspirational and humbling.
Next, let me apologize in advance, I'm only half-way through the book and I haven't read absolutely everything in the forum, because I think that would be virtually impossible anymore (Aside: I'm toying with trying to figure out a way to organize things for easier search and reading but I'm currently really busy with work and family so don't think I'm up to it right now--but it is in my mind so maybe early next year---there is sooooo much information and soooooooo much could be valuable and there is soooo much time spent answering the same great questions---it just seems like there must be a way to organize all the info beyond the threads and stickies. It's great how it is, but I just feel like there is some needle in this haystack that may never be found, KWIM? Anyway....)
With those items said, there are a couple of initial thoughts I wanted to throw out there...I not only apologize if these are not new ideas, I also warn you that I come from a family of numbers people, although I am the token lawyer, so I'm really thinking statistically and legally when I read these things and sometimes it throws me way off track because most of these cases involve so much human irrationality, right?
A. I've seen many times that "Eifee" is a made up name/word and I think that, while it may be nonsense to us, that there was nothing without a meaning in G/G's world....so it has meaning, even if only in their demented world. If it has meaning, can it provide a clue?
When I first looked at it, and read the story of the name by annasmom, my first thought was greek letters--I belong to Alpha Phi and we pronounce the "Phi" as "fee". So what if Anna Christian Eifee is:
A Ch(i) Phi
(GW stopped using Waters in his own referencing--I think that isn't part of the "game", just the legal requirement of a last name?)
In looking up Chi Phi, I see there is a fraternity by that name founded at Princeton---where GW went. Is there some connection? Is it possible GB went to Princeton as well (of course, not at the same time)? He seemed rather uneducated from a formal standpoint, like he was trying to make up for not having formal education with pompousness and "50 cent words", but Philly is not far from Princeton and there is some sense he came from PA, or lived there at one point, if I recall correctly. Was it the Philly area or elsewhere?
The other thought I had was that it referenced something with Greece that maybe rang a bell for annasmom from way back when while GW/you were living there? Maybe, bizarrely, it is a clue to WHERE Anna is or WHO Anna is now? Even though her disappearance was five years later, I think it would be wrong to discount GB having a plan from the start and an insight into the plan being their "inside joke" with her naming. She is the heir of GW and that was clearly not lost on GB, whose sole purpose in life seems to have been to be supported by others (I wonder how many before MK and GW??).
The final thing I thought it could relate to is their funky mysticism, numerology, Kabbalah stuff. I am actually into all of those to a degree so I don't mean those things themselves are funky but the G's definitely had their own funky version that probably in the end had very little to do with the actual genres. I would think the only way to figure the "joke" out then would be to know their world view through the BFH or the like. Even then it would probably make someone insane to try it.
So, just throwing that out and maybe it makes sense to someone?
B. I keep coming back to statistically probabilities...
The likeliest probability was the creek, but I truly think that was not the case for all the reasons everyone else thinks it was not the case.
Then I think---what are the probabilities of marrying a man with paranoid schizophrenia that is unmedicated? Probably, unfortunately, not that uncommon.
What are the probabilities, though, of that PLUS that man being completely under the spell of a greedy sugar daddy Rasputin/Svengali character who is clearly mentally unbalanced as well? That has to put us into lower numbers.
Then add, what are the probabilities that the only biological child of the man just happens to disappear without a trace? I think that has to be incredibly improbable.
To me, the probability of A+B+C happening is low (ie extremely uncommon) and them NOT to be interrelated has to be infinitesimally low.
In other words, looking for horses not zebras, the probability of this chain of events happening and G&G NOT being somehow a part of it has to be fairly close to nil.
Looking for another angle--toss in that stranger abductions are extremely rare but family abductions make up the very vast majority of abductions.
For me, the numbers don't tend to lie--even with irrationality and mental illness taken into account---it just seems improbable to the point of impossible that Anna's disappearance did not involve G&G.
If we are needing to simplify the search for Anna in a world of vast internet data, it seems, as such, that the key has to be within the world/data/information about G&G--from the time of Anna's birth (maybe a year or so prior?) until her disappearance. Who GB is only matters to the degree it imparts info about Anna--and I think the key is probably rather in GW's background. GW was her father, loved her and if he had to choose between her and GB, he clearly would choose GB, but would he make a deal to sell her for money (which GB would like) rather than kill her? If yes, GW would probably use further connections away from San Fran--more likely connections in NJ (Princeton), NY (Columbia) and Greece...and it sounds like he alienated most of those connections by the time of her disappearance, so that could be a pretty small circle of possible "helpers".
All of this makes me more interested in "Who was George Waters?"....I'm beginning to think that is the most important question to answer in finding Anna.
If this makes sense to anyone, maybe we start a thread on GW? I would love to impose upon annasmom's memory and graciousness to have her give us more detail and background on GW and his family/friends/colleagues/peers etc. Even just what you knew from his stories of his childhood/college or first hand during your time together or what you heard in the years after.
Just some initial thoughts and my final apology today is for the length of this post!
Finally, but most importantly, thank you to annasmom for showing such grace in the face of tragedy--it is truly inspirational and humbling.
chinacat67
Georgia on my mind
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Shorter, I promise! :blushing:
1. The attorney "BMW"--could that be a Waters? The attorney contacted had no memory/knowledge and the way the note dictated by GB to GW read in the Squibb about "needing to pay the rent, so bill me" and such, made it seem like to me that it was a friend or relative? Nobody assumes I won't bill them for my time except my close friends and family...
2. I reviewed GB's death certificate and after googling the medical terms learned that GW certified that GB died of brain death after cardiac death--well, that is how we all die--that is not a cause of death, that is how death happens. And the "vagal exhaustion" is not a current medical term nor could I find any real meaning to it. I have no doubt GB dictated what was to go on his death certificate. "Probable" throat cancer?? Why probable? Also, the surgery at Children's was to put in a feeding tube, per the certificate.
I think that he died of AIDS. It wasn't throat cancer, it was the Kaposi sarcoma from full-blown AIDS. Early AIDS is defined as death prior to June of 1981, so it was not only around already, he lived in the then-epicenter. Regardless whether there was any sexual relationship, it wouldn't surprise me if he was a drug user--dirty needles do the trick too. The Tenderloin would have been convenient for a drug habit and it could help explain the need for more and more constant money as well as their joint exacerbated delusions.
Remember back in those very early days of AIDS it was terrifying, thought to be contagious from saliva or touching and NOBODY admitted they had it or someone they knew died from it.
Important, again, only in that it can explain money and delusions to a degree but I don't know if it would have any bearing on Anna.
3. I presume "The Plan" was actually completed since all policies had GB as the bene...different insurance company, but in fact, they got the policy when they wanted, for the amount they wanted, and I bet somewhere in the records of the insurance co. is a Change of Beneficiary form from Anna to GB. Again, how much coincidence is too much coincidence with the timing of the policy. Did they think they needed a "reason" to change the beneficiary?
4. The flowchart of Love At First Sight is incredibly frightening--insight into someone completely out there. But, I did note that GW did exactly what GB said would happen in all cases---LAFS whether reciprocated or not, per GB, leads ultimately to heartbreak....and suicide. GW was just still doing what he had been directed to do when he cleaned out everything and killed himself. Tell me he didn't use cyanide (in a dose he imagined Hitler used?)...even after his death, GW orchestrated the next steps.
1. The attorney "BMW"--could that be a Waters? The attorney contacted had no memory/knowledge and the way the note dictated by GB to GW read in the Squibb about "needing to pay the rent, so bill me" and such, made it seem like to me that it was a friend or relative? Nobody assumes I won't bill them for my time except my close friends and family...
2. I reviewed GB's death certificate and after googling the medical terms learned that GW certified that GB died of brain death after cardiac death--well, that is how we all die--that is not a cause of death, that is how death happens. And the "vagal exhaustion" is not a current medical term nor could I find any real meaning to it. I have no doubt GB dictated what was to go on his death certificate. "Probable" throat cancer?? Why probable? Also, the surgery at Children's was to put in a feeding tube, per the certificate.
I think that he died of AIDS. It wasn't throat cancer, it was the Kaposi sarcoma from full-blown AIDS. Early AIDS is defined as death prior to June of 1981, so it was not only around already, he lived in the then-epicenter. Regardless whether there was any sexual relationship, it wouldn't surprise me if he was a drug user--dirty needles do the trick too. The Tenderloin would have been convenient for a drug habit and it could help explain the need for more and more constant money as well as their joint exacerbated delusions.
Remember back in those very early days of AIDS it was terrifying, thought to be contagious from saliva or touching and NOBODY admitted they had it or someone they knew died from it.
Important, again, only in that it can explain money and delusions to a degree but I don't know if it would have any bearing on Anna.
3. I presume "The Plan" was actually completed since all policies had GB as the bene...different insurance company, but in fact, they got the policy when they wanted, for the amount they wanted, and I bet somewhere in the records of the insurance co. is a Change of Beneficiary form from Anna to GB. Again, how much coincidence is too much coincidence with the timing of the policy. Did they think they needed a "reason" to change the beneficiary?
4. The flowchart of Love At First Sight is incredibly frightening--insight into someone completely out there. But, I did note that GW did exactly what GB said would happen in all cases---LAFS whether reciprocated or not, per GB, leads ultimately to heartbreak....and suicide. GW was just still doing what he had been directed to do when he cleaned out everything and killed himself. Tell me he didn't use cyanide (in a dose he imagined Hitler used?)...even after his death, GW orchestrated the next steps.
ChinaCat 67, I appreciate all the thought which has gone into these two posts. Many of us have gone over and over what information we have, and it is always good to have new eyes on the situation.
I'll try to answer some of your questions. No, the attorney is not a Waters. I have his name somewhere in my files. He has been questioned, but as I recall he claimed to barely remember George. He was a friend of GW's brother.
Vagal exhaustion: The vagal nerve is our "off" switch. GW, who filled out the death certificate with a false birthdate and missing SSN, chose that term. I really do think this was a matter of throat cancer. GW tried to treat it with "alternative" medicine.
The "reason" for changing the beneficiary could have been that GW's child was a more typical beneficiary. Certainly the date on this overlooked note was extraordinary.
I don't believe that GB went to Princeton (or any college, for that matter) and I don't believe he was a drug user. I'm happy to expound on this, but that may not be necessary.
As to starting a thread on GW himself, there are privacy issues here which would make me very reluctant to do this unless there are pressing reasons to do so. He has living siblings and other relatives who are as heartbroken as we have been over the tragic turn the life of this brilliant man took.
Let me know any specific questions you might have about all of this and I'll try to answer.
Dr. Doogie
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Chinacat67:
Thank you for your insights. As Annasmom said above, we appreciate any reasoned input that anyone can provide.
I agree with Annasmom concerning a thread about Waters' family and background. His family is above repoach in character and have been as distraught concerning Anna as has been her immediate family. If any questions do arise in this area, they would be best examined in PM's.
Concerning the AIDS issue: any "wasting" disease death in SF around this time is suspect, but the likely cause of death was simple throat cancer. There remains in my mind a question about the full nature of the GB/GW relationship as to whether it may have included a sexual component, but that appears to be irrelavent to our search for Anna. (I recognize that you mentioned drugs, not sex, as a possiblr transmission source, but I just wanted to address this issue also.)
I fully agree that the probability of the Georges not being involved in Anna's disappearance is small. We need to focus our efforts there.
Thank you for your insights. As Annasmom said above, we appreciate any reasoned input that anyone can provide.
I agree with Annasmom concerning a thread about Waters' family and background. His family is above repoach in character and have been as distraught concerning Anna as has been her immediate family. If any questions do arise in this area, they would be best examined in PM's.
Concerning the AIDS issue: any "wasting" disease death in SF around this time is suspect, but the likely cause of death was simple throat cancer. There remains in my mind a question about the full nature of the GB/GW relationship as to whether it may have included a sexual component, but that appears to be irrelavent to our search for Anna. (I recognize that you mentioned drugs, not sex, as a possiblr transmission source, but I just wanted to address this issue also.)
I fully agree that the probability of the Georges not being involved in Anna's disappearance is small. We need to focus our efforts there.
Cubby
fly the W!
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George Waters family are considered victims here at WS, as Anna is their missing relative also. Sleuthing of GW's family is not allowed per TOS.
OT- Guys, I am hoping to be back online more around TG. Real life has some emergency issues which I have to give all my attention to right now and that is leaving no online time.
OT- Guys, I am hoping to be back online more around TG. Real life has some emergency issues which I have to give all my attention to right now and that is leaving no online time.
Today's online New York Times has a video, "November 22, 1963" which features Josiah "Tink" Thompson, the private investigator who worked on Anna's case (and found not a single clue). He is discussing President Kennedy's assassination and not Anna's case, of course, but some of you might be interested in seeing what he looks like. He told DrDoogie that Anna's case haunted him and remained one of the big unresolved investigations he has handled over the years.
SideKick
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~ Thank you!
Wonderful narrator, I have always been captivated by the Kennedy shooting.
Seems, the 2 G's really covered their footsteps with the disappearance of Anna. Though, it takes one spec of evidence, is that piece still out there?
one_hooah_wife
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Came across this listing Eifee Duquette IMDBhttp://m.imdb.com/name/nm5450104/ Might be interesting to find out more even if it is just to discover the origin of the unusual name.http://m.imdb.com/name/nm5450104/
MissMarple
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Only thing that I came up is since famous Seka is still not found and she may heard or knows something, someone has to contact foundation of Bil Gates's wife and ask her to help in the search since they spend each summer in Skradin where Seka used to have summer house.
MissMarple
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The Gates would need 15 minutes to find this info.
Since nobody has been able to update Anna's web page, we haven't been able to let people know about the book Searching for Anna, but I just discovered that Amazon has an author's page where it is possible to promote the book. If you want to take a look, Google the name of the book and look for Author's Page. Just a very brief statement.
FrenchConnection
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Hi Annasmom,
I'm new here, I don't know if you saw my introduction. What do you mean, no one has been able to update the website? Is there some technical issue? Something we could help with?
- Lori
I'm new here, I don't know if you saw my introduction. What do you mean, no one has been able to update the website? Is there some technical issue? Something we could help with?
- Lori
The person who set up the website doesn't want to do it any more and nobody else knows how. The domain name, etc., have been paid up for the next several years, but the material is badly out of date. Any advice you might have is very welcome!
FrenchConnection
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You would need to get some information from the person who designed the website. Depending on how it was originally set up, they would need to send you the source files, hosting access codes, and ideally, some information about how it was created. It seems like the format of the website isn't too complicated, I don't think it would be too difficult to update it?
I wonder if it was created using one of those "easy website" WYSIWYG editors? It would be helpful to know how it was created, as it would possibly be easier to update it by using the same tool.
I have some basic HTML knowledge, I did my own business website a long time ago with one of those "easy site creators". Those are easy to update, but the way to update a website really depends on how it was done in the first place... as far as I know!
I am certainly no expert, but I have done many website translation projects so I know about certain technical aspects, but not everything. When I have worked on these types of projects, I wasn't involved in the webmaster tasks, but I could possibly figure it out if you can get the details from the person who designed it.
Of course, someone else would have to provide the updated text, photos, etc to be included!
Dr. Doogie
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To the person who submitted the possible match for Anna in Walnut Creek: the woman is 32 years old, too young for Anna. Thanks for bringing this woman to our attention.
Of course it is now 2014, not 2013, but I just wanted to note that the website Searching for Anna is no longer available. The person handling this did not want to do it any more, and I do not have access to the page or to the host site. The domain name is paid up for a couple more years, but I think the hosting fee was due in May and I do not know where to send it. If anybody has any ideas about how to handle this, I would be very appreciative. Is anybody out there? Hello?
PepperP
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Hi Annasmom, I see the website is hosted by Network Solutions. From their website I found the following phone number for website hosting support questions: 1-866-391-4357. I think this number is your best bet in regards to paying the hosting fee.
If you want to search their site, here's the URL: http://www.networksolutions.com.
Best of luck.
PepperP
Thank you very much, PepperP. I need to decide now whether there is any point in going forward with the web page and paying the hosting fee, especially since I do not know how to update it and make changes myself. There seems to be very little action or interest in the case right now; it may be that we have all given it our best effort and can't think of anything else to do.
shadowdancer
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Hi Annasmom. I am interested in Anna's case, I just don't know what I can do to help. I think of Anna a lot and I am gradually working my way through the old threads.
If you or anyone else needs help with anything, let me know and I will try my best. Unfortunately I am clueless about setting up websites, though.
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