Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by imjustagirl123, Dec 27, 2014.
Here's another link http://www.cnbc.com/id/102297363
This is the normal flight route apparently (grey line) .. according to Google.
(Sorry Schmae .. just saw your post .. here is the screenshot anyway)
Sky News ‏@SkyNews 2m2 minutes ago
Missing Jet: 'Plane Door' Seen In Search - AFP http://news.sky.com/story/1399546/missing-jet-plane-door-seen-in-search-afp
7News Yahoo!7 ‏@Y7News 17s17 seconds ago
#BREAKING Reports objects resembling emergency slide, plane door seen in #AirAsia #QZ850 search. More to come.
Please continue here....
From the last thread
Bringing over this link of the new incident that happened in Pakistan on Dec 30 where a large 737 plane skidded off the side of runway. Luckily nobody got hurt. I suspect the previous repairs may have been faulty because a similar incident happened not long ago with this plane and they supposedly fixed it. There was mention of a bird strike hitting the landing gear too although I dont think that caused this since it should have been able to handle the bird strike. The previous repairs are more suspect to me and especially because of the way they describe it.
"After landing on runway 36L the airplane went to the right off the side of the runway. It came to rest in the grass with a collapsed left hand main gear. "
"The airplane, AP-BJN, had been involved in a prior accident on April 22, 2012 when the left hand undercarriage strut penetrated through the upper wing upon landing at Karachi. The aircraft was repaired and flew again on May 16, 2014."
There has been very confusing reporting. Was someone wearing a life jacket or not?? The report below, would indicate that there is no confirmation that anyone was wearing a life jacket.
JAKARTA - None of the bodies found so far in the hunt for the doomed Indonesia AirAsia flight QZ8501 were wearing life jackets, an official of Indonesia's search and rescue agency said on Wednesday, contradicting earlier reports that one of the bodies had a life jacket on. There was a victim, a man, and a life jacket. They were found apart. He was not wearing a life jacket, Basarnas operations deputy, Major-General Tatang Zaenuddin, was quoted as saying by a report on Detik.com news website. So far, none of the bodies had life jackets on. Earlier, the official was cited as saying a body recovered from the crashed plane was wearing a life jacket, raising questions about how the disaster unfolded. "This morning, we recovered a total of four bodies and one of them was wearing a life jacket," Tatang Zaenudin said according to Reuters. He declined to speculate on what the find might mean.
There has been a lot of conflicting reports. Since there are a lot of different boats and different parties helping with the recovery I suspect some of the reports are coming from different sources.
Some reports will probably turn out to be inaccurate and some may take awhile to be validated and become "official". I just hope the "officials" dont try to hide any accurate information.
The most recent report from CNN last night had 7 people recovered. It seemed pretty accurate to me because they were referring to a new person being found that added to the previous known 6. So for me personally, I am sticking with 7 found so far.
more on this
This link below just shows where the emergency exists are located in relation to the seating charts.
I just hope the "officials" dont try to hide any accurate information;
Because aviation has gotten so safe the last decade, there are not many accidents to make natl headlines. Prior to MAL370 straight news reports especially in the first month after a major air carrier accident were pretty straightforward public/media wise. At this point there was nothing being "hidden".
In commercial stuff the sleaziness came in typically 18-24 months afterward, not in the media spotlight, when NTSB "probable cause" was cemented, and published in the final report.
Then it get gets sleazy. Pilot error very common, (and true in the context of how much we have learned as it relates to human factors in aviation accidents). 20 years ago this one would have probably been an inclement weather probable cause.
But since MA LA 370 and its mysterious ways , now the basic feeling is there is a lot of "lying" form the onset. None of what happened in the first three weeks of MAL , all the overt lying (all behavior has meaning) had never happened before).ANd cause of that they media focus is not not trusting. When there is nothing neararious or deviant going on, there is no agenda, to not find out, and have whats found reported. They are tradegies.
Prior to all the mal370 shannigans the headlines this week would have been like:
Air Asia flight crashes into the ocean
262 feared dead in AIr Asia crash
none of this missing, vanished,"stuff" would ever be in or a part of the story. ANd becasue this is a aviation accident, a plane crash,what has happened for eternity, after some time, wreckage was located- becasue the plane crashed and we now proceed with whats and why
with todays search technolgy, airplanes that have crashed are located. The media is confusing two very importaint things here. IN the past there was not the technology to look for and find downed planes in remote places. None of those planes vanished, they were just unable to be found.That is a very important distiction that gets lost whenver an aviation event has happened since 370.
A this week illisturates, today our technology does affort us the capabiltiy to locate crashed planes in tough areas. Only planes that are reported to crash, that have not, vanish. We certainly have the capablity - heck Google earth to locate any plane crash on land anywhere, and as this week clearly shows we can now do so under water-pretty strgihtforward!
Aviation accident investigation got more sophisticated, it became clear that rarely was there one thing that cause a major commercial accident, but a chain link of events.
IN this context, if any one of the links were removed, and all the other links remained an accident would not have occurred.
easiest way to share this angle is to just do some links in chain!
-they will start with what was the airlines basic unspoken rules about monsoon flying
-they will talk to a lot of crews to ascertain the degree of subtle pressure flight crews felt by management to proceed
- they will look for weather related incidents to see how this pressure works in real life on the line
-they will explore ways Air Asia communicates its weather info and its warnings
-they will explore each indie flight crew propensity to be "driven", take chances, to complete the segment on time
-they will be looking for colleague statements like he was by the book, or one time when i flew with him i def did not think we should have departed – that kind of stuff
-they will ask friends and family how pressure their loved one felt to complete – did he feel their might be consequences if the he canceled the flight
-were there covert pressures to keep fuel reserves as tight as poss on each flight $
-if they had internal weather folks what were the policies procedures, they will get the manuals and read them
- what was the airlines weather (upper management in that department) notions about delaying or canceling
-what percentage of flights did that dept actual cancel or hold or reroute prior to departure
- was their friction between line captains and the department
-did flight crews feel respected by the dept
-from all departments and employees what is the overall feel as it relates to getting flights out period
that is one link in the chain
another link would be the aircraft itself
-same deal, what is the maintenance dept staff notions about management pushing them to delay repairs if it meant a cancel
-did not maintenance folks feel supported when mechanic did not release an aircraft for flight
-did line mechanics appeared pressured by maintenance management to meet numbers
-were shortcuts encouraged? OK? firmly prohibited
-did line crews feel as if there shifts were staffed correctly or did they feel understaffed chronically
another link in the chain
did the particular aircraft, historically, show a particular issue that kept popping up
-how was it addressed
-did it cease the problem or did it keep reoccurring
-what was managements response to more expensive maintenance recommendations
-what calibration testing standards do they use to assure reliability in radar altimeters etc
-do staff performing those calibrations feel supported if they verbalize a concern or rec a replacement
record keeping link
- did the maintenance debt records "feel" as if it was an effort to look good, or to actually track each aircraft medical history accurately and timely.
- did staff feel like their sign offs were being reviewed or rubber stamped by management
each crew members life
-in this case the funeral will be huge
-were they close
-what was pilots behavior like after funeral -
-did many of his colleagues know about the funeral
-how many hours he sleep
-did he smoke
-what was his marriage like-
-his relation to his children
-was he respected by peers
-did colleagues like flying whit him or prefer someone else
-what climate did he create in the cockpit
-did other feel it is OK to bring up a concern or would they tend to keep quiet
-had the two pilots on this segment flown tighter before, how often, what was their relationship like
-how others who have flown with each of them rate their skills, are they rule benders, or strictly by the book
-time of departure
-body clock issues
-had the flight crew been on the 3 in the morning schedule for some time
-how did they feel about it
-did they complain about it
-on the cockpit voice recorder was there i am tired, i wish i slept last night stuff
-excessive yawning heard on tape
-asking for three cups of coffee before push back
-time went to bed each night the previous week/time of awakening
-either wear glasses -anyone notice if another crew member appeared to be having a hard time reading material
-complaint of a headache sore foot, fight with child that morning
-car wouldn’t start on way in
-hassle with boarding
-fuel load issue
-conflict with gate agent-
-concern in maintenance log for that aircraft
-argument over that item
-affair with cabin crew member on the flight
-trouble closing the cabin door
communication with control tower
-any difficulty understanding each other
-any off hand comments in cockpit regarding the controller handling the flight
-overt tension between them
-reverse it for the air traffic control and the flight crew
-how much conversation about weather in cockpit
-difference of opinion between crew members about how to handle weather before takeoff
-final plan established between the two regarding what would occur as it relates to the weather once airborne
once in the air
-did he dialog about the weather ahead indicate increasing concern
-discussion about turning back and canceling-
-any discussion between the two regarding reports from planes ahead of them
-how many other diversion requests had they overheard
-what reports were they hearing from pilots ahead of them about conditions ahead
-dialog between the two crew members regarding the effects of the weather on the aircraft along the way
-what sounds were being heard, turbulence, wind shelf wipers
-trouble maintain heading and speeds before getting close
-cabin crew questions about when to start service – delay or proceed?
-dialog right before requesting diversion between pilots
-response after climb refused
-discussion about the left turn appearing as if issue mitigated
-response when seeing the cloud for the first time after the divert (panic/feeling it was more of a hassle or a serious situation
-cockpit microphone noises at this time
-hear maintain control of aircraft becoming more difficult
AirAsia QZ8501: Grieving families return to Surabaya hotel to find luggage removed from room
Some families of passengers of AirAsia Flight QZ8501 were surprised on Wednesday when they returned to their rooms at Hotel Halogen and found their luggage outside, reported Indonesia news portal Detik.com.
The hotel, which is near Juanda International Airport, had reportedly removed the luggage because the rooms were booked for the new year.
A Halogen Hotel receptionist said the decision to remove the luggage from the rooms was approved by AirAsia, and that AirAsia staff helped to move some of the items.
Oh ... how embarrassing ... sorry for all the same posts on the last page of the last thread! My post wasn't posting, then it posted a zillion times. :blush:
I might ask a nice mod and see if they can get rid of a few hundred of them. And no, CARIIS, I hadn't even had a vino yet ... but I have now, so watch out! :toast:
Did I miss the report of what was causing the smoke from the long island?
I hope they did not just dismiss it in the excitement of finding debris.
The debris and bodies could have been carried on down by the current.
The long island is an island out from but part of Jepara.
I hope this link is acceptable.
ETA I had the wrong name for the town (Jakarta).
Jepara is across the waterway from Borneo and could still be close enough for survivors.
The governor of Indonesia’s East Java province canceled New Year’s Eve celebrations in the region, according to the BBC. A public memorial is slated for Wednesday evening in Surabaya.
And here are the 40 people again, in an updated new article in usually up-to-date and reliable publication.
I guess only time will tell, maybe they have not been officially received by the rescue centre yet, but I do hope they find everyone.
Authorities have recovered at least 40 bodies from the search zone. Some of the victims were wearing life jackets, fueling speculation that at least some of the plane’s passengers may have been alive after the plane went down and before it sank. Officials have wondered why the pilots did not issue a distress call, even though it appears there may have been some forewarning that the aircraft was in trouble.
And in this new article.
There are reports of at least 40 bodies being found in the Java Sea, seven of which have been retrieved.
No victim from crashed AirAsia plane was wearing life jacket: Official
"There is no victim that has been found wearing a life jacket," said Tatang Zaenudin, deputy head of operations at the national search and rescue agency.
"We found a body at 8.20 a.m. and a life jacket at 10.32 am so there was a time difference. This is the latest information we have," he added.
The same official told Reuters earlier that one of the recovered bodies had been wearing a life jacket.