Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #8

[Rocket333]

“I would imagine that IF there was any sexual assault, that evidence is now long gone.”

Might be partly the goal of the accused persons silence.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Adrian Bayley’s sentencing for the rape & murder of Jill Meagher in 2012:

“Before passing sentence Justice Geoffrey Nettle went into significant detail about Adrian Bayley's background and his criminal past, providing additional information to that outlined at Bayley's pre-sentence hearing last week.”

New details emerge about Bayley’s past

He raped his first victim when his wife was pregnant with their first child

www.irishtimes.com

This Bayley monster proves just how important it is to take into account priors IMO. He clearly did not show any signs of stopping his abhorrent behaviour and his time behind bars was neither a deterrent nor rehabilitation. Nor did his punishment seem enough for his crimes, and the fact he was allowed out on bail is blood boiling to me. It's clear to me that he would have continued his offending and poor Jill Meagher paid the price for that decision.

 

[Trooper]

Adrian Bayley’s sentencing for the rape & murder of Jill Meagher in 2012:

“Before passing sentence Justice Geoffrey Nettle went into significant detail about Adrian Bayley's background and his criminal past, providing additional information to that outlined at Bayley's pre-sentence hearing last week.”

New details emerge about Bayley’s past

He raped his first victim when his wife was pregnant with their first child

www.irishtimes.com

Are you sure that’s true in all cases? In the Claremont serial killer case in WA the prosecution were able to present propensity evidence, drawing the connection between a couple of prior offences

Claremont Killings | Rule of Law Education Centre

www.ruleoflaw.org.au

Any priors he does have, and no one is saying he has, in this instance , would not be made public ( that is , in the court room during his trial ) until the time when the judge segues into the sentencing component of the Summing up of the trial. What is, in effect, the judgement of the crime and the consequence to the convicted.

It is kept from the jury, and is supposed to be kept from the general public from whom the jury is chosen, but sometimes things leak out, over time. IF this happens to a certain level , the trial venue is changed to where an 'untainted' jury can be chosen. Often, the actual accused has these things leak out, precisely to delay and obfuscate the process. It does happen. Some times the accused will claim they cannot get a fair trial due to high saturation publicity ( Chris Dawson did this recently, and his trial was delayed for months, a year, maybe more ) ..


A quick reminder, Victoria does not have the statute whereby an accused can request a Judge Only trial and it be granted. To have that in Victoria, a judge must decide if it is in the best interest of the law, and the community in general for this to take place. For example, George Pell's trial was a judge only trial. Because of it's content. ( Salacious and disturbing sexual crimes ) . SO he most likely will face a jury.

Not often does Judge Only trials happen in Victoria, unlike, say, NSW, or the ACT. There is a cost involved in this , in NSW , I think, and a different roster of judges are used, too.

 

[Trooper]

If the accused took MDMA, the only crime he or she would be guilty of is hugging you to death and telling you much they loved you. With Ketamine, the accused wouldn't have the energy to do anything. So you can rule those two drugs out as a murder weapon immediately.

Note: Ketamine is regularly used in the ER and hospitals to control pain. It's very effective but renders the patient quite docile.
It's usually the drug administered for what is refered to as a medically induced coma. I'm sure you've heard of it. That's Ketamine.

Medically authorised MDMA trials are now underway in Australia in a world first to help with PTSD and related conditions. This drug is not the big boogyman people assume.

<modsnip - discussing moderation on the thread>

Yes , thankyou, but as you can see, the original poster bought up the matter of ketamine, and MDMA and I was responding to that mention. ..


And yes, ketamine and myself are on nodding terms, clinically speaking. If that information is required.

I have in deed, as I stated, ruled out drugs, alcohol , any illegal or legal substance ingested as a guiding factor in Mrs. Murphy's murder. Her murder was , I think, for want of better wording, a highly organised matter, particularly the disposal of her body. Not the usual attributes pertinent to the drug /alcohol affected.

 

[Trooper]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
I would imagine that IF there was any sexual assault, that evidence is now long gone.

I hope he was stupid enough to use her clothing to clean himself up a bit.. a lot of killers get caught that way, even years later, when bits of fabric are hauled out of the cold case box, and science catches up, ... it is not an impossible scenario to contemplate..

 

[Fabre17]

Ketamine is also used by vets to tranquilise horses. I’m sure it would be widely available in regional areas like Ballarat. Could SM have been given a dose to keep her quiet (and breathing), so she could be moved to another location - for what purpose I have no idea.

 

[Nifty]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
I would imagine that IF there was any sexual assault, that evidence is now long gone.

Depends on where the body is

If there is any video evidence, witnesses that have come forward etc..

Clothing etc

 

[Nifty]

I think the judge or magistrate does take prior convictions into consideration, particularly those of a similar nature . .imo

Agree

After my previous posts were removed, talking about this !

Especially now with SM presumably dead, she is not there to defend herself

SM's family by all reports are well off, so they will have a good legal team as well

 

[Nifty]

This Bayley monster proves just how important it is to take into account priors IMO. He clearly did not show any signs of stopping his abhorrent behaviour and his time behind bars was neither a deterrent nor rehabilitation. Nor did his punishment seem enough for his crimes, and the fact he was allowed out on bail is blood boiling to me. It's clear to me that he would have continued his offending and poor Jill Meagher paid the price for that decision.

The horrendous part, he was on parole for other rapes and also on bail

A joke of a system !

 

[Trooper]

Agree

After my previous posts were removed, talking about this !

Especially now with SM presumably dead, she is not there to defend herself

SM's family by all reports are well off, so they will have a good legal team as well

SM's family has the best money can buy in Victoria , the Public Prosecutor and the entire Dept. of Public Prosecution backing the Public Prosecutor. !! They are SM's legal team. They cost her family nothing, they are entitled to the very best the Public Prosecutor can produce.

His Barrister is up against some of the most experienced criminal lawyers in AU, a challenge, which any Barrister worth his salt will relish, I presume.

 

[Dr Samoht]

Ketamine is also used by vets to tranquilise horses. I’m sure it would be widely available in regional areas like Ballarat. Could SM have been given a dose to keep her quiet (and breathing), so she could be moved to another location - for what purpose I have no idea.

Probably only available to veterinarians ,not the public generally .
Moved her alive somewhere else within the Mt Clear boundary you are suggesting ?

 

[Fabre17]

Probably only available to veterinarians ,not the public generally .
Moved her alive somewhere else within the Mt Clear boundary you are suggesting ?

Isn’t gf a vet student? Inside the romantic relationship of Samantha Murphy's accused killer

 

[Trooper]

Isn’t gf a vet student? Inside the romantic relationship of Samantha Murphy's accused killer

Nice pickup there, Fabre!!

 

[SouthAussie]

Isn’t gf a vet student? Inside the romantic relationship of Samantha Murphy's accused killer

I think it would be entirely unlawful for a veterinary student (one who is not a registered vet yet) to have access to ketamine.

It is a Schedule 8 drug.

Schedule 8 drugs must be stored in a locked cabinet. Details of the cabinet specifications can be obtained from State and Territory health departments. If transport of the drug is necessary, a locked receptacle is required. Storage facilities must be secured to prevent access by unauthorised persons at all times.
Staff of a practice, who are not registered veterinarians, are not ‘authorised persons’ under the drugs and poisons legislation and should not have access to the contents of this cabinet.

https://www.ava.com.au/siteassets/resources/prescribing-guidelines/guidelines-for-prescribing-authorising-and-dispensing-veterinary-medicines-october-2023.pdf

 

[Dr Samoht]

I think it would be entirely unlawful for a veterinary student (one who is not a registered vet yet) to have access to ketamine.

It is a Schedule 8 drug.

Schedule 8 drugs must be stored in a locked cabinet. Details of the cabinet specifications can be obtained from State and Territory health departments. If transport of the drug is necessary, a locked receptacle is required. Storage facilities must be secured to prevent access by unauthorised persons at all times.
Staff of a practice, who are not registered veterinarians, are not ‘authorised persons’ under the drugs and poisons legislation and should not have access to the contents of this cabinet.

https://www.ava.com.au/siteassets/resources/prescribing-guidelines/guidelines-for-prescribing-authorising-and-dispensing-veterinary-medicines-october-2023.pdf

So we can rule out the ketamine angle then .

 

[drsleuth]

Ketamine certainly is used illegally as a recreational drug.

It's a dissociative drug.

Ketamine use in Australia - Alcohol and Drug Foundation

Recreational ketamine use in Australia: Risks, effects, and safety measures. Ketamine's legal medical applications versus illicit misuse highlighted.

adf.org.au

We have no idea if PS used this or any other illict drug in the relevant time period thou.

It's main use is for anaesthetic purposed in the medical field.

 

[Trooper]

So we can rule out the ketamine angle then .

Not yet!!!

 

[BreakingNews]

This Bayley monster proves just how important it is to take into account priors IMO. He clearly did not show any signs of stopping his abhorrent behaviour and his time behind bars was neither a deterrent nor rehabilitation. Nor did his punishment seem enough for his crimes, and the fact he was allowed out on bail is blood boiling to me. It's clear to me that he would have continued his offending and poor Jill Meagher paid the price for that decision.

But he did not go to trial. So no priors needed to be withheld.

 

[Fabre17]

Not yet!!!

Ketamine is highly available, like any other illegal drugs. Particularly from OMCG’s.

 

[BreakingNews]

This Bayley monster proves just how important it is to take into account priors IMO. He clearly did not show any signs of stopping his abhorrent behaviour and his time behind bars was neither a deterrent nor rehabilitation. Nor did his punishment seem enough for his crimes, and the fact he was allowed out on bail is blood boiling to me. It's clear to me that he would have continued his offending and poor Jill Meagher paid the price for that decision.

HB1, there is a huge difference in taking into account priors. If the accused is pleading not guilty and the case goes to trial, priors are not raised. The jury's job is to determine guilt on the current charge/s only. This is to ensure a fair trial of the current charge/s. It is after the jury makes its decision can a judge bring up priors when sentencing. However if the accused pleads guilty, the priors can be raised. It's all about a fair trial and not swaying a jury on anything other than the current charge/s.