Satiated

[Sabrina]

"Ned: Yes, the system in which Sabrina was referring to is the DNA database currently in place set up by the government to identify possible suspects by coding their DNA profile. The DNA in the Ramsey case CANNOT be run through this system because not enough DNA markers are present to make a sucessful match.
The DNA was degraded as such that only I believe 6 markers were present"

Ned- Lin Wood announced a few months ago that with recent technology thet were able to pull out 9 markers and could enter it into Codis but the BPD "NEVER" did this, he was hoping Keenan would. I called the SDPD crime lab and spoke to the supervisor. He said with 9 markers they could compare it to the CODIS banks. The Ca bank is just like doing a google search he said. They fax everything to the FBI and it takes them up to a week to get the results back. He said they are sending lots of samples in to the databanks, even convicted car jackers.

So I am assuming this was done- since it's no big deal.

I also got a lesson on "degraded" DNA-- I am sure you have too I am convinced the DNA was from some 6 year old playmate from several days before and they are never going to match it unless he commits a sex crime when he grows up!

 

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Toth
There are a variety of theories about this case, some of them so absurd as to be humorus.

I don't think we need deal with the really far out stuff such as Patsy killed JonBenet when she suddenly realized JonBenet was going to grow up to be too short for the Miss America Pageant.

I don't think we deal with the 'kiled for the insurance money' since there was no insurance policy and the Ramseys have spent a small fortune on lawyers and investigators.

But for those of you who think this was a murder by a pedophile, what about saitey?

Has he not killed since?
Has he killed in a different manner?
Why was there 'minimal' sexual activity compared to what is often done to such vicitms both before and after death?
If the garotte was fashioned so as to prolong the death, did this particular crime fully satisfy his blood lust?

//////......where's thje URL/info/facts that insurance wasn't a motive/gift for trauma???...!!!...I'm sure the R's has insurance on JonBenet thru John's work/business...don't ya think that it was an abundant amount???...!!!


http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/columnists/harriet_brackey/6015298.htm
And McBride notes that in the past 20 years, far more resources have been made available to parents of missing children. For example, her organization will organize a massive distribution of fliers. It also supports Team Adam, which consists mostly of retired law enforcement officials who mount a SWAT team effort when a child disappears. Both services are free.

 

[ayjey]

Originally posted by Toth
Please don't waste my time with this "Patsy-did-it" stuff. I would like this thread to focus on an intruder who killed JBR but then 'stopped'.
Is he no longer a pedophile or was he never a pedophile?
Is he no longer leaving notes, but still killing?
Is he no longer leaving victims in the home or even having them found?
What would make a supposed pedophile 'take a vacation for so many years'?

There was no pedophile .

A pedophile would have satisfied his sick fantasy by doing much more to this beautiful little 6 year old child than taking pleasure in watching her struggle to get a rope off her neck and bashing her over the head.

A pedophile would not have taken the time to redress and wrap his victim and place her in a dark room in the basement.

A pedophile would not have written a 3 page ransom note taunting the parents.

A sexual deviant maybe but not a pedophile.

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by MIBRO
The Ram$eys have already been throroughly investigated and there is convincing evidence of an intruder. Did you miss that statement? If you did, I can get the exact quotes.

Statement? - Oh yes, you must mean the statement by the bimbo Keenan who was always convinced Santa Bill is the perp.

Of course there is always the Judge's statement--based on "the evidence presented", (or was that LACK of evidence presented by the ever-so-lame Darnay Hoffman...)

When evaluating "statements", it's always best to consider the source. Many of the posters on this forum know more about this case than Carnes or Keenan--and that's pretty sad.

 

[sissi]

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/depts/clinic/wrongful/exonerations/Bloodsworth_MD.htm

Edit to add a working link,the first one was a better story,but
would not link. A google search for Kirk Bloodsworth,will detail
his ordeal. BTW,I never thought this man should have
been convicted,there was literally not a shred of evidence.

I hope you can just hit this as a link..it was only available in google cache...
The story leaves out a few details,but look at the kind of man
that murdered this child,he was not a pedophile,and consider
the slowness of the system in identifying him.

edit to add:
Many thought they had the killer,and kids ran wild in that
park ,unattended for years after the murder. The man who
killed this little girl,never killed another (as far as we know)
There is another crime ,two blocks from my house,a murder
of a 21 yr old woman outside of her home,to which he may eventually be linked,however,he was passed over as a suspect
for years,even though he was a sex offender . His dna sat in
a database for years before this match,nine I believe.

 

[Toth]

CODIS. Difference between being entered into the database and searching the database despite having fewer than 13 markers. However the second blood spot provided a full CODIS satisfactory profile.

 

[Toth]

Originally posted by ayjey
There was no pedophile .
Thats what I've been trying to tell people.

A pedophile would not have taken the time to redress and wrap his victim and place her in a dark room in the basement.
She was not re-dressed, merely had her panties pulled back up, I don't think she was 'wrapped' but there is some evidence she was, hidden would be a good idea no matter what his motivation.

A pedophile would not have written a 3 page ransom note taunting the parents.

I don't think he would be likely to have done so either, thats one reason I don't think this was just a pedophile with lots of time on his hands.

 

[Sabrina]

Originally posted by Toth
CODIS. Difference between being entered into the database and searching the database despite having fewer than 13 markers. However the second blood spot provided a full CODIS satisfactory profile.

Where is the source for this Toth?

I recall Wood stating they could pull out 9 markers due to new technology, which is searchable according to the Crime Lab I spoke to.

It can be searched but not entered--that is correct. But it can be searched every day if need be to see if a new profile was entered that it matches. It's just like doing a google search on the computer. No big long involved analysis.

 

[ayjey]

Originally posted by Toth
I don't think he would be likely to have done so either, thats one reason I don't think this was just a pedophile with lots of time on his hands.

What is YOUR theory on the type of person who would do this?

Do you think it was a neighbor? A street person? A college student? The Gardener? Chris Wolf? Thomas Aquina?


I still struggle with the theory that Patsy did this, I just can't bring myself to believe she was so stressed out that she killed her baby.

 

[Toth]

Originally posted by ayjey
>What is YOUR theory on the type of person who would do this?
Depends on which way the wind is blowing and what I had for breakfast.

>Do you think it was a neighbor?
Statistically, that is most likely (thats why cops always canvas the neighborhood), but I do not think it was a neighbor in this case, despite the difficulty of not having a nearby vantage point in cold weather
> A street person?
Such as Thomas Aquinas? I don't think of him as a street person, but he could well be leading a marginal life, such as a 'hanger-on' at a local college.

I think, most of the time, that the intruder was a perfectly normal male with perfectly normal interests in adult females and an ability to satisfy those interests without any problems. I think he is fairly 'well to do' though not wealthy. Quite well educated, particularly in a very technical field. I don't think he is a 'fat cat' but I think he is fairly plump financially, has a wide variety of interests and a few obsessions. I think if you met him you would find him to be likeable but not charmng; socialable but not social and very intense about a few principles.

>can't bring myself to believe she was so stressed out
>that she killed her baby.
It would seem to require alot of stress and that anyone who 'snapped' under that stress would not 'snap back' in time to write a convoluted note under such extreme conditions. It is really rather unlikely to say that 'holiday stress' or 'turning forty' did it.

 

[ayjey]

someone that at one time was close to the Ramsey's, i.e., FW?

 

[Jayelles]

No - "GP".

 

[ayjey]

ya think?

 

[sissi]

Toth just described ,fairly well,one of the suspects. He was cleared, however did the police run his dna?
He was a well educated man, I am not saying boy,because he graduated from U of Boulder about 4 yrs older than the normal age for graduation.
What has disturbed me for years about him was his web site.
His life was full of ultraviolent ideas,web creations and writings.
He read Douglas,as he copied and pasted the photo from his book,the one of the camouflaged adult sitting on a vehicle after brutalizing a barbie. His portrayal of "barbie",caught the attention of Mattel and he was ordered to remove it from the site,Barbie with her decapitated head on a platter dripping in blood,barbie in bondage, many references to barbie. Barbie was the icon that made so many little girls feel bad about themselves,they could never reach high enough to meet the standard. He had a sister,and it was said she fell into the barbie trap. Did this mean she was ill,anorexic,etc.? who knows,not I.
His heads up letter ,sent in March of 1998 telling friends he was a suspect in a nationally reported sex crime,saying the police asked him about others,RH,JM,KM,and his saying they showed no interest in talking to them,but here's your "heads up". Why did they need a heads up? Did the police ever check these people??

I feel the police have been close to finding the killer,but never took the steps necessary ,never quite got past the Ramseys. Too bad they allowed their alpha male to influence them so.
JMO IMO

 

[Barbara]

"I feel the police have been close to finding the killer,but never took the steps necessary ,never quite got past the Ramseys."

There are very good reasons for that.

BTW, the Alpha Male was Alex Hunter and he was business partners and breakfast buddies with the Ram$ey attornies.

That explains to me why they were "close" but couldn't quite get close enough to the "real killer/s"

 

[twilight]

The trick here is that many of the wrongfully accused are disadvantaged. The police - if such happens- find a suspect with low probability of staging an adequate defence and nail him for the sake of expendience. NOTE: I said 'if such happens' and I meant it. I'm not convinced it's a common occurrence.

There have been cases of wrongful conviction, but they are never wealthy people with good legal resources. (oh, except for poor OJ of course...if you could hear me you would notice a dollop of sarcasm dripping from my tongue).

Were the BPD to want to frame some inidividual for this crime, they would pick some frameable individual.

Praise goes to the cop who solves the crime and expediates the process...bigger praise goes to the cop who can present enough evidence to make the case fly in court. That's how the system works. It is $$ based...like any other system in a capitalist economy.

Nobody goes after wealthy well-lawyered suspects as a first choice. This is a path to disaster. Overtime - fiscal loss. Spin teams and difficult trials...tying up manpower for many hours.

What the BPD were stuck with was no other choice. They wanted to eliminate the Rams who would not cooperate. This is a big red flag and hard to get around - non-cooperation.

In the meantime, you can't tell me they wouldn't have been ecstatic if some weird, wanked ped had stumbled into the station and confessed all. Case closed - no more money spent - budget saved - Yeah! Yeah! WWP goes to legal aid and everyone breaths a ~sigh~ of relief.

 

[sissi]

quote twilight:The trick here is that many of the wrongfully accused are disadvantaged

Yes that is the right answer,and had Patsy and John fit into this category,they would have been wrongfully accused ,as well. The had funds to protect themselves.

Latest news,if memory serves,is 127 saved from death row,can anyone imagine the thousands that could benefit from the "innocence project",if it could be expanded to include less serious offenses?
IMO JMO

 

[SisterSocks]

You preach on sister , I agree sissi. Girl I felt the power behind that post =)

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Mibro: DNA comparison does not stop at the number of markers, Ned.

Ned: Where did I state it did? I stated that the DNA in the Ramsey case was not run through Codis.

Mibro: Statistical values are placed on the match against population probabilities. Give me a break.

Ned: Statistical values? What statistical values?

Mibro: YOUR information is OLD. YOUR information is selective and taken out of context and spun into nonsense.

Ned: Old? My information comes from top scientists that work in the same field as I. True genetic testing is growing by leaps and bounds, but the facts are as stated: There are NOT enough genetic profile markers present found in the DNA sample collected from the Ramsey crime scene presently to make a sucessful conclusion to determine who the person may be. The DNA is TOO degraded. May I quote Dr. Lee "This is NOT a DNA case, the DNA can only rule someone out, it cannot be used to idenitify a suspect." It's as simple as that Mibro.

Mibro: ANYONE with ANY sense at all knows NONE of the Rameys were involved in the death of their daughter. TRY to get into 2003, okay. You are stuck in the spring of 1997 for heaven's sake.

Ned: Funny Mirbro, very funny, you will see if you take a poll that most Americans even after Lin Woods silly fiasco relase of the 911 tape, still conclude that the Ramsey's had something to do with the murder of their daughter, if not MORE so today, since we all have witnessed over the past years that the Ramsey's have done ABSOULTELY NOTHING, to help catch her killer. But it's okay Mibro, I understand you are still living in dream land.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Toth: It would seem to require alot of stress and that anyone who 'snapped' under that stress would not 'snap back' in time to write a convoluted note under such extreme conditions. It is really rather unlikely to say that 'holiday stress' or 'turning forty' did it.

Ned: Yeah that would be kind of like stating Susan Smith did it for the attention of another man. LOL Toth why oh why would you think that it's rather silly to say that Patsy accidently murdered JB in a sudden snap due to holiday stress or turning forty? Parents have murdered and or abused their children for less. Some just for the fun of it. Patsy's characteristics tell me she is a woman capable of such crime. Her handwriting matches the ransom note and it was her red fibers found at the crime scene.