Searching around Kyron's home

[Kimster]

This is about the possibility of TH hiding Kyron around the home. Please do not post general theories here. Thanks!

 

[cluciano63]

I think it is possible that Kyron could be near the school or the home. And that if this is a result of Terri, that her "aimless" driving around was in an effort to confuse the issue later on.

But-what doesn't work about that for me is that if Kyron is found on or near Horman property, then Terri is the prime suspect, no matter what. There is no way it could be Kaine, from what we know and I doubt anyone would believe that "someone else" put Kyron's body on the Horman's property. So, overall, no, I don't think so, though I did at first.

On the school property, yes. That would be another piece of blame against the school, if that is what she was after.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've read that and seen it discussed on TV, but the dogs didn't find Elizabeth Olten even though they had searched that area and she was buried in a pre-dug grave. (Admittedly, I'm not a pro when he comes to SAR).

There is always a chance that the dogs will miss a body.

In the Elizabeth Olten case, the time of year was working against them. It was late October, the ground was cooling off. Pre-digging the grave allowed the hole in the ground to cool off even more. The displaced soil also had a chance to cool off because it was somewhat separated from the thermal mass of the ground. It seems likely that she was put in that pre-dug grave very shortly after the moment of death. All those things worked against the searchers.

The time of year also worked in her killer's favour because plants are going into dormancy at that time of year. If she preserved the top layer of soil and vegetation to tamp back into place over the grave, the plants wouldn't be so likely to show signs of wilting or dying as they would in the middle of summer.

Her body was also found in three days. I think if she had been there longer, the dogs would have been more likely to find her. It takes time for the scent of decomposition to develop and then work its way to the surface of the ground.

In Kyron's case, he disappeared just at the beginning of summer. The ground will continue to heat up for another three months or so, which will tend to hasten decomposition. Any vegetation that was disturbed will show signs of disturbance (wilting, slower growth than plants immediately adjacent, etc).

Also, unlike the Elizabeth Olten case, most scavenger animals are highly active in the summer and persistent about finding potential food sources. In Elizabeth Olten's case, many of the species that might ordinarily dig up a body in a shallow grave had already gone into hybernation.

I think it is possible he could be near the Horman house but I consider it unlikely. I'd be more suspicious if there had been some freshly laid concrete (as in the Ashley Pond and Abraham Shakespeare cases).

 

[Oriah]

Actually (and I don't think this is the case, here, but...) I can see a child killed by a parent away from home- such as in a vehicle or at another location- and the parent driving/bringing the child back to their home and burying them there.

I had a case once where a toddler was killed (accidentally) on a camping trip by her mother. The mother drove 2 hours back home and buried the child in their 100+ yr old family graveyard on their property. Then called 911 and reported the child missing on the property.
I mean...whaaaa?
But it apparently happens.

 

[Mamietwo]

Does anyone know the name of the landscaper's (DeDe) company? Also, where do landscapers dump in that area? Do they go to the landfill or do they go to a landscape supply company that accepts grass, branches, etc? I work for a company that accepts recyclables (branches, grass, used sod, etc), and those piles get friggin' HUGE...easy to hide a body in

Just throwing my :twocents: out there. :cow:

OR, what if TH did the deed, then handed him off to DeDe to finish? Makes me sick to type that, ugh! :sick:

The name of DeDe's company is called DLS Enterprises, and I saw on one of the news links today (the one where DeDe was coming out from the GJ appearance) that the newscaster said that DLS Enterprises comes back to a post office box rental facility----not the U.S. Post Office----in Beaverton, OR.

(**Took me forever to get in to this box to post this, I don't know what the problem is but having many problems getting to a particular page today in WS)

 

[human]

There's two sticking points in this for me.

One that has always bothered me is how Terri could know for certain that no one had seen Kyron come back to her car that day. I just can't imagine her going to a school where she is very well known and also she stands out and even getting Kyron to come back out to the truck the possibility of being seen is very very high. She'd only need one person to see it.

If you wanted to do this why not do a John Walsh and go to a Target and try the same thing or a play date or something where fewer people knew her and would be able to speak about it.


The second sticking point is by now the police are involved and if DeDe did help her she'd give it up by now I am sure if Kyron was still alive. So that tells me that if she DID do it and she had someone's help it does not bode well.

Dede has known her for about 7 years now.

Last part, what about an attempt at suing the school for negligence. So she does this flat out for the money.

Perhaps the two women wanted to go off and raise the baby together as a couple?

Also I definitely think that Dede drove around with her cell phone. It would be easy enough to check to see if Dede's pings were identical to TH's.

she could lose him at the mall, but malls have those doors that shut automatically if a child is missing.

And they are loaded with security cameras.

In the city where I live by which is small, in another state, there are tons of security cameras all over the downtown.

Most people have no idea where they are.

Going to a place such as the school has such great possibilities, esp if one really knows the school.

 

[lynmaree]

One that has always bothered me is how Terri could know for certain that no one had seen Kyron come back to her car that day

I dont think she could know for certain but I do believe thats part of the reason she came up with the whole Dr appt scam...so she would have an excuse if someone approached while they were leaving...I also think she weighed the risk and decided it was worth it because the whole school negligence plan is how she was going to get money to disappear later...whether with or without DeDe who knows....

I also think DeDe may truly have believed or still does that K is in imminent danger and believes she is saving him and will go down as some kind of hero later

As far as him being buried at home...I think Terri may be just diabolical enough to have thought that, if her plan worked out, she wouldnt be under scrutiny so that may be the last place anyone would look...additionally, I think in her psychotic mind she may get a rush out of pulling one over on Kaine and knowing his baby was right there under his nose the whole time...

My heart wants to believe he is still alive and being hidden somewhere like a far off camp or rural remote cabin...most think its wishful thinking but until they find his body I will hold onto hope...he is absolutely magnetic and has captured my heart along with the rest of the country

 

[lynmaree]

One other thing thats really bugging me is the $350k she allegedly paid SH...is that amount confirmed and are we sure its really been paid? No one Terri knows or that we have heard of seems likely to have that kind of money at hand, including Kaine....Im extremely bothered by the notion that she may have possibly sold him...Im hoping Kaine is taking the money issue down legal avenues in the hopes of flushing out the source of the cash flow...


MODS: please feel free to move or delete if this is the improper thread for this...Im kind of new to posting :blushing:

Everything mentioned is nothing more than my own opinion

 

[cluciano63]

The payment is not confirmed...Kaine allegedly heard from a friend of Terri's or something like that, that this is what Terri said. It could be that is what Terri said it would cost her. We don't know if he has been paid at all yet. Or where money came from, maybe her parents put up their house and savings.

 

[Calliope]

Just curious about pets... the Hormans had a cat IIRC. Any other pets that we know of ?

 

[ThoughtFox]

The payment is not confirmed...Kaine allegedly heard from a friend of Terri's or something like that, that this is what Terri said. It could be that is what Terri said it would cost her. We don't know if he has been paid at all yet. Or where money came from, maybe her parents put up their house and savings.

Right - I think Kaine is wanting to know where she got the money and if she was planning to take it from a shared account or something. Maybe she is planning to cash out an investment or some property and he is heading her off at the pass.

 

[KeyboardCat]

Of those roads law enforcement believe that she traveled that day, any properties on those that she would be really familiar with?

I mean we've all heard that if a mother does this, he will be within five miles of his home, statistically speaking. I don't know how that would apply to a child she knows is not biologically hers.

But even the most detached serial killers will dump in areas they are sort of familiar with. I think that has more to do with how people like to do risky things in comfort zones. But anyway, if she really did do this, I don't see how it would be a place she isn't quite familiar with.

 

[passionflower]

Just curious about pets... the Hormans had a cat IIRC. Any other pets that we know of ?

Is there a certain place the family buried their pets on the property???
(thinkng of KC and her pets)

 

[passionflower]

thinking of scott p. watching the bay constantly...........
criminals put remains where they can see if anyone goes around them???

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This might be a pretty short thread but maybe some of the latenighters want to hash this out.

If the worst has happened and TH has disposed of Kyron, wouldn't there be more searching around the house? By looking at pictures of their home, it seems like there are many places to hide him out there. This has crossed my mind more than once. I think about Caylee Anthony and Abraham Shakespeare and how they were found just "right there".

Has anyone else been concerned about searching around Kyron's home?

They did do searches didn't they?

It is very common for the suspect to place the body of their victim in their comfort zone. Some experts that I have heard say it is about a 5 mile radius from where the victim went missing while I have heard detectives say it can be within a 20 mile radius.

If Terri Horman was as much of a CSI buff as has been touted about, then she would know that imo and she would take him way out of the area that was familiar where he is not in the immediate vicinity.

That is why I couldn't understand them searching around the school so many times and even returning or around their home. She knew these were the two places LE would search thoroughly and since he has not been found going on 8 weeks now I do not believe he is in the area of this community.

Her missing gap in her time line is about an hour and a half, right? So how many miles would she be able to travel in 45 minutes and then travel back taking 45 minutes to return?

JMO

 

[scandi]

They did do searches didn't they?

It is very common for the suspect to place the body of their victim in their comfort zone. Some experts that I have heard say it is about a 5 mile radius from where the victim went missing while I have heard detectives say it can be within a 20 mile radius.

If Terri Horman was as much of a CSI buff as has been touted about, then she would know that imo and she would take him way out of the area that was familiar where he is not in the immediate vicinity.

That is why I couldn't understand them searching around the school so many times and even returning or around their home. She knew these were the two places LE would search thoroughly and since he has not been found going on 8 weeks now I do not believe he is in the area of this community.

Her missing gap in her time line is about an hour and a half, right? So how many miles would she be able to travel in 45 minutes and then travel back taking 45 minutes to return?

JMO

Hi Ocean, Hmmmmmmm

Put that together with the fact that she went to the gym at 11:35 I believe till about 1 and don't think she would say that unless the alibi would be confirmed by the gym. That means her free 1 1/2 hours {or 2 1/2 hours as I read it} would have been before that. Time for her to drive around and find a place to tuck the body, go buy what she needed at Albertsons and get back to the gym.

Dede on the other hand left at 11:15 as Terri was obviously done and driving to the gym. It could be Dede stopped by the gym, or close to it, to talk with Terri, learn the scoop, take what Terri had bought that she would need and headed out to that location to bury Kyron.

By 1pm the deed was done by Dede and they must have had some communication as the odds of them both returning to their respective places, home for Terri and back at work by Dede, is just too astronomical to be COINKYDINK. Terri sitting at her computer between 1:15 and 1:35 at the same time Dede reappeared at work.

Sounds plausible to me. WOW, what diabolical planning that was if you think about it, so well thought out that it was accomplished like clockwork.

Then again I may have seen way too many 'mystery who done it'/CSI shows.


PS: I think we have to work off Dede's time gone from work to see how far away they drove to the spot where he is. Give Dede 15 min to get down the hill and over to the gym, 1/2 hour to dig a hole and put his body in it, that leaves 45 min driving time as I see it. That's about 20 to 25 min driving time each way.

How far could one go driving 35 mph, the normal speed on those roads? Say 25 miles away at the most?

Hey, that could put Dede over by Wilsonville or S Tualatin, eh? Maybe that is why Terri went to that Albertsons, on her way out to leave him there ~ Taking Hwy 26 to 217, off at Beav-Hillsdale Hwy, stop at Albertson's and down to Wilson HS, cutting down to Barbur Blvd, going up to the I-5 entrance and out to the spot close to Wilsonville. It sounds complicated on paper but is about a 1/2 hour drive - very simple if you know the roads. Back the same way and it would be hard to track where you had been.

xox Just :waitasec:

 

[Mamietwo]

I think she actually didnt think anyone would suspect herAfter all she left him at the school everyone seen him at school. I do think that she told Kyron tomeet her out at the truck, so he would be seen with out her. I think she didnt expect that anyone would look at her at all

This is exactly what I thought, too, exactly as you have it laid out above.

 

[palladore]

The easiest way for TH to dispose of Kyron’s body would be to pitch it over an embankment into a deep ravine. The area North/Northwest of Skyline is wooded, hilly terrain with thick, dense undergrowth. Pull up Google maps of Skyline and zoom in close: you will see there are dozens upon dozens of dirt roads leading off from the paved roads. I haven’t driven up around the Skyline/Cornelius Pass area, but I suspect that if I spent an afternoon scouting around, I could easily identify a handful of locations where I could park a truck, unnoticed, and dump a child’s body over the embankment. (Well, I couldn’t, because I’m a 105 lb weakling. But TH probably could. Although she no longer has a bodybuilders physique, she is probably still stronger than the average woman of her height.) The only tricky part would be making certain that the body didn’t get hung up trees or dead wood, and actually rolled all the way to the bottom of the ravine. I’m sure LE has quizzed KH about any areas the family went for picnics, walks, to pick blackberries, or whatever. So, yes, the body could easily be within 10 sq miles of the Harmon home, but, if so, it likely will remain hidden forever unless some tip leads LE search teams to a specific turn on a specific stretch of dirt road. We know that Terri had the white pickup truck on Thursday the 3rd so she could take Kyron’s science fair exhibit to school. She could easily have used the rest of the day to scout out a location for the body dump.

 

[bessie]

The easiest way for TH to dispose of Kyron’s body would be to pitch it over an embankment into a deep ravine. The area North/Northwest of Skyline is wooded, hilly terrain with thick, dense undergrowth. Pull up Google maps of Skyline and zoom in close: you will see there are dozens upon dozens of dirt roads leading off from the paved roads. I haven’t driven up around the Skyline/Cornelius Pass area, but I suspect that if I spent an afternoon scouting around, I could easily identify a handful of locations where I could park a truck, unnoticed, and dump a child’s body over the embankment. (Well, I couldn’t, because I’m a 105 lb weakling. But TH probably could. Although she no longer has a bodybuilders physique, she is probably still stronger than the average woman of her height.) The only tricky part would be making certain that the body didn’t get hung up trees or dead wood, and actually rolled all the way to the bottom of the ravine. I’m sure LE has quizzed KH about any areas the family went for picnics, walks, to pick blackberries, or whatever. So, yes, the body could easily be within 10 sq miles of the Harmon home, but, if so, it likely will remain hidden forever unless some tip leads LE search teams to a specific turn on a specific stretch of dirt road. We know that Terri had the white pickup truck on Thursday the 3rd so she could take Kyron’s science fair exhibit to school. She could easily have used the rest of the day to scout out a location for the body dump.

Nice first post, Palladore, and welcome to Websleuths. I really appreciate the input from locals who know the terrrain. Your idea makes a lot of sense to me. This might sound a little crazy, but I've always thought that would be the best way to dispose of a body.

 

[scandi]

The easiest way for TH to dispose of Kyron’s body would be to pitch it over an embankment into a deep ravine. The area North/Northwest of Skyline is wooded, hilly terrain with thick, dense undergrowth. Pull up Google maps of Skyline and zoom in close: you will see there are dozens upon dozens of dirt roads leading off from the paved roads. I haven’t driven up around the Skyline/Cornelius Pass area, but I suspect that if I spent an afternoon scouting around, I could easily identify a handful of locations where I could park a truck, unnoticed, and dump a child’s body over the embankment. (Well, I couldn’t, because I’m a 105 lb weakling. But TH probably could. Although she no longer has a bodybuilders physique, she is probably still stronger than the average woman of her height.) The only tricky part would be making certain that the body didn’t get hung up trees or dead wood, and actually rolled all the way to the bottom of the ravine. I’m sure LE has quizzed KH about any areas the family went for picnics, walks, to pick blackberries, or whatever. So, yes, the body could easily be within 10 sq miles of the Harmon home, but, if so, it likely will remain hidden forever unless some tip leads LE search teams to a specific turn on a specific stretch of dirt road. We know that Terri had the white pickup truck on Thursday the 3rd so she could take Kyron’s science fair exhibit to school. She could easily have used the rest of the day to scout out a location for the body dump.

Hi Palladore, Great to meet you and WELCOME to WS ;}

You are so right about the wooded terrain out there and I agree there could be many spots one could find that match your description of the terrain ~ even back behind the school where there are 300' dropoffs into gullies.

Being almost a lifetime resident here it seems most bodies found that are ditched in the woods are like 100' or so off a hwy or logging road. I think it might be that the perp is going to have to carry or drag a body a ways and still have it accessible by car. 100' seems to be the magic number.

It would still be hard work to heave a body over an embankment, like you say so it clears all the debris.

I don't know if a woman would choose an embankment scenario but rather the other and dragging the body as far off the road as one's strength would allow. Hiding it under a log and vegitation would be my guess. Digging in virgin ground could be a major task in itself.

Just thoughts - I have no idea where he was put but do appreciate your post. xox