Searching For Anna - #3

[Annasmom]

Annasmom,

Thank you for responding. It clears that question up for me.

I have been diligently reading everything on the forum. I have just finished reading the "Who was George Brody?" and the "BFH" threads and now have a multitude of other questions. I have jotted them down and am going to list them here.

It would be great if someone could answer them for me, at their leisure, of course, as there are many.

1. It was mentioned that GW was seeing a psychiatrist. Has this person ever been contacted to see if they would divulge any information on his/her dealings with GW, and especially if GW ever mentioned GB to this person?

2. On the GB thread, post #181, it was noted that there were rent receipts dated 7-7-66 through 1-10-67. Then there was another receipt dated 7-7-67 that was paid by Brody. Why was there a 6 month gap in those receipts?

3. On the GB thread, post #478, it says "M.M." and not what I thought would have been "M.K." Was Margaret's name by some chance Mary Margaret?

4. What happened to the remainder of GW's estate? Surely, he and GB had not completely gone through all of GW's money at the time of their respective deaths.

5. When and where did you first meet GB?

6. On the BFH thread, post #117, GW apparently signed for an insurance policy with a surname other than his own. I believe that this was one of the Lloyd's of London policies. Is it possible to check with Lloyd's to see if they have any record of this policy to see what name GW signed to this policy?

7. You said that GW had applied for conscientious objector status for the draft, but that this was denied. Do you recall when this application was made?

8. On the BFH thread (I forgot to write down the post number, sorry), you mentioned that you were going to place an advertisement of sorts into the San Francisco Chronicle to try and find out the true identity of GB. Did you ever do this?

9. On the BFH thread, post #484, on the 3rd letter that you attached, GB signed the letter as "Georg(i)e." This seems to be a very personal nickname, and one that would only be used when speaking to someone with whom he had a very close relationship. Just an observation on my part.

10. On the BFH thread, post #575, I am wondering if Yugoslavia might have certain requirements for obtaining a passport--in other words, would they have to list a sponsor in the foreign country to which they wish to travel, prior to their travel?

11. On the BFH thread, post #614, it is noted that GB originally wanted for Anna's name to be "Christiana Benedo Waters." Does this name "Benedo" mean anything to anyone? Has anyone investigated the name "George Benedo?" I find it interesting that he would have chosen such a "Christian" name as "Christiana," especially since you have stated that he was not a church-going type.

This is all that I have for right now. I am still trying to read through the rest of threads. I am getting ready to read through the theory threads to see what else I can come up with as far as questions or thoughts.

I will be back!

1. Re the psychiatrist: I know GW mentioned GB to the psychiatrist, because I was present when he did. The doctor dismissed GB’s “revelations” as something you might hear at any neighborhood bar. Medical records are confidential, so there is no possibility of getting these.
2. Re the rent receipts: Perhaps Sherlock, who patiently went through all these, can answer this.
3. MK used a number of names, and Mary Margaret is possible but doesn’t appear as such anywhere we have looked.
4. Re GW estate: It is curious that he seems to have retained so little from so many jobs. A fair sum was found in a safety deposit box we believe belonged to Brody, but it went unclaimed and was taken by the state (no known relatives.)
5. I first met GB when his friend MK was a patient of GW. This is discussed in some detail in the book Searching for Anna.
6. Re the Lloyd’s policy, as far as I know this was under GW’s own name.
7. Conscientious objector status: I believe this claim was made in 1966.
8. I did not place the advertisement after I found what it would cost.
9. Well, yes, just a cutesie kind of thing. Obviously it was a very close relationship.
10. I don’t know what policy is in Yugoslavia for obtaining a passport. It is a good question.
11. “Benedo” has no meaning except that it is formed from part of my surname. The “Christiana” was an effort to come close to the name I had chosen. No one has looked into the name George Benedo as far as I know.

Thank you again, Cleo, for helping us.

 

[KivaSupporter]

Annasmom,

10. On the BFH thread, post #575, I am wondering if Yugoslavia might have certain requirements for obtaining a passport--in other words, would they have to list a sponsor in the foreign country to which they wish to travel, prior to their travel?

Hi Cleo,

An American would need an American passport. I believe that at that time a Yugoslav visa was required to enter the country. It was a very simple and quick procedure. An American would need to list why they wanted to travel to the country, such as visiting friends, vacation, etc. No sponsors were necessary.

But, in addition, any foreigner had to report all the places where they were staying in the country and when they left the country. If they stayed at a hotel, hotel staff handled the reports for the hotel guests.

Hope this helps.

 

[cleo612]

Annasmom,

10. On the BFH thread, post #575, I am wondering if Yugoslavia might have certain requirements for obtaining a passport--in other words, would they have to list a sponsor in the foreign country to which they wish to travel, prior to their travel?

Hi Cleo,

An American would need an American passport. I believe that at that time a Yugoslav visa was required to enter the country. It was a very simple and quick procedure. An American would need to list why they wanted to travel to the country, such as visiting friends, vacation, etc. No sponsors were necessary.

But, in addition, any foreigner had to report all the places where they were staying in the country and when they left the country. If they stayed at a hotel, hotel staff handled the reports for the hotel guests.

Hope this helps.

Hi Kiva,

I think I must not have been very clear in the wording of my question.

I am wondering if a Yugoslavian native who is wishing to travel to the US would need to provide sponsorship information in order to obtain a passport from the Yugoslavian government.

I am sorry for the confusion. I was furiously trying to write out all of my questions and got ahead of myself without being more precise in my wording.

Thank you for any insight you might provide about this.

Cleo

 

[cleo612]

4. Re GW estate: It is curious that he seems to have retained so little from so many jobs. A fair sum was found in a safety deposit box we believe belonged to Brody, but it went unclaimed and was taken by the state (no known relatives.)

5. I first met GB when his friend MK was a patient of GW. This is discussed in some detail in the book Searching for Anna.

6. Re the Lloyd’s policy, as far as I know this was under GW’s own name.

8. I did not place the advertisement after I found what it would cost.

11. “Benedo” has no meaning except that it is formed from part of my surname. The “Christiana” was an effort to come close to the name I had chosen. No one has looked into the name George Benedo as far as I know.

Thank you again, Cleo, for helping us.

Hi Annasmom,

Thank you for answering these rather boring questions. I do have a few more now that I have read your responses.

4. I am wondering if anyone has checked to see if possibly GW's bank accounts are still being held by the bank that he used. Sometimes those accounts will sit unused, and even with inactivity, will remain open. There could be a tidy sum of money stashed in there for GW's family. Just a thought.

5. Do you recall when this was in relation to when you gave birth to your beloved Anna? I am just curious as to how long GB had been in the picture prior to her birth. It will help me to understand a little more the level of influence that GB had over GW at that stage in their relationship.

6. Has anyone tried to contact Lloyd's to see if that account was indeed in GW's name, and if he by chance signed the policy with a different surname as was intimated to in his writings? If not, this might be something that may provide another lead to GW's travels, and maybe even Anna's whereabouts.

8. I know that it is incorrect for me to make an assumption, but here goes anyway. I am assuming that you were planning to post an In Memorium ad, or even to place an ad on the obits page. Would it also be cost prohibitive to post an ad in the Lost & Found or even in the personals section of the Chronicle?

11. This middle name of Benedo must have meant something to GB for him to have suggested it--just as, I believe, Eifee did. Maybe this would be another name that should be looked into. Is this an accurate spelling as he requested the name should be?

Here is an additional question that occurred to me after I read through the Searching for Anna threads. I am very sorry that I neglected to write down a post number for reference, but hopefully, you will recall of whom I am referring.

You mentioned that shortly after Anna disappeared, there was a neighbor who moved away. You related that he had a rather untidy and unkempt property, and that he was not a very hospitable person.

Do you know if this man's property was ever searched (especially any searches involving the use of dogs), even after he had left the area? As I recall, nearly all of your neighbors assisted in searching for dear little Anna--did this man particpate in the searches?

I am still reading the threads, Annasmom, so please forgive me for not tossing out anything more than my incessant questions. I want to be as up-to-date as possible before I try to really figure out what might have happened with your beloved daughter. In my next post, you will see why I am somewhat reluctant to try and flesh out any theories at this point.

I am sending you the warmest of thoughts. I hope that your knowing that the people who are reading here DO care will bring some level of comfort to you.

Most sincerely,

Cleo

 

[cleo612]

Hi Annasmom,

On a somewhat more personal note, and to somewhat explain my reluctance to voice any theories on what might have happened with little Anna, I would like to share a little bit about my own experience, and maybe a little bit of insight into paranoid schizophrenia. I am not looking for attention or sympathy from anyone--I am just hoping that it might help some who read here to understand the unusual complexities of this tragic illness.

My father was a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic. He was of very high intelligence (he held a doctorate in two different areas) and was also very high functioning (he was a college professor for many years, and taught numerous subjects). He eventually spent numerous years institutionalized, but at one point he was released and was living on his own. His level of functioning had diminished to such a point that the only means of supporting himself was working as a bag boy in a grocery store. He eventually (also) committed suicide at the age of 49. (Interestingly, my sister was an undiagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who also committed suicide. That is another story in itself, that I won't go into here.)

Just as GW did, my father also alienated many people from his life--including many friends with whom he had been close for decades. This alienation stemmed from his overtly obsessive need to preach from the Bible. I see correlations to GW and GB in this behavior. GW was so enrapt with the "teachings" of GB, that anyone who didn't follow those teachings were shunned.

Mind you, during my youth, my father had always proclaimed himself to be an agnostic, so when this change came about, it was profound and overwhelming.

I recall many nights he and my step-mother would come to my home for coffee and my then husband and I would be subjected to hours and hours of his diatribes about various passages from the Bible. He would carry on incessantly for hours over a single passage. He would demand that everyone around him live exactly as he proscribed, based on his interpretation of each passage. Does this sound familiar? GB expected of GW the same type of following of the rules.

I remember going to my father's home and watching him as he travelled from room to room, reading from numerous Bibles that he would have laid open on the different tables around his house--all opened to a different page. There must have been 20-25 Bibles utilized in this manner.

Again, the similarities of repetitive and almost obsessive compulsiveness I have read here about GW's behavior--especially where it relates to writing down everything he was required to do, even to the extent that he felt the need to write out rather benign questions to ask prior to placing a phone call--remind me so vividly of my father's behavior while deep in the throes of his schizophrenia.

The one call GW made to an attorney asking about the potential for an increase in his child support payments comes to mind--paraphrased "I know you must pay your rent, so please bill me for this consultation." Most normal thinking people would not have to write this out as a reminder--it would come naturally. In fact, as I recall, he even crossed out part of it to switch around two or three words. I have no doubt in my mind that he read it directly from that paper when he spoke to the party at the other end.

The most valuable thing I learned about how to deal with his illness was told to me by a very kind doctor who was caring for my father. He told me that the schizophrenic mind has no logic. The thought processes are so confused that everything it produces results in "illogical logic."

On the face of those thoughts, what is verbalized might begin to start making sense to a normal thinking person. However, if you listen carefully, it is so twisted that one would almost need to be on a merry-go-round to find the true logic.

One example of this is when my father was released from the hospital, he was prescribed numerous medications that he was required to take in order to maintain stability in his thinking. Once he got out on his own, he felt that since he was feeling fine, he no longer needed to take the medication, which, of course, sent him on a crash course deep into his schizophrenia. If he felt fine, he didn't need the medication--illogical logic.

The irony is, there is nothing logical about illogical thinking.

This makes it extremely difficult to decipher and decode anything that the two Georges were doing in their lives. Their actions, their words, and their behaviors are all so illogical that it seems (and may be) impossible to know what they were truly doing, much less their reasons behind those actions.

It made perfect sense to them, but it may never make sense to anyone else.

The best that we can hope for is to pick apart each of the clues that these two very sick men left behind, in hopes that it will somehow, some way, bring your sweet Anna home to you.

 

[cleo612]

I am still reading through the threads--my heavens, there is just SO much information here.

Could someone please tell me if GB's name has been linked to MK's address? I mean, do we have anything that shows that the name GB ever resided at the same address as MK? I know that he DID live with her, but was it under the name of GB?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Annasmom]

I am still reading through the threads--my heavens, there is just SO much information here.

Could someone please tell me if GB's name has been linked to MK's address? I mean, do we have anything that shows that the name GB ever resided at the same address as MK? I know that he DID live with her, but was it under the name of GB?

Thank you in advance!

Cleo, you have posted an extraordinary personal story. I am touched by your being willing to tell us this. It does affect the way we look at the situation. Again, I'll answer your questions as I am able, though I need help from the others for some of them. We know that GB and MK lived together before she became ill, because Joe Ford actually interviewed their landlord, and I believe he or someone else went through San Francisco city directories and found other addresses for them. Doogie? Help!

 

[cleo612]

Cleo, you have posted an extraordinary personal story. I am touched by your being willing to tell us this. It does affect the way we look at the situation. Again, I'll answer your questions as I am able, though I need help from the others for some of them. We know that GB and MK lived together before she became ill, because Joe Ford actually interviewed their landlord, and I believe he or someone else went through San Francisco city directories and found other addresses for them. Doogie? Help!

If there were other addresses where it showed MK and GB living together, I am left to wonder now if there might have been other names associated with MK at any of those addresses.

Since we do not know when it was that GB began using that name, any other names that might have resided at the same place as MK could be potential leads as to GB's true identity.

 

[Cubby]

If there were other addresses where it showed MK and GB living together, I am left to wonder now if there might have been other names associated with MK at any of those addresses.

Since we do not know when it was that GB began using that name, so any other names that might have resided at the same place as MK could be potential leads as to GB's true identity.

Cleo,

This might help a little with narrowing looking back at the older threads and posts, especially with regards to GB. 'raf' was able to find some info on a GB in the Oakland and SF area dating back to, I believe the late 1930's or early 40's. Using the search feature within a thread for her sn and posts may help. I know there is much to look through here and a lot of reading to catch up on so I hope the above tip helps a little.

Cubby

 

[Dr. Doogie]

...We know that GB and MK lived together before she became ill, because Joe Ford actually interviewed their landlord, and I believe he or someone else went through San Francisco city directories and found other addresses for them. Doogie? Help!

I'll try. I know that Joe had found some references to them living together in SF (this was in a note in the BFH), but our further research has shown that some of what he found reflected the other George and Margaret Brody who lived in SF and were different people. However, we did find that they did live together at the Noe Street address before Margaret's death. And Brody did live (apparently alone) in the 1930's-1950's in Oakland at resident hotels.

 

[Annasmom]

Hi Annasmom,

Thank you for answering these rather boring questions. I do have a few more now that I have read your responses.

4. I am wondering if anyone has checked to see if possibly GW's bank accounts are still being held by the bank that he used. Sometimes those accounts will sit unused, and even with inactivity, will remain open. There could be a tidy sum of money stashed in there for GW's family. Just a thought.

5. Do you recall when this was in relation to when you gave birth to your beloved Anna? I am just curious as to how long GB had been in the picture prior to her birth. It will help me to understand a little more the level of influence that GB had over GW at that stage in their relationship.

6. Has anyone tried to contact Lloyd's to see if that account was indeed in GW's name, and if he by chance signed the policy with a different surname as was intimated to in his writings? If not, this might be something that may provide another lead to GW's travels, and maybe even Anna's whereabouts.

8. I know that it is incorrect for me to make an assumption, but here goes anyway. I am assuming that you were planning to post an In Memorium ad, or even to place an ad on the obits page. Would it also be cost prohibitive to post an ad in the Lost & Found or even in the personals section of the Chronicle?

11. This middle name of Benedo must have meant something to GB for him to have suggested it--just as, I believe, Eifee did. Maybe this would be another name that should be looked into. Is this an accurate spelling as he requested the name should be?

Here is an additional question that occurred to me after I read through the Searching for Anna threads. I am very sorry that I neglected to write down a post number for reference, but hopefully, you will recall of whom I am referring.

You mentioned that shortly after Anna disappeared, there was a neighbor who moved away. You related that he had a rather untidy and unkempt property, and that he was not a very hospitable person.

Do you know if this man's property was ever searched (especially any searches involving the use of dogs), even after he had left the area? As I recall, nearly all of your neighbors assisted in searching for dear little Anna--did this man particpate in the searches?

I am still reading the threads, Annasmom, so please forgive me for not tossing out anything more than my incessant questions. I want to be as up-to-date as possible before I try to really figure out what might have happened with your beloved daughter. In my next post, you will see why I am somewhat reluctant to try and flesh out any theories at this point.

I am sending you the warmest of thoughts. I hope that your knowing that the people who are reading here DO care will bring some level of comfort to you.

Most sincerely,

Cleo

Cleo, here goes:
4. Sherlock has the bank records his brother gave us, but since GW and I were divorced at the time of his death, I don't think I could get access to any other bank statements.
5. GW and GB met a little before I had Anna.
6. As I said, as far as I know all the Lloyd's business was in their own names.
8. Advertising in the Chronicle is indeed cost prohibitive. Sherlock did put an ad on Craigslist.
11. I really don't think there was any meaning to the names Benedo and Eifee other than they added up to a certain number, using GB's system of numerology (which, by the way, we have never been able to figure out.)

Regarding the "untidy and unkempt" neighbor, this is something I was not personally aware of at all until it came up in the forum. Apparently it was a transient who lived several miles down the road, and Joe Ford did search the property, but didn't come up with anything unusual. I don't know who this person was and never actually saw his shack myself.

Thanks again, Cleo, for your good questions.

 

[cleo612]

I found this picture on a website that posts photos of unknown people represented in old photographs. The ears looked very familiar to me. What is interesting is that it mentions locations of New Castle and Lawrenceville, PA. Maybe someone here could do a side by side comparison to GB (work such as that is not one of my fortes, I am sorry to say).

Could someone please take a look and see what you think?

Thanks!

http://www3.familyoldphotos.com/photo/pennsylvania/3309/unknown#comment-6504

Although I didn't get the same sense of "recognition" with this fellow, his ears also caught my eye. Interesting to note, he is also from the New Castle, PA area.

http://www3.familyoldphotos.com/photo/pennsylvania/1634/unknown-man

 

[cleo612]

Snipped for length. Welcome to WS cleo- well, I missread the year you joined, welcome to Annas forum. Those were some good questions and several I don't recall being asked, or reading about either here or in the book.

Cubby

Hi Cubby,

I meant to respond to this post and then got side-tracked with this most interesting mystery.

Thank you very kindly for the warm welcome to Anna's forum. I have been reading here at WS for a few years (I think I ran across WS back in 2005), but only decided to join while following the Stacy Peterson case.

I am deeply impressed by the manner in which Tricia runs this board.

I am even more impressed by the absolutely massive amount of compassion and assistance that has been shown on this, Anna's, forum. The outpouring of support to Anna's family is nothing less than astounding.

With the dedication of so many members, dogged perseverance in the face of such a daunting task, and an unyielding determination to find answers, I can only hope that we will soon see a heartwarming resolution to this family--where reunification of a family, and especially that of mother and daughter would be the richest of rewards for everyone's hard work.

I pray that this resolution shall come in the very near future--it is way past time for Annasmom to see the face of her lovely daughter.

 

[Cubby]

Thank you cleo. Those were nice compliments about how Tricia runs WS as well as your comments about the members here on Anna's forum. Another thing I would like to add as a compliment to Dr. Doogie, and others, especially Dr. Doogie is this forum, imo, is an excellent ( the best imo ) on how keep things organized, 'manage' a case so to speak..... I can't think of a single time we've really had a need for any mod's here, other than perhaps to edit a last name or two. I can't compliment Dr. Doogie and Sherlockjr enough for their example and direction.

:clap: :clap:

 

[Annasmom]

I found this picture on a website that posts photos of unknown people represented in old photographs. The ears looked very familiar to me. What is interesting is that it mentions locations of New Castle and Lawrenceville, PA. Maybe someone here could do a side by side comparison to GB (work such as that is not one of my fortes, I am sorry to say).

Could someone please take a look and see what you think?

Thanks!

http://www3.familyoldphotos.com/photo/pennsylvania/3309/unknown#comment-6504

Although I didn't get the same sense of "recognition" with this fellow, his ears also caught my eye. Interesting to note, he is also from the New Castle, PA area.

http://www3.familyoldphotos.com/photo/pennsylvania/1634/unknown-man

Cleo, I am impressed. There certainly is a resemblance in the first picture, and you are right about the ears in the second one. The reason I don't think the first one is Brody is the old-fashioned shirt collar, which would probably put this man a generation before Brody. Actually, I think probably both pictures are from the early part of the 20th century, possibly made around the time Brody was born.

 

[madge]

Re the San Francisco Chronicle, have you ever considered asking someone in their paper to come to the forum and look at the interest in your case and perhaps they might consider doing an article and giving the case some publicity without it costing anything.

 

[Annasmom]

Re the San Francisco Chronicle, have you ever considered asking someone in their paper to come to the forum and look at the interest in your case and perhaps they might consider doing an article and giving the case some publicity without it costing anything.

Madge, this is a good idea. Because the Chronicle (like many other newspapers) is downsizing every day, laying off staff and reducing the number of pages, we might stand a better chance of a story if I just write one, like the one they used a few years after Anna disappeared. If I do this, the "new" angle would have to be Websleuths, I think. Does anybody have time to count the number of threads, the number of posts on Anna, and maybe get a figure on how many members there are? I got these numbers when Doogie and I were working on the book, but of course they will be larger now. I'd appreciate the help.

 

[cleo612]

Madge, this is a good idea. Because the Chronicle (like many other newspapers) is downsizing every day, laying off staff and reducing the number of pages, we might stand a better chance of a story if I just write one, like the one they used a few years after Anna disappeared. If I do this, the "new" angle would have to be Websleuths, I think. Does anybody have time to count the number of threads, the number of posts on Anna, and maybe get a figure on how many members there are? I got these numbers when Doogie and I were working on the book, but of course they will be larger now. I'd appreciate the help.

Annasmom,

There are 40 threads and 7,895 posts on Anna's forum.

Do you want to know how many members are on WS or only on the forum? There are 17,023 members on WS.

I think trying to figure out all the members who are on Anna's forum would be difficult, as it would entail going through each and every post.

I hope that helps.

Cleo

 

[Annasmom]

Annasmom,

There are 40 threads and 7,895 posts on Anna's forum.

Do you want to know how many members are on WS or only on the forum? There are 17,023 members on WS.

I think trying to figure out all the members who are on Anna's forum would be difficult, as it would entail going through each and every post.

I hope that helps.

Cleo

Cleo,
You are amazing! Thank you. I'll get started right away.

 

[madge]

another idea would be to ask for donations to fund a full page ad in the paper (or even a half page ad). I'm not sure what it would cost but I'd be willing to be part of a donation fund.

Anna, are you working with any of the current elected officials in California. With all the bailout money being thrown out now who knows there might be something available for new investigation, etc. I'm frustrated with the local law enforcement efforts on your behalf.

Is there a National Cold Case organization I wonder.