The rub, though, is that some of their religious practices do violate the law. Underage marriage is against the law here. Polygamy is against the law here. The authorities have often turned a blind eye to these practices but I do not think they should have in the past and certainly hope they do not do so in the future. Why shouldn't this closed FLDS society, so openly contemptuous of so much of America and Americans as a whole, find another place where basic tenets of their religion are not illegal and where the surrounding society is more to their liking? I too love the reality that freedom to practice religion is a hallmark of US society as well as other freedoms, but, based on what I've read and heard over the past several months, it does not appear to me that freedom is a hallmark of FLDS society, in fact quite the opposite.
Sect to forbid underage marriage...
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The rub, though, is that some of their religious practices do violate the law. Underage marriage is against the law here. Polygamy is against the law here. The authorities have often turned a blind eye to these practices but I do not think they should have in the past and certainly hope they do not do so in the future. Why shouldn't this closed FLDS society, so openly contemptuous of so much of America and Americans as a whole, find another place where basic tenets of their religion are not illegal and where the surrounding society is more to their liking? I too love the reality that freedom to practice religion is a hallmark of US society as well as other freedoms, but, based on what I've read and heard over the past several months, it does not appear to me that freedom is a hallmark of FLDS society, in fact quite the opposite.
IslandGirl
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I do know that you have to get your GED even after it's all over with since the colleged don't accept Mommy High as the name of where you graduated from.
I also know that there are various levels of homeschooling here, from the real to the "yeah, right" kids who are out cutting up around town on their bikes throughout the day.
I also know that there are various levels of homeschooling here, from the real to the "yeah, right" kids who are out cutting up around town on their bikes throughout the day.
SewingDeb
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the "yeah, right" kids who are out cutting up around town on their bikes throughout the day.
Those are the ones I worry about, IslandGirl. Without any accountability or testing, who knows if they are really being educated or not.
Those are the ones I worry about, IslandGirl. Without any accountability or testing, who knows if they are really being educated or not.
Peculiar Petunia
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Homeschooling is a valid option for some cases, for example, a child with a peanut allergy. But in my opinion, giving a child an "education" that makes them unable to compete in college is condemning them to a lifetime of low earnings.
A good high school advisor can open the doors to a host of colleges for a student that a parent can't find on her own (I use "her" because the mother tends to be the teacher) without shorting the educational process.
Think about a freshman chem student who's never lit a Bunsen burner, or a pre-med student who's opted out of dissections. Even if a student gets into college, he or she is very limited in options regarding majors.
Will a doctor, an astronaut, a language scholar, an engineer, or a lab technician come from the FLDS children, especially the lost boys? I don't think so. And that is depriving our country and the children.
A good high school advisor can open the doors to a host of colleges for a student that a parent can't find on her own (I use "her" because the mother tends to be the teacher) without shorting the educational process.
Think about a freshman chem student who's never lit a Bunsen burner, or a pre-med student who's opted out of dissections. Even if a student gets into college, he or she is very limited in options regarding majors.
Will a doctor, an astronaut, a language scholar, an engineer, or a lab technician come from the FLDS children, especially the lost boys? I don't think so. And that is depriving our country and the children.
SewingDeb
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Peculiar Petunia, what you said really gets to the crux of the matter.
Will a doctor, an astronaut, a language scholar, an engineer, or a lab technician come from the FLDS children, especially the lost boys? I don't think so. And that is depriving our country and the children.
As far as the girls go, what choices do the FLDS give them other than marry young and produce one child after another? Those are wasted minds too.
Will a doctor, an astronaut, a language scholar, an engineer, or a lab technician come from the FLDS children, especially the lost boys? I don't think so. And that is depriving our country and the children.
As far as the girls go, what choices do the FLDS give them other than marry young and produce one child after another? Those are wasted minds too.
Peculiar Petunia
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SewingDeb, I agree with you about the girls, but at least they have a "home." I don't ever expect this cult to ever allow them a college option.
SewingDeb
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Petunia, you're right. The girls do have a home but that's about all they have. Those poor boys are in a really bad place when they are dumped with no money, no education and no where to live.
Yes, Petunia and SewingDeb and Details and yolorado!
The girls might have a roof over their heads, (which may be better than what the boys who are dumped on the streets have), but what kind of home is it? Forced into having sex with some nasty old pervert when the girls are barely teens. They have no choice in who they will love or 'marry'. The 'homes' are full of all of the other unfortunate, uneducated, terrorized young and old women who have also been forced to submit to sex with the same creepy old perv. They are locked in and imprisoned by armed guards. They have no freedom. Every person in America should be given the opportunity to choose for themselves the life they will live. The FLDS 'parents' deny their children the basics of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They are practicing slavery and sexual trafficking of minors against their own children.
I am not concerned with what they eat, what they wear, how they do their hair, etc. They are child abusers, plain and simple. Hiding behind the guise of freedom of religion (for grown child-molestor male cult leaders only!). Sexually abusing children is the worst crime in the world, in my opinion.
Any adult who has handed their own child to an old man to be sexually abused deserves to be prosecuted and imprisoned along with Warren Jeffs, their nasty disgusting leader. This cult is repulsive. Their practices of enslavement and sexual abuse are unconstitutional. It is wrong to deny another person (especially your own kids!) life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I hope they are prosecuted and the children freed to make their own choices.
The girls might have a roof over their heads, (which may be better than what the boys who are dumped on the streets have), but what kind of home is it? Forced into having sex with some nasty old pervert when the girls are barely teens. They have no choice in who they will love or 'marry'. The 'homes' are full of all of the other unfortunate, uneducated, terrorized young and old women who have also been forced to submit to sex with the same creepy old perv. They are locked in and imprisoned by armed guards. They have no freedom. Every person in America should be given the opportunity to choose for themselves the life they will live. The FLDS 'parents' deny their children the basics of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They are practicing slavery and sexual trafficking of minors against their own children.
I am not concerned with what they eat, what they wear, how they do their hair, etc. They are child abusers, plain and simple. Hiding behind the guise of freedom of religion (for grown child-molestor male cult leaders only!). Sexually abusing children is the worst crime in the world, in my opinion.
Any adult who has handed their own child to an old man to be sexually abused deserves to be prosecuted and imprisoned along with Warren Jeffs, their nasty disgusting leader. This cult is repulsive. Their practices of enslavement and sexual abuse are unconstitutional. It is wrong to deny another person (especially your own kids!) life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I hope they are prosecuted and the children freed to make their own choices.
Regarding the GED - that is not always the case - more and more universities are accepting portfolio's of the childs work including Ivy League schools ... also there are programs that have diplomas. Schools of "higher learning" are realizing that many (not all) homeschool students are MORE prepared to enter college than many (not all) traditionally schooled children.
Thank you, Deb. I don't think that anyone here would ever wish to restrict anyone's religious beliefs. It is the slavery and sexual abuse of children on such a massive scale which most people find repulsive about the FLDS. It just seems to me that they have tried to craft a system to enslave and assault their own children. I am not concerned at all with whatever their actual spiritual beliefs are; I just wish to see the women and children freed from the enslavement and sexual abuse.
Collectively - sure - as represented by the government we vote in. Individually - no - not below the minimum required to function in society. If a parent wants to raise an illiterate child, if a parent wants their child to learn nothing but football stats, if a parent wants their child to learn nothing but hate in a muslim madrassa, if a parent wants their child to learn nothing but the bible - no math, no history, no reading, no science - no, it is not OK for them to decide what the minimum standard is.
Oh - and about welfare and taxes - yeah, YFZ was not taking money from the government - aside from the government contracts that they appear to be using illegal child labor for - at least not directly. YFZ was the premiere FLDS site, to be supported on the backs - and welfare dollars - from all of the other FLDS members.
There appears to have been a decision, IMO, that FLDS wanted to give LE no excuse, no reason, no opportunity at all to see what they were doing behind their walls. They bought the land under false pretenses (a business resort, supposedly), and changed their practice used in every other location to avoid welfare and other gov't money that came with any string attached that might allow a welfare check on the children and women of the FLDS. Interesting, huh?
There appears to have been a decision, IMO, that FLDS wanted to give LE no excuse, no reason, no opportunity at all to see what they were doing behind their walls. They bought the land under false pretenses (a business resort, supposedly), and changed their practice used in every other location to avoid welfare and other gov't money that came with any string attached that might allow a welfare check on the children and women of the FLDS. Interesting, huh?
SewingDeb
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You and me both, Truly.