Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[Reannan]

My problem with the drowning story is that SG was said to have been discovered in an area 3 ft deep in water, but that she may have drowned in an area that was fifteen feet deep. Is there such a depression in the area? Maybe I'm mixed up...
Either way, it seems like SG would have caused an awful lot of noise, "running into the marsh," even if she wasn't screaming. Are there any witnesses in OB who have attested to hearing anything like this?

Exactly! I just can't see SG running quietly into that good night without making a hell of a noise! The assumption that she ran into the marsh, and got caught in mud, and then wiggled out of her jeans, only to continue running through the marsh until the was almost out on the road before falling into a random deep puddle of water is silly! She would have been screaming her head off while stuck in the mud for starters.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I just want to make sure I understand this part of the sequence of events: Shannan Gilbert ran into the marsh first and then took off her jeans? Not Shannan took off her jeans and then ran into the marsh?

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Also, has anybody thought about the Possibility of Shannan having received a Head Injury before she entered the marsh. GC did mention that Shannan's speech seemed to be impaired and that she was unsteady on her feet. Both could be symptoms of a head injury.

If Shannan had received a head injury before entering the marsh, the drowning scenario would seem more possible to me as there is a correlation between head injuries and drownings.

The following paper has some useful information regarding saltwater submersion and "wet drownings".

Drowning/Submersion Injury
Date: May 07, 2002
by: Kevin High, RN, MPH, EMT
http://woodriverfire.com/Call Review/DrowningSubmersionInjury.htm

 

[dc20015]

I just want to make sure I understand this part of the sequence of events: Shannan Gilbert ran into the marsh first and then took off her jeans? Not Shannan took off her jeans and then ran into the marsh?

Well, LE theory (at least publicly) is that the jeans came off while she was struggling through the mud. So, in reality, if they weren't forcibly removed from her or placed there later, they could have come off either way. However, what Dormer specifically put forth was that they may have come off as she struggled through the muck, not that she took them off.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

This website has a good description of Brain Injury types and concussion symptoms.

Brain Injury
Resource Center
Brain Injury Types
Copyright 1998 Head Injury Hotline
http://www.headinjury.com/tbitypes.htm

"Concussion Symptoms. Early symptoms of concussion include headache; dizziness or vertigo; lack of awareness of surroundings; and nausea and vomiting. Late symptoms of concussion include: persistent low-grade headache, lightheadedness, poor attention and concentration, memory dysfunction, difficulty doing simple math, difficulty finding words, slowed reaction time, fatiguability, irritability and low frustration threshold, intolerance of bright lights, difficulty focusing vision, intolerance of loud noises, occasional ringing in the ears, anxiety, depression, mood swings, and sleep disturbances."

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Does anyone remember a MSM article that talked about Shannan being roughly handled by JB? Any links?

 

[Lilmiss_cantbwrong]

Does anyone remember a MSM article that talked about Shannan being roughly handled by JB? Any links?

She was supposedly grabbed by the back of the head...
Sorry, I don't dig for links, I just put the info out there.

:rocker::rocker:

 

[dc20015]

Does anyone remember a MSM article that talked about Shannan being roughly handled by JB? Any links?

IIRC, in his 48 hours interview, Pak mentioned JB grabbing her from behind. He said he may have been intending to push her since he was supposedly trying to shoo her from the house, but instead grabbed her. But the question is does anyone believe Pak?

 

[dc20015]

Also, has anybody thought about the Possibility of Shannan having received a Head Injury before she entered the marsh. GC did mention that Shannan's speech seemed to be impaired and that she was unsteady on her feet. Both could be symptoms of a head injury.

If Shannan had received a head injury before entering the marsh, the drowning scenario would seem more possible to me as there is a correlation between head injuries and drownings.

The following paper has some useful information regarding saltwater submersion and "wet drownings".

Drowning/Submersion Injury
Date: May 07, 2002
by: Kevin High, RN, MPH, EMT
http://woodriverfire.com/Call Review/DrowningSubmersionInjury.htm

And if she had a head injury, which is possible and yes would make an accident explanation more likely, the question then becomes, did she injure herself falling down the stairs or was she attacked at the house? BTW, bad head injuries don't have to be obvious enough for someone to see them (for ex: Coletti when she ran to his house). Especially in the dark. My friend fractured her skull during a drunken fall and nobody noticed a problem until she had a small amount of blood in her ear upon waking in the morning. At any rate, I would assume the ME would be able to tell an accidental crack from a blow if a fracture is there...

 

[Dwntwnslim]

And if she had a head injury, which is possible and yes would make an accident explanation more likely, the question then becomes, did she injure herself falling down the stairs or was she attacked at the house? BTW, bad head injuries don't have to be obvious enough for someone to see them (for ex: Coletti when she ran to his house). Especially in the dark. My friend fractured her skull during a drunken fall and nobody noticed a problem until she had a small amount of blood in her ear upon waking in the morning. At any rate, I would assume the ME would be able to tell an accidental crack from a blow if a fracture is there...

Yes,sometimes people with head injuries don't present with any obvious signs of trauma. I'm reminded of the death of the actress Natasha Richardson. If I remember correctly, she experienced a small fall while skiing. She thought the fall was so insignificant that she resisted going to the hospital to have herself checked out. Of course she died as a result of the fall from a head injury. I believed her brain swelled.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Here is a link to an article where GC describes Shannan falling "half way down the stairs":

CBS New York
More Human Remains Found In Gilgo Beach Serial Killer Probe
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04...h-long-island-in-serial-killer-investigation/


Here is a link to a story where MP alleges that JB "grabbed" Shannan "from behind":

NJ.com
Jersey City prostitute still missing after 13 months of
searching
Published: Sunday, June 12, 2011
By Amy Brittain/The Star-Ledger
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Here is a better link on the different types of head injuries and their symptoms. Please note that not all head injuries involve a skull fracture.

MedicineNet.com
Head Injury
Causes, Symptoms, Diagnosis and Treatment
By Dr. Ben Wedro
http://www.medicinenet.com/head_injury/article.htm

 

[the quiet girl]

She was supposedly grabbed by the back of the head...
Sorry, I don't dig for links, I just put the info out there.

:rocker::rocker:

That is good to know for myself or anyone to gauge your information you just put out.

 

[dc20015]

Here is a better link on the different types of head injuries and their symptoms. Please note that not all head injuries involve a skull fracture.

MedicineNet.com
Head Injury
Causes, Symptoms, Diagnosis and Treatment
By Dr. Ben Wedro
http://www.medicinenet.com/head_injury/article.htm

True. If an injury were caused pre-stairfall through foul play, it could have not been a blow, but say by someone trying to choke her, the two of them struggling, and her head getting fiercely jostled around, rattling the brain, or by being banged into something with no fracture actually occurring. Or if she fell down the stairs and banged around a bit before stopping, the brain could've been shaken too without a fracture.

On another note, even though she could've just been wigging out because of a drug reaction or panic attack, she didn't fall down the steps until after she became frightened IIRC. So, my guess would be if she was acting what we in my field would call "neuro" because of a head injury, that may have explained her listlessness at Coletti's and her getting disoriented later on, but there was still something else going on at that house. Question is was it all in her head or not...

JMHO.

 

[En Passant]

I stated that March/April not flukeyou, he agreed. I don't live anywhere near the area, nor have I ever visited the area. I also made the other statement & Fluke You agreed. I don't understand you many people constantly throw him under the bus.

Also no one admits to the black drugged NYC street walker who was drugged & claimed she was going to be killed. She feared for her life.

I have heard there were threads here in reference to also confirming this. It was pretty gisturbing people wanted her name etc....Like WHY?????? Just a conformation is appropriate, why would any1 want someone in possible danger. Lots of responses from posters there were extremely concerning & upsetting....that is why it is NOT THERE ANYMORE.... that site clearly was deeply connected to a person of interest IMO. Because it was deflect & attack....than twist.

So I am saying leave FY alone. I am concerned he has people after him....as a lot of direct threats were made....& naturally Barn/Jim the site runners IMO were miss leading.....got close to family due to sight....But they didn't agree that Shannan belonged on it & felt she was connected to SK....now they made these posts ....I have them

 

[dc20015]

Another thing I just thought of: What about oxygen deprivation? If someone asphyxiates or suffocates a victim for a period of time...perhaps until they almost pass out or they pass out and come to, but they get away, can it not cause a change in behavior or even brain damage?

 

[En Passant]

Hi Flukeyou and :welcome4: ITA I know you know allot :detective: about the local goings on and wonder if you read the post about a tall short possible suspect who is not married? I've wanted to pick your brain forever LOL.

I guess there is no new Chief yet and am surprised they didn't get that organized before the Chief was suppose to retire. :what:

Also, have you heard anything about a SCPD officer who was put on a desk job years ago after there was an investigation and that person is now the head of either the Shannan Gilbert case or the LISK investigation?


PS: Gotta luv these new Smilies lease:

Fluke you....Hello, so glad you are here........I am going to try & mail u
March/April.........I do not trust any of those from the LISK......They are dangerous......& the Gavel comes down ;o)

 

[Dwntwnslim]

True. If an injury were caused pre-stairfall through foul play, it could have not been a blow, but say by someone trying to choke her, the two of them struggling, and her head getting fiercely jostled around, rattling the brain, or by being banged into something with no fracture actually occurring. Or if she fell down the stairs and banged around a bit before stopping, the brain could've been shaken too without a fracture.

On another note, even though she could've just been wigging out because of a drug reaction or panic attack, she didn't fall down the steps until after she became frightened IIRC. So, my guess would be if she was acting what we in my field would call "neuro" because of a head injury, that may have explained her listlessness at Coletti's and her getting disoriented later on, but there was still something else going on at that house. Question is was it all in her head or not...

JMHO.

Agreed.

 

[Lilmiss_cantbwrong]

IIRC, in his 48 hours interview, Pak mentioned JB grabbing her from behind. He said he may have been intending to push her since he was supposedly trying to shoo her from the house, but instead grabbed her. But the question is does anyone believe Pak?

I don't believe a SINGLE word out of his mouth!

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Another thing I just thought of: What about oxygen deprivation? If someone asphyxiates or suffocates a victim for a period of time...perhaps until they almost pass out or they pass out and come to, but they get away, can it not cause a change in behavior or even brain damage?

Yes. It's called Cerebral hypoxia.

Wikipedia.org
Cerebral hypoxia
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_hypoxia"]Cerebral hypoxia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

"Cerebral hypoxia refers to a reduced supply of oxygen to the brain. Cerebral anoxia refers to a complete lack of oxygen to the brain. There are four separate categories of cerebral hypoxia; in order of severity they are; diffuse cerebral hypoxia (DCH), focal cerebral ischemia, cerebral infarction, and global cerebral ischemia. Prolonged hypoxia induces neuronal cell death via apoptosis resulting in a hypoxic brain injury.[1][2]"