Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[dcgrumpy]

Okay, without being a ME or a forensic anthropolgist, we can exclude vultures, most wild canids (not sure about foxes there), jaguars (of the animal variety), lions, and other big cats on Long Island. Also bears appear unlikely from the start. That leaves us, given the area, with mostly smaller birds up to gull, rodents and of course domestic canids. Now, I agree., you could see their work in the tissue ... wait, what tissue? We talk skeletal remains here. So if there was ever any of, for example, y-shaped puncture, it is gone with the tissue. Rodents leave parallel furrows on bones, true. And expescially on the bones they take away and sometimes the neighboring bones. So probably the mssing bones have a lot of those marks ..., well, unless it was a gull, they leave no teeth marks at all and the don't rip like vultures do. But then, I can imagine, they found rodent teethmarks on the bones anyway. On the bones they found. Which probably proves the existence of rodents in the area. But of course, without the missing bones, it doesn't prove what took them ... so ... nice article and probably useful in a case in which you have more than only skeletal remains.

Peter

Also, the hyoid bone is the only "floating bone" in the human body. It's not attached to any other bones. So it would be the easiest bone for a small animal or bird to remove without a lot of damage to other bones.

ETA
Caylee Anthony's hyoid bone was never found either. Since it isn't attached to other bones I suspect it's common for it to be missing when a body is fully skeletonized. Of course I'm not sure if that's true. But it makes sense to me.

 

[LINative13]

Ospreys and hawks also cruise that area.

 

[Reannan]

Oak Beach is not Hell town. As a former long time summer resident I can tell you its a lovely community with part time and full time residents who are very close and enjoy the peace and beauty of the local landscape. We never even locked our doors. As far as animals, foxes, skunks, raccoons, opossums and of course lots of birds. The water does come in and flood the area that Shannon Gilbert was found in, and its also very very dense. To me it makes sense she could have gotten lost and ended up tragically dying in the marsh of causes unrelated to the LISK. Only time will tell of course, but to believe the OB community is some vast cult like community conspiring to keep the truth from being revealed is absolute rubbish!

Welcome to WS's Mrspatton!!! :welcome5: As a member of Websleuths, and someone who is strongly interested in - ok.... obsessed... with the LISK case, I always appreciate the input from locals and people who are familiar with the area. I have had a question for a long, long, time about how thick the brush was where SG went missing and through which she had to run to end up where she was found (IF that is what happened). Can you see a situation where SG lost her jeans, her purse and her cell phone, and yet still ran INTO the brush until she drowned? In other words, would losing her jeans not have caused her to run back the way she had come just because it was too hard to run farther into the brush? Thanks in advance for your answer...
P.S. I don't consider Oak Beach to be a Hell town, and I don't consider it to be full of an evil cabal that murdered SG.... I don't think most WS's members think that.

 

[WINDSOR]

Hi Windsor,

Can you please link up the first conviction of Pak? We need a link in order to accept this as true.

Thanks,

Salem

I am happy to.

here is the site url:http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214
here is the excerpt from the story.

Assistant U.S. Attorney J. Michael Worley said Pak accepted money to bring her into the country. Pak said in an interview that he accepted money to help the woman with her English and only learned about the passport problem shortly before boarding a flight with her from Sri Lanka to Zurich. By then, he said, he felt he couldn't get out of his agreement..........

.......... Pak, 41, had served six months in prison after pleading guilty in August 2004 to a federal charge of conspiracy to misuse a passport. He was arrested on May 11, 2004, at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport after flying from Zurich with a woman from China who had a U.S. passport in someone else's name, according to the indictment.


Now some sleuthers may not feel this was sex-trafficking, but I believe this a plea bargain case to a lesser offense.

 

[WINDSOR]

Okay, the can get MP for a misdemeanor. Now that would be some victory for justice. But at the point, they say one syllable about "tell us what happened that nigh" or even worse "did this and that person kill SG, we let you go if you tell us", the case goes down the gutter, and any connected case is in jeopardy from the start.

Peter

I happen to believe that in the end LE enforcement will do the right thing,( at least I hope) and I believe a misdemeanor charge is better than what anybody including the experts and LE has come up with.

MOO

 

[mrspatton]

Hi Reannan and thank you. The area Shannon was found in is a salt marsh and they are particularly dangerous to walk in, especially when a tide is coming in and I believe on the night of may 1 the tide was particularly high. Marshes are complex areas full of deep mud, clay, grasses and water. It is very easy to go in and lose your way because of the lack of landmarks, even more so in the dark. Its also easy to get cut off from where you were coming from by rising water. I believe she was heading towards the parkway and she may have been seeing the lights from there. As far as her purse, cel phone and pants, think of trying to make your way through deep quicksand like mud and water. You fall, you drop your purse and cant find it in the darkness and water...same with your phone. As far as her pants she may have removed them when they became heavy from water and sand, or she may have been trapped in mud and gotten out of them before proceeding towards the parkway. I am not sure how deep the water was that night, but I would imagine it was at least three feet in areas and perhaps more.

 

[WINDSOR]

<modsnip>, Pak was never conviced ot "sex trafficking".
<modsnip>.

And Al Capone was never convicted of being a Bootlegger, Murderer, or Extortionist.




No MP did plead guilty to to a passport issue and served time. How do you think sex trafficking goes on, with legitimate passports?

All I know is he was assisting a Chinese woman with a false passport enter the USA. She had no legitimate job waiting for her in America and he plead guilty. MP claims he was helping her for a fee with her English.

To me sex trafficking was the likely objective.

Truth do you have any proof to say the woman was not going in the sex trade?

MOO

 

[dcgrumpy]

And Al Capone was never convicted of being a Bootlegger, Murderer, or Extortionist.




No MP did plead guilty to to a passport issue and served time. How do you think sex trafficking goes on, with legitimate passports?

All I know is he was assisting a Chinese woman with a false passport enter the USA. She had no legitimate job waiting for her in America and he plead guilty. MP claims he was helping her for a fee with her English.

To me sex trafficking was the likely objective.

Truth do you have any proof to say the woman was not going in the sex trade?

MOO

The fact is he wasn't convicted of sex trafficking. That doesn't mean he didn't do it. But that is not what he was convicted of.

 

[Tugela]

And Al Capone was never convicted of being a Bootlegger, Murderer, or Extortionist.




No MP did plead guilty to to a passport issue and served time. How do you think sex trafficking goes on, with legitimate passports?

All I know is he was assisting a Chinese woman with a false passport enter the USA. She had no legitimate job waiting for her in America and he plead guilty. MP claims he was helping her for a fee with her English.

To me sex trafficking was the likely objective.

Truth do you have any proof to say the woman was not going in the sex trade?

MOO

Do you have any proof she was?

Btw, most human trafficking has nothing to do with sex, it is mostly about cheap labor or exploiting the desire of people from less developed countries to seek a better life.

 

[WINDSOR]

Truth,

I realize that you believe I am obsessed with MP in regards to SG's death, and you think I am reaching at straws to keep him as a POI.

At this point MP is the only individual who can be charged with a crime. There is absolutely no evidence that CPH or anybody else committed any crime. You may be right about CPH, and I tend to believe CPH is very much involved in some way.

But the LISK has proven himself very astute at controlling the evidence anybody has found, and if you are right that CPH is the LISK, he will continue to be very careful. All I am suggesting is that MP has committed a crime. he can be convicted of that crime, and that conviction may very well lead to evidence or information that will lead to convictions of others.

This case is like a puzzle, every piece is important, and it will not be solved until every piece is examined and put in place.

For some others of you that believe arresting MP is of little value, I would like you to come up with some thing in this two year old case that even hints of progress toward justice.

It is great to have theories, profiles, knowledge, but this is the real world. Traditionally cases this old do not get solved. I believe a jury trial for MP, maybe is the best we can ever hope for SG. It is not much, but it is something.

If LE mishandles it as Peter Brendt fears, it is on their conscience.

MOO

 

[Seaslug44]

Hi Reannan and thank you. The area Shannon was found in is a salt marsh and they are particularly dangerous to walk in, especially when a tide is coming in and I believe on the night of may 1 the tide was particularly high...

Interesting that you chose to call this a salt marsh and describe it as if tides rush in and out of there.

How long did you say you lived in Oak Beach?

Where are you claiming that this marsh connects with the bay for the tides to rush in?

I find your choice of words and description interesting because this is actually a
FRESHWATER swamp.

It even has a name: NYS DESIGNATED FRESHWATER WETLANDS #BW-8.

This can be confirmed by using the NYS Environmental Resource Mapper and zooming in on Oak Beach in the town of Babylon. Be sure to adjust the mapper's Layers & Legends to include designated Freshwater Wetlands once you zoom in to the swamp where SG was found.

 

[Salem]

I am happy to.

here is the site url:http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/gilbert-vanishing-reaches-one-year-mark-1.2849214
here is the excerpt from the story.

Assistant U.S. Attorney J. Michael Worley said Pak accepted money to bring her into the country. Pak said in an interview that he accepted money to help the woman with her English and only learned about the passport problem shortly before boarding a flight with her from Sri Lanka to Zurich. By then, he said, he felt he couldn't get out of his agreement..........

.......... Pak, 41, had served six months in prison after pleading guilty in August 2004 to a federal charge of conspiracy to misuse a passport. He was arrested on May 11, 2004, at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport after flying from Zurich with a woman from China who had a U.S. passport in someone else's name, according to the indictment.


Now some sleuthers may not feel this was sex-trafficking, but I believe this a plea bargain case to a lesser offense.

Thanks Windsor - you could be right, but let's call it what it is - misuse of a passport. If you then want to add that you think it was a plea deal, go ahead, just let everyone know that is your opinion.

And thanks so much for the follow up.

Salem

 

[MawMaw]

Could it be possible that SG left some of her personal belongings behind in MP's car when she went into JB's house, and when MP couldn't find her, he just tossed them out, and was later picked up by someone and thrown in the field? This has most likely been thought of and talked about before, but it has me wondering.

 

[Reannan]

Hi Reannan and thank you. The area Shannon was found in is a salt marsh and they are particularly dangerous to walk in, especially when a tide is coming in and I believe on the night of may 1 the tide was particularly high. Marshes are complex areas full of deep mud, clay, grasses and water. It is very easy to go in and lose your way because of the lack of landmarks, even more so in the dark. Its also easy to get cut off from where you were coming from by rising water. I believe she was heading towards the parkway and she may have been seeing the lights from there. As far as her purse, cel phone and pants, think of trying to make your way through deep quicksand like mud and water. You fall, you drop your purse and cant find it in the darkness and water...same with your phone. As far as her pants she may have removed them when they became heavy from water and sand, or she may have been trapped in mud and gotten out of them before proceeding towards the parkway. I am not sure how deep the water was that night, but I would imagine it was at least three feet in areas and perhaps more.

Thanks MrsPatton!! I have never been to Long Island, but I am very familiar with the beach areas along the South Carolina/Georgia coast, and I am very familiar with marsh areas. The ecosystem along the marsh is definitely dynamic, and every time I go over an intercoastal waterway bridge, I am in awe of how different the terrain can look from one hour to the next! That is one of the reasons I struggle with the idea that SG ran from the Oak Beach neighborhood into the marsh, and quickly lost her pants, yet kept running into an area that you would struggle to get through if you had heavy clothing designed for survival! Plus... she had to have lost her shoes! I don't see how anyone could run naked and barefoot through that kind of terrain - especially if the tide was coming in. :waitasec: I have tried many times to put myself inside of SG's terrified mind at that point, and every single scenario has me turning back towards the area I thought was solid ground. This case is SO frustrating!!!

 

[Peter Brendt]

Could it be possible that SG left some of her personal belongings behind in MP's car when she went into JB's house, and when MP couldn't find her, he just tossed them out, and was later picked up by someone and thrown in the field? This has most likely been thought of and talked about before, but it has me wondering.

Oh I would so love it. Or in Brewer's house, when she ran. Because this would mean, they felt they have to cover the story up and threw some stuff in the swamp to get rid of it. But, alas, I can't believe, we would be that lucky and get Brewer for covering up an accident.

Peter

 

[En Passant]

Thanks MrsPatton!! I have never been to Long Island, but I am very familiar with the beach areas along the South Carolina/Georgia coast, and I am very familiar with marsh areas. The ecosystem along the marsh is definitely dynamic, and every time I go over an intercoastal waterway bridge, I am in awe of how different the terrain can look from one hour to the next! That is one of the reasons I struggle with the idea that SG ran from the Oak Beach neighborhood into the marsh, and quickly lost her pants, yet kept running into an area that you would struggle to get through if you had heavy clothing designed for survival! Plus... she had to have lost her shoes! I don't see how anyone could run naked and barefoot through that kind of terrain - especially if the tide was coming in. :waitasec: I have tried many times to put myself inside of SG's terrified mind at that point, and every single scenario has me turning back towards the area I thought was solid ground. This case is SO frustrating!!!

Considering it was from 100 yards from where she was last seen. How can she lose her clothes & everything in an area, plus missing neck bones & finger....that just says she had some1's dna under her finger nails i bet (IMO). Now the neck bones......the LE needed to get there azzez out there & recover the rest of her remains. There should be search parties looking.....for the spinel bones....WTHell are they doing. This JB & MP need to know that this is not over & the LE will not stop till it is solved, Period. That sends a message to any want to be's as well........definately a crazy world we live in where rules apply to only the rich!!!!!!

I need the exterrestrials to get me the Heck out of this wacky place.....What do I need to do? Write symbols on my roof like Machu Picchu?????? I am dumbfounded!!!!What is this Stalog 13 "I Know NOTHING"

 

[Peter Brendt]

Truth,
For some others of you that believe arresting MP is of little value, I would like you to come up with some thing in this two year old case that even hints of progress toward justice.
MOO

I thought, I just did during the radio show ... only no beer bet for the websleuthers this time, but a look here bet for LE.

Peter

 

[mrspatton]

Interesting that you chose to call this a salt marsh and describe it as if tides rush in and out of there.

How long did you say you lived in Oak Beach?

Where are you claiming that this marsh connects with the bay for the tides to rush in?

I find your choice of words and description interesting because this is actually a
FRESHWATER swamp.

It even has a name: NYS DESIGNATED FRESHWATER WETLANDS #BW-8.

This can be confirmed by using the NYS Environmental Resource Mapper and zooming in on Oak Beach in the town of Babylon. Be sure to adjust the mapper's Layers & Legends to include designated Freshwater Wetlands once you zoom in to the swamp where SG was found.

You are not correct. In fact even using the map you provided you are off on the location of oak beach, which if you zoom in and use your layers you can see quite clearly that the area of oak beach is white (not wetlands), but areas of gilgo beach are green and to the east as well. Oak Island however is north of the parkway and is freshwater, perhaps that's why you are confused?

The tides do rise and fall here, and in fact that is why she was not seen from the air because it was flooded and the remains where found when the tide was unusually low.


How long have YOU lived in Oak Beach?

 

[En Passant]

Truth,

I realize that you believe I am obsessed with MP in regards to SG's death, and you think I am reaching at straws to keep him as a POI.

At this point MP is the only individual who can be charged with a crime. There is absolutely no evidence that CPH or anybody else committed any crime. You may be right about CPH, and I tend to believe CPH is very much involved in some way.

But the LISK has proven himself very astute at controlling the evidence anybody has found, and if you are right that CPH is the LISK, he will continue to be very careful. All I am suggesting is that MP has committed a crime. he can be convicted of that crime, and that conviction may very well lead to evidence or information that will lead to convictions of others.

This case is like a puzzle, every piece is important, and it will not be solved until every piece is examined and put in place.

For some others of you that believe arresting MP is of little value, I would like you to come up with some thing in this two year old case that even hints of progress toward justice.

It is great to have theories, profiles, knowledge, but this is the real world. Traditionally cases this old do not get solved. I believe a jury trial for MP, maybe is the best we can ever hope for SG. It is not much, but it is something.

If LE mishandles it as Peter Brendt fears, it is on their conscience.

MOO

IMO you are wrong again. MP only being able to be charged.
JB can be brought to court for wrongful death & hiring a prostitue.

Why would you even state that you are obssesed with MP & grasping for straws, that is pretty much projecting. Making statements like that IMO just says thats what you are doing. Why??? There are many lawsuits that can be applied. The circumstantial evidence alone has sent other criminals to death row with much less than what JB has on him IMO.

After that news clip with MG, these people need to be locked up & sent to Truths Gillotine IMO. They are going to pay as LADY JUSTICE PREVAILS IMO.

Swing low sweet chariot...coming for to carry them home.....That song comes to mind thinking of the evil premeditated events that JB methodically mapped out IMO.

It is so primitive the way LE allowed these clowns to be walking the streets. I would perfer going back to the dayz were they took criminals & hung them in the village square. That gets my vote currently....maybe we can write that in on our voting ballot!!!!! These LI polititians need to get there egocentric minds in gear or vote them the Hell out!!!!!!!! Thats my other Idea & Opinion

 

[mrspatton]

I looked again and see what you see, still I think the freshwater is north of the parkway where we go clamming. Either way fresh or salt...the tides effect the area. That is easy enough to find out by the news reports.