SIDEBAR #5- Arias/Alexander forum

[kpm]

I thought she said "insulated"...either way, a weird descriptor.

One interview she did say insulated....to Ryan Owens she said incubated....it's on GMA.

 

[jaijcook]

This is what we know....

1.) The jury has been focused on this case for 5 months.
2.) According to Juror 8, they are a tight-knit group.
3.) They have unanimously reached verdicts in all phases of the trial so far.
4.) Jury instructions were "inadvertently" left out of the instructions they received before deliberating.
5.) Shortly after receiving the omitted instructions, a juror question comes out asking what form they should use if they cannot come to an unanimous decision. This causes some major confusion :scared:
6.) The judge reiterates that both she and the lawyers are available to the jury, should they have any issues they cannot resolve.
7.) The jury never asks for further help.
8.)Jury eats through deliberations, even skipping smoke breaks.

So...why would this dedicated jury receive their final instructions, go back to deliberations for twenty minutes and throw in the towel?
If they were indeed deadlocked about something, why weren't further questions asked?

It just doesn't make a lick of sense, imo. This jury isn't hung and today is the day when Jodi will be sent to death row. :jail:

 

[The Farm]

Not sure if this is the right place to post. I had written a long post and since I have never posted before I hit post Reply above and lost it all. I am glad it happened because I was writing it on the story of the 12 yr. old boy who killed his 8 yr, old sister.
I am new to all this "sleuthing" and/or real crime stories. This is my first post.
I am a 43 yr. old women. A wife & mother to 7 & grandmother to 3 and 1 on the way. Yeah, that's a lot. Well, I am suffering from PTSD right now. I had PTSD after my first marriage of 4 yrs. My ex husband was abusive and I was able to get away with my 2 son's & my life when we went to a secret battered women's shelter. Years later I wrote to my now husband for several years and got to know him again as a friend. We knew each other as youth. We married in 93...20 years ago. He adopted my oldest son's and they became "our" son's. I had problems with PCOS and couldn't have anymore children. We decided to go into foster care(I was in school for social work)so after 5 yrs. of marriage we got our first foster child. She was 10 months old. We adopted her since her birth mother went to prison for 7 yrs. Well, the birth mother went to prison 1 month pregnant. She was shackled to the hospital bed when she gave birth to a baby boy that we ended up getting when he was 15 mo.'s old(we were suppose to get him at birth but didn't(long story)but we did want to have him at birth...sure would have been better for him. Anyway, we adopted him as well. We were foster parents for 12 years. We had 65 toddlers & babies...oh the stories I could tell...anyway, 5 years ago in 2008 we got a sib group that was 2 1/2(boy) 12mo.(girl) newborn(boy). We adopted them in 2010.
So this is how my family stands now.
Children: Boy-25, Boy-24, Girl-15, Boy-14, Boy-7, Girl-6(mentally 2 with problems & non verbal)Boy-5.
Grandchildren: Girl-4, Boy-2, Boy -1, Pregnant(not sure boy or girl) 2 children from oldest son 2 children from 2nd son.
Well, Our girl 15 & boy 14 have lots of problems. Jodi Arias reminds me of my daughter who is 15. In Sep. of last year her behavior was so bad we had her move into my husbands mother's home(no other children or adults, just them 2)that was such a hard decision but it was needed for all involved. We have a home that has 3 bedrooms upstairs & 3 bedrooms downstairs so when Girl-15 lived here she, Boy-14(then 13) and Boy-7 all had bedrooms downstairs. Then we moved her to Grandma's house and it was just Boy-14 & Boy -7 that had bedrooms downstairs. I noticed somethings not right and in Dec. 2012 talked with Boy-7 and he confided in me that boy -14 was hitting him AND he had raped & sodomized him. I woke my husband, it was late at night about bedtime when I felt I needed to talk to Boy-7 about things that just didn't add up in my mind as I laid there before bed. Well, anyway I had Boy-7 stay with me as i woke my husband and told him what I had just learned. My husband an I then helped Boy-7 to bed and assured him he was safe now. We had Boy-14 come up to talk. My husband is an attorney and I have been deposed in several cases with children we have had as foster children plus we have had many hours of training and we talk with Boy-14 and he admitted "some" of what Boy-7 said. Enough that we called the police and he was arrested that night...Dec. 12th. Then my Boy-7, my husband & I all went to the police station. Our oldest son't & their wives came to be at the house and care for our special needs daughter & 5 yr. old son. My husband had a trial he had to attend with the supreme court in the early morning so for part of the night her was there and then I was on my own from about 6 am until 4:30 pm. I was in the interrogation room with Boy-14. I was also with Boy-7 at the hospital when they did the sexual assault exam on him. Luckily I had talked with Boy-7 that night because a lot of the evidence would NOT have been there the next day according to the examiners. I felt like there was some sexual assault that happened to our daughter that was 5 at the time and non-verbal...she would be the "perfect" victim if you will because she can not speak and has mental retardation so she doesn't even understand if you were to ask her anything she would not just point to him or anything. Well, Boy-14 denied anything with her but he also denied anything with Boy-5 which after Voy-14 was in jail for about 4 or 5 days I think Boy's-7 &5 felt safe and it came out from both boys what he had done to Boy-5. Boy-14 had come up stairs and gotten him out of his bed and brought him down stairs on at least 2 occasions. Anyway. I am dealing with so many emotions right now. I have shut down several times. I know this sounds weird but I only started getting out of my own reality when I learned of the Travis Alexander murder. I really feel that getting to know Travis Alexander, his Family & Friends has helped save my life. Travis has truly inspired me. I recently got HLN. I have been trying to figure out Evil. I have joined different sites or forums or just read articles trying to sort all this out. I have seen the hate towards Arias' mother. There are very few who know Boy-14 is even in jail and even fewer who know why. My husbands family all know why. My sister(my best friend) and my mom know on my side, that is it. I have 4 brothers & 3 sisters and both parents alive. I am very ashamed. I am so glad my life is not posted out there like the family with the Boy-12 who killed his sister 8. I was going to write on that thread. Then I lost my post & refreshed and RIGHT THERE there is a women claiming to be the mother of these children's "friend" as she listens to this women's pain supports her and hugs her BUT says she want to know what she CAN say about her. Then you have another person saying,"you are a good friend" To me "good Friends" don't hug you and comfort you and then go on a forum and tell all your secrets. Anyway, I feel that this type of judgement keeps people from telling others. My sister & mother in laws first questions(both separate)were "why did you call the police?" Are you kidding me. I have night mare, I can't, sleep, I have flashbacks of what was said in that interrogation room. I have 3 children still at home that I have a tough time feeling I can be close with them. I am so sad. My son sets in jail and we go to court June 4th. I have not went to any of the courts. I have only visited him once and written once. I haven't left the house in 6 weeks. So that's my story. Maybe I am in the wrong place, I don't know. I do know there is not a place for those who have family that has done horrible things to other family members to go for support. I don't feel like I can get support anywhere. I'm sure many will judge me just from this post who don't even know me. None of this helps me with my PTSD. I really feel I am alone & have nowhere to turn.

Oh my goodness, I am so sorry and not here to judge you at all. I think there is a family section on this site. I do not know what to say except there are people here that will help and listen to you. And you are not alone.

 

[neesaki]

I honestly think it's Bobby Juarez, b/c it seems like a darker man. I don't know, could be DB though.

CKJA is the lowest of the low. The things she has outright lied about and completely fabricated just blow my mind. The one thing, the one thing, that she cares about is winning. Or at least, trying to convince herself and the world she didn't lose. Thus, her lack of genuine remorse for what she's done, because in her mind, if she did that she wouldn't have won. And to her, murdering Travis made her the "winner". :stormingmad:

That's also why she put off on her family, that they are the reason she changed her mind from wanting death to LWOP. That way she can say that she won, either way. If she gets death, that's what she really wanted. If she gets LWOP, that's what her family wanted, so that's still winning to her. She's just beyond belief, imo.

 

[EquallyDivided]

Tryingtoheal - I didn't quote your post for space reasons, but I would just like to say that I feel so sorry for your situation, and commend you for the love and support that you are giving to your children.

Yours is not an easy situation, and I can see that you are severely struggling. I do hope that you have been offered or are getting some sort of counseling for your own health, as you know, those babies need you and it's too easy to place blame on your shoulders. You need your strength for your children and they need you now more than ever.

God Bless you!

 

[Beyond Belief]

Oh my goodness, I am so sorry and not here to judge you at all. I think there is a family section on this site. I do not know what to say except there are people here that will help and listen to you. And you are not alone.

She's come to the right place. We just need a mod to put that post in right place. God Bless her. and I was down this morning because i have to deal with a flat tire. Geez.

 

[TryingtoHeal]

If someone could help direct me to the "Family" section on this website I would really appreciate it.

 

[neesaki]

My apology to you. But you'll see by some previous and subsequent posts that some believe it is, or would be, hilarious that the jury has or would eff around with the defendant for chits and giggles. In fact, I think juror 8 pretty much said that he did as much -- although maybe more directed at a witness than at the defendant.

Imo, that would be really offensive and scary behavior. Sentence her to life or death, but don't make a freaking joke out of it. jmo

I think we're just stressed out, worried, and venting Karmady. At least that's how it is with me. :seeya:

 

[Gin]

Found an article today about Perryville Women’s Prison, next stop for CKJA.
I liked that they mentioned they already have a recycling program and several book clubs. :wink: That won't matter much to JA, 'cause she's going to be a maximum security or death row inmate. She is going to be isolated for at least a few years, maybe more. She won't be allowed to chat with her new "buddies"...good.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/The-truth-behind-Jodi-Arias-grand-plans-for-prison-208611471.html

 

[ProtectOurKids]

Originally Posted by StephanieHartPI View Post
This sounds pretty clear to me:

Ladies and gentleman of the jury I have received your note indicating that you are unable to come to a unanimous decision. i have some suggestions to help your deliberations and not to force you to reach a verdict. I am merely trying to be responsive to your apparent need for help. I do no wish nor intend to force a verdict.

Here's another possibility

What if the supposed jury question/note published on azcentral.com is incorrect?

The reason I pose this possibility is because the judge did not address the question/note published on azcentral.com.

In other words, if the jury really did ask, "Should they write it on a jury-question form or just tell her", why did the judge not answer this question?

IIAC during the initial long reading of jury instructions on this phase, JSS read that the rules regarding "questions from the jury" should be written to her and she would address them IN WRITING asap.

That, to me, would mean that JSS alone would know the questions and respond in writing....not in open court.

So, when it was being announced by media heads that we were being called into the courtroom for a question from the jury I was like WTH, I thought we would not be privy to jury questions....only JSS would and she would address them in writing not in open court.

We saw JSS state the jury had indicated they were deadlocked. THIS could be from written notes and instructions between her and the jury PRIOR to her seeing that her answers in writing did not help and the jury was stuck on deadlock.

From my experience on jury duty, the instructions can be mind boggling. The fact that this question was brought forth so early on to JSS, could simply mean a need to understand the instructions. There would have not been time for a complete deadlock, unless a juror was like me in one civil case.....I stated upfront when I saw the others wanted to vote one way....I would stay until he// froze over, I was not changing my vote to theirs.

JMO and sorry if this has been answered, I am behind in my reading of overnight posts. Please correct me if my thinking is wrong.

 

[SCHMAE]

Was it the ABC interview that JA said she felt ' betrayed' by the jury ? I was thinking on that. What a weird thing to say ! Betrayal comes after you have an expectation of loyalty , like from family or a friend or an employee or something along that lines. Did she expect loyalty from the jury ? I would think almost ANY defendant would expect neutrality or even WORSE from a jury, but never loyalty. Shes' a weirdo .

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I agree, this is difficult to understand. I thought I had read the substantial and trying to interrupt JM's comments about in relation to the crime as meaning the mitigating factors need to somehow overcome (outweigh?) the aggravating.

I understood the fact that there is a mitigatory is not enough. Do you have a link to the jury instructions?

I'm following what you're thinking...was it described/defined as having to be "significantly substantial" or something similar? I agree it wasn't just that there was a mitigating factor, it had to have some oomph (LOL) to it.

 

[EquallyDivided]

Tryingtoheal- also - I have a friend whose 4 year old adopted son died recently, from starvation. This woman has 7 kids, 2 of which were adopted from a drug crazed woman.

I don't believe for a second that this friend starved her adopted son - although they were recently arrested after the ME report was released.

All this to say, several of her 'close friends' were feeding information to the media before the autopsy was even finished. There will always be a few attention seekers that will shock you. And the few are severely outnumbered by the genuine. In my situation, even a few church members that barely associated with her are now suddenly claiming direct insider knowledge.

Stay strong. It will happen and it will be depressing - turn to your supporters instead. Shame would be NOT saying something and trying to hide sexual abuse - as the majority do!

 

[Gin]

Was it the ABC interview that JA said she felt ' betrayed' by the jury ? I was thinking on that. What a weird thing to say ! Betrayal comes after you have an expectation of loyalty , like from family or a friend or an employee or something along that lines. Did she expect loyalty from the jury ? I would think almost ANY defendant would expect neutrality or even WORSE from a jury, but never loyalty. Shes' a weirdo .

When I read the "indignant sounding" loyalty complaint, I laughed. All I could think was Hey, Queen J, did we miss your coronation??

I am so ready for her to be delivered to prison. :jail:

 

[Anabelle]

Not sure if this is the right place to post. I had written a long post and since I have never posted before I hit post Reply above and lost it all. I am glad it happened because I was writing it on the story of the 12 yr. old boy who killed his 8 yr, old sister.
I am new to all this "sleuthing" and/or real crime stories. This is my first post.
I am a 43 yr. old women. A wife & mother to 7 & grandmother to 3 and 1 on the way. Yeah, that's a lot. Well, I am suffering from PTSD right now. I had PTSD after my first marriage of 4 yrs. My ex husband was abusive and I was able to get away with my 2 son's & my life when we went to a secret battered women's shelter. Years later I wrote to my now husband for several years and got to know him again as a friend. We knew each other as youth. We married in 93...20 years ago. He adopted my oldest son's and they became "our" son's. I had problems with PCOS and couldn't have anymore children. We decided to go into foster care(I was in school for social work)so after 5 yrs. of marriage we got our first foster child. She was 10 months old. We adopted her since her birth mother went to prison for 7 yrs. Well, the birth mother went to prison 1 month pregnant. She was shackled to the hospital bed when she gave birth to a baby boy that we ended up getting when he was 15 mo.'s old(we were suppose to get him at birth but didn't(long story)but we did want to have him at birth...sure would have been better for him. Anyway, we adopted him as well. We were foster parents for 12 years. We had 65 toddlers & babies...oh the stories I could tell...anyway, 5 years ago in 2008 we got a sib group that was 2 1/2(boy) 12mo.(girl) newborn(boy). We adopted them in 2010.
So this is how my family stands now.
Children: Boy-25, Boy-24, Girl-15, Boy-14, Boy-7, Girl-6(mentally 2 with problems & non verbal)Boy-5.
Grandchildren: Girl-4, Boy-2, Boy -1, Pregnant(not sure boy or girl) 2 children from oldest son 2 children from 2nd son.
Well, Our girl 15 & boy 14 have lots of problems. Jodi Arias reminds me of my daughter who is 15. In Sep. of last year her behavior was so bad we had her move into my husbands mother's home(no other children or adults, just them 2)that was such a hard decision but it was needed for all involved. We have a home that has 3 bedrooms upstairs & 3 bedrooms downstairs so when Girl-15 lived here she, Boy-14(then 13) and Boy-7 all had bedrooms downstairs. Then we moved her to Grandma's house and it was just Boy-14 & Boy -7 that had bedrooms downstairs. I noticed somethings not right and in Dec. 2012 talked with Boy-7 and he confided in me that boy -14 was hitting him AND he had raped & sodomized him. I woke my husband, it was late at night about bedtime when I felt I needed to talk to Boy-7 about things that just didn't add up in my mind as I laid there before bed. Well, anyway I had Boy-7 stay with me as i woke my husband and told him what I had just learned. My husband an I then helped Boy-7 to bed and assured him he was safe now. We had Boy-14 come up to talk. My husband is an attorney and I have been deposed in several cases with children we have had as foster children plus we have had many hours of training and we talk with Boy-14 and he admitted "some" of what Boy-7 said. Enough that we called the police and he was arrested that night...Dec. 12th. Then my Boy-7, my husband & I all went to the police station. Our oldest son't & their wives came to be at the house and care for our special needs daughter & 5 yr. old son. My husband had a trial he had to attend with the supreme court in the early morning so for part of the night her was there and then I was on my own from about 6 am until 4:30 pm. I was in the interrogation room with Boy-14. I was also with Boy-7 at the hospital when they did the sexual assault exam on him. Luckily I had talked with Boy-7 that night because a lot of the evidence would NOT have been there the next day according to the examiners. I felt like there was some sexual assault that happened to our daughter that was 5 at the time and non-verbal...she would be the "perfect" victim if you will because she can not speak and has mental retardation so she doesn't even understand if you were to ask her anything she would not just point to him or anything. Well, Boy-14 denied anything with her but he also denied anything with Boy-5 which after Voy-14 was in jail for about 4 or 5 days I think Boy's-7 &5 felt safe and it came out from both boys what he had done to Boy-5. Boy-14 had come up stairs and gotten him out of his bed and brought him down stairs on at least 2 occasions. Anyway. I am dealing with so many emotions right now. I have shut down several times. I know this sounds weird but I only started getting out of my own reality when I learned of the Travis Alexander murder. I really feel that getting to know Travis Alexander, his Family & Friends has helped save my life. Travis has truly inspired me. I recently got HLN. I have been trying to figure out Evil. I have joined different sites or forums or just read articles trying to sort all this out. I have seen the hate towards Arias' mother. There are very few who know Boy-14 is even in jail and even fewer who know why. My husbands family all know why. My sister(my best friend) and my mom know on my side, that is it. I have 4 brothers & 3 sisters and both parents alive. I am very ashamed. I am so glad my life is not posted out there like the family with the Boy-12 who killed his sister 8. I was going to write on that thread. Then I lost my post & refreshed and RIGHT THERE there is a women claiming to be the mother of these children's "friend" as she listens to this women's pain supports her and hugs her BUT says she want to know what she CAN say about her. Then you have another person saying,"you are a good friend" To me "good Friends" don't hug you and comfort you and then go on a forum and tell all your secrets. Anyway, I feel that this type of judgement keeps people from telling others. My sister & mother in laws first questions(both separate)were "why did you call the police?" Are you kidding me. I have night mare, I can't, sleep, I have flashbacks of what was said in that interrogation room. I have 3 children still at home that I have a tough time feeling I can be close with them. I am so sad. My son sets in jail and we go to court June 4th. I have not went to any of the courts. I have only visited him once and written once. I haven't left the house in 6 weeks. So that's my story. Maybe I am in the wrong place, I don't know. I do know there is not a place for those who have family that has done horrible things to other family members to go for support. I don't feel like I can get support anywhere. I'm sure many will judge me just from this post who don't even know me. None of this helps me with my PTSD. I really feel I am alone & have nowhere to turn.

Please don't feel alone. What you did was to try to help your son. Ignoring things like this helps nobody and I hope things get resolved for you xx

 

[neesaki]

I agree that the instructions themselves could have been what they were going over and they may have asked about the procedures in case they cannot decide.

I used to have trouble understanding how coming to a concensus seems to go against individual decisions, but someone explained it well for me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having your mind changed as other jurors explain their own reasoning to you. I would think it would be easier to convince people to go down to Life though, rather than trying to convince people to go with DP. But it all depends on how many are going for which type.

What is really weird to me is letting the judge decide whether Life is either LWOP or LWP. Why not let the jury decide that too.

I'm thinking now, that the reason they asked this question is because they weren't required to come to a consensus in the first phase, just that she was guilty of either premeditated or felony murder. They all agreed on the premeditated, and it was 7 and 5 on the felony. I think or at least hope, they were only asking for clarification that this phase does indeed require a consensus. I personally could see how that could be confusing.

 

[mollyf]

My daughter is going to college now for Graphic Design at Indiana University but is planning on heading out to California to study at FIDM. Worried she is going to have a hard time finding work unless it's in large cities? Thanks for the information!

There is plenty of work for graphic designers. Look around the room, wherever you are. Everything in your field of view right now was touched by a graphic designer at some point in its conception, creation/publication and promotion. Really good, talented designers are in demand. Mediocre, skilled designers are in demand. I've been a graphic designer since 1982.

FIDM is an excellent school. I've worked with many alumni and they are busy!

 

[Ricki]

If someone could help direct me to the "Family" section on this website I would really appreciate it.

We have a Jury Room. It is private, meaning you have to be a member to read or post there. I do not see a "family forum" unless I have missed it.
Here is the link to the Jury Room. Check it out and see if you would feel comfortable starting your own thread. Our members are really good at supporting, comforting and giving advice.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=25

 

[Mare10]

Good Morning Everyone! I'm off today and will be here with you all, holding hands. I prayed a lot last night for a verdict. I would like the DP but I could not pray for that. I did pray for a verdict and asked for the end of this current nightmare for the Alexander Family. They should not suffer another day at the CK's hands. I prayed for the juror's as well, to make a decision and not to have this hung. I also prayed that they can live with whatever verdict they decide.

 

[Arabian Girl]

I'm following what you're thinking...was it described/defined as having to be "significantly substantial" or something similar? I agree it wasn't just that there was a mitigating factor, it had to have some oomph (LOL) to it.

I'm going back to watch the whole mitigation phase again...except for Stabby!!! I wish there was a 'barf' emocon!

In addition to actually having some significance, JM talked about a mitagator having some relation to the the crime...not sure on that either.

Perhaps I'll have a solid understanding sometime before she gets the night-night needle!

lease: :scared: :facepalm: