SIDEBAR #57 - Travis Alexander forum

[YESorNO]

Don't judge people by their age.

The banker saw his old friend Tom, an eighty-year old rancher, in town.

Tom had lost his wife a year or so before and rumor had it that he was
marrying a 'mail order' bride. Being a good friend, the banker
asked Tom if the rumor was true.
Tom assured him that it was.
The banker then asked Tom the age of his new bride to be.

Tom proudly said, 'She'll be twenty-one in November.'
Now the banker, being the wise man that he was, could
see that the sexual appetite of a young woman could not be satisfied
by an eighty-year- old man.

Wanting his old friend's remaining years to be happy the
banker tactfully suggested that Tom should consider
getting a hired hand to help him out on the ranch, knowing nature
would take its own course.

Tom thought this was a good idea and said he would look for
one that afternoon.

About four months later, the banker ran into Tom in town again.

'How's the new wife?', asked the banker.
Tom proudly said, 'Good - she's pregnant.'

The banker, happy that his sage advice had worked out,
continued, 'And how's the hired hand?'

Without hesitating, Tom said, 'She's pregnant too.' :facepalm:

Don't ever underestimate old guys !
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Link: https://media.yourdailydish.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/BACP_WalkPark.jpg
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[Mollyandme]

Morning everyone! So nice to be back here after my hiatus due to moving back to the east coast, appendicitis, and real life stuff, etc. we also brought all our xmas decorations up from the basement last night, my kids are all 4 and under so they are very excited!

It's pretty cloudy here today but we will be decorating and watching college football, first Ohio state vs Michigan (husband is a big time Ohio state fan) and then my Nittany lions at 3 30, which will prob be almost as painful to watch as my beloved Eagles, but supporting the team, especially student athletes is important to me. Then once the kids are sleeping I'm catching up on "the affair," which I really like!

The area I live is a pretty populated suburb with lots of good shopping and the roads are still gridlocked so I will not be leaving the house today. My mom and sister want to go to the huge mall near us today to return something they got yesterday and I told them they are insane! Big crowds, jam packed parking lots, and traffic everywhere is not my idea of a nice Saturday.

 

[Zuri]

In my post #27, Real Story: Travis was talking to CMJA on the phone, NOT Travis was talking to Travis on the phone. Sorry for the error. I couldn't go back and edit it.

 

[YESorNO]

Trapped with Ms. Arias

Chapter 18

Learning more about Mr. Alexander

L "looked upon " TA "with sadness, not just because of how he died but because of how he lived"

L believed that TA was "a slave to his image", "never being what he wanted to be"

To L, TA cared much about what others thought of him

- to appear he was doing well financially (he was not)
-Ta hosted fight night parties, etc.- "demonstrated wealth"

L was sad about TA's "morals and his spiritual beliefs...could tell that he was not truly living in the way he wanted to live"

-L could tell "looks at a person's behavior to assess the kind of person they are"

-L gives example

-states that TA didn't "act like he wanted to be a Mormon"

-Ta was "highly motivated by sex" (evidence- "communications and conduct not only with Ms. Arias but with other women as well")

-normal for others- "but are obviously well outside the norm if someone is of the Mormon faith"

L felt that if TA shared his feelings ( actions showed he wanted to live "a less restrictive more normal sexual existence") with friends, he "would lose their love and friendship"

L states could be wrong - if TA truly wanted to be member of LDS Church- "think about the guilt and shame he must haved lived with. To me living with such guilt and/or shame would be a very sad way to live" (pg. 99)
===========================================================

Chapter 19

Ms. Arias' Jail Calls

phone calls in Maricopa jail can only be 12 min long before another call can be made

during phone calls, defendants can say things that are detrimental to their case

defendants are warned by their attys not to talk to others about their case- can be used against them in court

some defendants think they are "smarter than their attorneys"... they do not listen to this advice"

L gives this advice to all clients

in non-death cases, L doesn't normally care about client's calls- in DP case everything important- always listens to calls- "not much of a burden" to listen

normally not many calls- expensive

the murderer had lots of calls- she would call friends, family, call others to ask why people were not picking up her calls- calls several X day and daily basis

L amazed at all the calls- people who received her calls had to pay for them "and they were typically pointless" calls

L stated was obligated to listen to calls- JM would be listening too and use calls for his case for death

L states he "had a self-destructive client who thought she was smarter than anyone. So I assumed that she would try and pull something off during one of these calls, something that she thought might help her case" (pg. 101)

State could use tapes at trial without advance notice

murderer did not talk about trial too much on calls but, "she said so many other damaging things that I was sure that the State would bring them up during sentencing because these calls did not portray Ms. Arias in a good light" (pg. 102)

- she would yell, act "mean-spirited" at mother, call her "stupid and/or guilt her into sending her money because she was starving"- not sending her money/book fast
murderer did not care if mother had money- she would even tell mother how to budget money so had enough to send to her and to ignore her father if he objected-
"...she had the unmitigated gall to give canteen items to other inmates and thus ask her mother for more money. It was pretty repulsive to listen to.." (pg. 102)

L wanted Sandy to hang up on the murderer "..to my recollection she only did once"- never stood up to the murderer

L was amazed at arrogance and narcissism of the murderer

"Sandy was the parent but she never seemed to act like it at all"

L not "reading too much into it because Sandy.....was empathetic to her daughter's situation"

phone calls gave L "insight" into the murderer's relationship with people

the murderer "degraded her mother and to others" , ordered her siblings around "acting superior to them even though she was in jail"

L felt that the murderer thought world owed her something, very angry with mother (for what ??)

"To me this was something I saw a fair amount of time in former clients who had been sexually abused. Thus, to me it was more evidence that Ms. Arias was mad at her mother for not caring enough to stop the abuse, more evidence that she was mad at her mother for not protecting her from the person sexually abusing her as a child." (pg. 103)

the murderer was "kind and respectful" to father, but conversations very cold- did not talk often

seemed to L that parents only talked to murderer "out of obligation to the other because of the biological link they shared"

murderer manipulated mother- indirectly, talking bad of the father- or asking her to do things behind her father's back "because he was such a 'jerk' "

father did not like that mother sent the murderer so much money

L thought that money was "a big deal" to murderer

L talks about her "fan base"- began after 48 Hours show- she received "a ton of mail"

categories of mail:

-biggest- men who wanted to have sex with her "Men who believed that once Ms. Arias was set free that she would come running into their arms and eventually into their beds"- L called them "suitors"

- "a general assortment of weird people" (one woman shared her whole sexual history)

to the murderer, fans were potential cash cows/ do things for her- she dedicated more time to "suitors"- thought they would generate more money for her

L listened carefully to calls from "suitors" for "shenanigans"- never heard any- "assumes" JM never heard any either because he didn't use calls in court

L "recalls" a suitor - lived in Missouri- worked on farm- around 60 years old - he was "thrilled" she called him "This man would tell her how he had a room for her once she got out of jail"

L said he had sexual interest in her "and she knew it"- would "feign interest in him and without fail he would eventually ask .. if she needed anything"- she pretended she was OK-she made it feel as if she "was practically doing him a favor by allowing him to send her money...or..book. In this regard, she was amazing" (pg. 104) L said it was "so pathetic"

L said she had plenty of "suitors" and money to buy things from the jail "canteen"

L amazed that State never used calls in third phase of trial- may never know- he would have- "there never a time when I thought Ms. Arias was deserving of the death penalty more than when I listened to her on theses calls" (pg. 105) and L against DP under "any circumstance"- said the murderer "sounded like a monster...[ she was] truly sickening to me"

talks about friend Donovan- came to trial almost every day- murderer often called her

-served as a "quasi-spokesperson"- they met in jail when housed together, not life-long friends

- the murderer manipulated her into her personal assistant on outside

- this made the murderer seem, to L, "like a very scary person in her ability to manipulate others"

L thought if jurors heard calls, they would despise her- for crime and personal too

"If I was the prosecutor on the case, I would have had Dr Demarte refer to these calls as examples that supported her diagnosis as doing so would have been a way to illustrate to the jury, perhaps without saying so, that Ms. Arias was a monster whose life needed to end. Fortunately for Ms. Arias, that never happened." (pg. 105)
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Chapter 20

Ms. Arias' "Ninja Story"

seemed like a "bull**** story" to L, but back then, couldn't prove it was a "bull**** story"

if that was the murderer's story , he had to work with it at the time

L didn't know when she was going to change the story- couldn't hold up case- had to prepare a case

had to have murderer talk to experts anyway even with that story to see what they said

"I had to try to minimize the damage that my client was doing to her own case...If..story was going to change...admit the 'ninja story' was not true.....the sooner the better."

L states, to him, what happened on 6/4/2008 did not include ninjas "or any other person for that matter"

L did not "vocalize these beliefs" to the murderer and did not "assert to her that I believed her 'ninja story' .....over time she began to sense that I did not believe this story"- she came, in time, to telling him different story

"If she got up on the stand and told the 'ninja story' she would be found guilty of First Degree Murder and she would be sentenced to death" (pg. 108)

L felt that the murderer believed that others would accept the "ninja story"- she could convince the jury that it was true

L had to show her that "real people" would not accept her story, but couldn't disclose confidential material to them

L did not need to have her permission to disclose evidence already in public

with help of Mit Spec, showed class of undergrads CBS docu- gave them questionnaire- did they believe the "ninja story"?- no one believed it

after- the murderer told story of self-defense- "ninja story" now dead

L didn't believe the self defense story either- "You may notice ....Ms. Arias' revised version of events I have been using the word 'story' "

had she revised her story sooner, before Samuels' meeting, he wouldn't have been attacked on stand

always possibility that she wouldn't have changed story- needed to have her evaluated

" ...I was trying to save Ms. Arias' life, yet at the same time she was trying to make it harder for me to do my job" (pg. 109)
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Next:

Chapter 21
The Murder Weapons

Chapter 22
Ms. Arias' Supposed Guilt Phase Witnesses
===============================================================

 

[Zuri]

Continued:
Sky felt that Travis was still in love with Deanna and could not commit to CMJA the way she wanted. According to Darryl Brewer's testimony, there was never a break up conversation with CMJA and he thought that CMJA would come up to Monterey where he had moved in December after the house was sold. He understood that CMJA no longer wanted an intimate relationship with him due to her Mormon faith. CMJA was playing both sides of the fence, keeping Darryl in the picture and being intimate with Travis, hoping he would commit to her. CMJA had to figure out where she was going to live. CMJA made a massive gamble on Travis, giving up her life with Darryl And it didn't pay off as Travis ended up rejecting her.

Sky wondered if that is what ultimately caused her to break; that Travis would tell everyone in PPL just what a monster she was and her true character. If he was dead, all the lies and truth died with him. Sky then takes the emails and adds perspective/details/breaks them down. She said that since CMJA and Travis were not in a committed relationship that she should date other people. CMJA twisted that and told Travis that the Hughes wanted her to dump Travis.

Travis had been unaware of the things CMJA complained to the Hughes about and tried to rectify them. He said that since CMJA mostly worked nights, their conversations were often late at night when she got off work. CMJA had complained that Travis never called her during the day. Travis wasn't going to call her while she was at work and not able to talk, but she wanted to know that he was thinking of her all day and to call anyway. CMJA had twisted things so badly from the conversation she had with the Hughes and then played the victim to Travis, crying. Travis was upset that the Hughes had made CMJA cry as he had never heard her cry.

CMJA continued to confide in the Hughes, even after this email debacle. She wanted Travis to commit and ask her to move to Mesa. Never once did she mention that Travis was mean to her or abuse her. She wanted to marry Travis and would tell Travis that Hughes kept bringing up Deanna in her conversations with them, when in fact it was CMJA that kept bringing up Deanna.

The Hughes felt an obligation to b nice to CMJA as she was a member of the LDS Church and Travis' friend, but they had a gut feeling that she was evil. Sky saw that she was deceptive, conniving, manipulative and controlling and was very uneasy around her. Sky chalked it up to immaturity and being emotionally underdeveloped, but even that didn't make sense as CMJA had lived with Darryl for 4 years and essentially been a stepmother to his son. They were seeing CMJA for what she was and Travis was blind to all of it. CMJA was intent on driving. Wedge between the Hughes and Travis.

Sky gives the example of when CMJA was at a training meeting that they all attended one night in San Bernardino. Sky and her friend Hollie were at the end of a long hall at the registration table. Right next door was another meeting held by a research company. It consiste of random men, not well dressed, being paid $20 to attend. The door was open and CMJA proceeded to walk the hallway back and forth in front of the open door, flipping her hair, like she was on a catwalk. She did this over and over until a man came out. CMJA started to flirt with him and Sky isotope the man that she had a boyfriend. He apologized and walked away. CMJA asked Sky why she didn't tell him that she was Travis Alexander's girlfriend, which was ludicrous as the man would have had no idea who Travis was.

CMJA would continue to flirt with men, including married men from PPL at all hours of the night, trying to make Travis jealous. She was not flirting like Travis flirted. She made a big time play for a married man who was high up in PPL. Sky asked for her phone and texted the guy to stop texting Jodi and go home to bed with his wife. CMJA said to Sky "What if he ruins my business" to which Sky replied "What business?" CMJA didn't have an answer as she had no business.

There was a meeting at Travis' house and 8 of Chirs' associates were driving to Mesa.Travisndid not want CMJA to come as Deanna was going to be there and there was no room in Travis' house for CMJA to stay. She lied and said she had made arrangements to stay at someone else's house. CMJA insisted on going and met up with them and asked for someone to drive the 3 hours there with her. One of the top married guys in PPL, who CMJA had flirted with before, jumped out of Chris' car and into CMJA's before the only single guy in the car could. After arriving at Travis' house, the married guy took Chris aside and said he was going to leave his wife for CMJA as she was his soulmate. Fortunately, Chris was able to talk sense into him and he did not leave his wife. But CMJA did not leave this man alone, despite Sky telling her to, and continued to flirt and hang all over him every time she saw him. This man did everything he could to avoid her, but she would not let up.

There was a meeting at a restaurant and CMJA arrived, fixated on this man and proceeded to make everyone move so she could sit next to him. The man was trying to talk to Chris and she hung all over him, trying to talk to him, interrupting the conversation. This was after Sky had pointed out several times to CMJA that he was married with kids. CMJA had no shame and kept at it and when called on it, played innocent.

When CMJA met Deanna at Travis' house, she testified that Deanna ran upstairs and hid. Not true. Deanna stayed downstairs, shook CMJA's hand and proceeded to visit with all the people there as they were also Deanna's friends. CMJA testified that she and Travis slept on the couches and tried to hold hands. False. CMJA slept on the floor, despite Travis telling her to go.

CMJA tried to use 3 guys to make Travis jealous: Abe, Jon and Mark. She would send Travis emails that she claimed were for other guys. (Sky then details the Abe situation which we heard about at trial I.e. the magic underwear. So much for adhering to Mormon values. BTW, both Travis and Sky talked to CMJA about Mormon values and pre-marital sex, so CMJA claims that she didn't know etc were false).

CMJA turned Travis against her own family, making up lies about them. During the trial, Nurmi made Travis out to be a sexual deviant by sexting other women, but the evidence of CMJA sexting other men was not permitted.

CMJA started going to the Hughes more and more frequently, even after the email debacle, and would complain incessantly about Travis' lack of commitment to her. They rarely had alone time withTravis because CMJA was ever present and she would not allow anyone to be with him alone as they posed a threat to the fantasy she had built in her mind. Travis showed Sky an email that CMJA said she had received from an alleged stalker and Travis was quite concerned. Sky read it and started laughing, telling Travis that CMJA had sent it to herself and there was no stalker. Travis was in disbelief as he was concerned about this stalker. The letter was praising CMJA for all her talents and beauty (of course), and went on to say how Travis didn't deserve her and "he" would be watching her. (Classic CMJA). Travis was in shock and disbelief that Sky would think CMJA would write such a thing as she was the "nicest girl he had ever met".

 

[daisymae]

Mollyandme it's great seeing you here again and you sound very happy to be back with your family! We've missed you!

 

[Zuri]

Continued:

In April 2007, Sky and Crish observed CMJA being more clingy, obsessed, and manipulative. Sky told Chris to talk to Travis and tell him he couldn't marry CMJA as they were observing alarming traits in her. Travis and CMJA were visiting the Hughes and CMJA told Sky that Travis had left his email open so she read his emails and discovered he was communicating with other women. She forwarded all the emails to herself. She was complaining also about Travis not inviting her to move to AZ which was a common complaint.

While at the Hughes, she followed Travis everywhere. If he left the room, she wanted to know where he was. She waited outside the bathroom door until he came out, but would walk away when she heard the toilet flush so he didn't see her. This behavior was alarming to the Hughes. They felt she was smothering him along with being clingy and obsessed. One night, they all went in the hot tub and CMJA was all over Travis, kissing and hanging on him, on top of him, to the point where it made the Hughes uncomfortable. Sky asked Chris if CMJA even knew they were there and Travis repeatedly tried to get her to stop. She would for one minute and then be back at it. Once they went to bed, they heard a thud and upon investigating, they found CMJA outside Travis' room listening to him talk to Deanna.

When Chris, Sky and Travis were talking in the Hughes bedroom about CMJA being obsessed with Travis and all they had seen, Sky felt an evil presence and opened the door to find CMJA standing there listening. Travis told her he would be down to see her before he went to bed, so she left. About 40 minutes later, Sky sensed the same evil, cold feeling and mouthed again that CMJA was out there. Travis mouthed "No Way" and sure enough, when Sky whipped the door open, CMJA was standing there.

CMJA was angry, asking if it was a private conversation, to which they replied yes, it was. She stomped off and went back downstairs. Both Sky and Chris were so unnerved by the evil feeling they felt that they were worried CMJA would harm their children. They checked on their children every 15 minutes all night long and decided that CMJA could never come there again. Travis had asked them if they thought she could ever change, to which the Hughes replied "No".

 

[Zuri]

Continued:

The n cut morning, Sky spoke with CMJA alone and Sky told her that they had told Travis not to date her. She was sobbing that she couldn't lose him. It was an uncomfortable conversation. Sky told CMJA she was no longer welcome in their home and all the reasons why.

While Sky and CMJA were talking, friends of the Hughes, Jacob and Hollie, stopped by and they were quickly caught up on what was going on. Hollie was fixing lunch for the kids, and after Sky joined her and told her that she had kicked CMJA out, CMJA came into the kitchen and sat there for an hour instead of packing her bags and leaving. She waited until Travis got back from wherever he had gone with Chris and went outside with him and talked. Sky referred to CMJA as the Bunny Boiler in Fatal Attraction and similar to the character in "The Hand that Rocks the Cradle". Travis was upset and the Hughes apologized over and over, but they simply could not let evil into their home.

Travis was angry with the Hughes and their friendship was strained over the next few months.

NB: Sky goes on to describe and give examples of how each of CMJA's relationships ended and her stalking the men's emails, MySpace accounts. CMJA had done this to Travis on multiple occasions. She describes how Bobby Suarez moved to Hawaii to escape her; how she slept in Matt's bed waiting to confront him after breaking in. CMJA was always the victim. CMJA always used the term "spun around" when confronted by the ex boyfriends. Her playbook consisted of "falling to her knees" being "grabbed by the wrists", always the Victim in her playbook that she had been using forever.

 

[Zuri]

Continued:

The Hughes did not see CMJA until 2-3 months later at the Team Building event in Daniel's Summit, Utah at a lodge. It was a fun filled event with lots of activities like swimming. Hiking, 4 wheeling, horse back riding, boating etc along with training. Good friends of Travis' told him they were concerned about him and his relationship with CMJA. Travis in turn got mad at Sky and accused her of turning people against CMJA which was not true. His friends could see for themselves. Sky went off on Travis and told him her thoughts and feelings, which she later regretted. Travis needed a break and left the lodge for several hours, not telling CMJA that he was leaving. She proceeded to ask everyone multiple times if they had seen Travis, totally panicked, and paced back and forth the entire time he was gone. She searched everywhere for him, totally obsessed (and possessed from the sounds of it).

Her possessive, manipulative, lying, conniving actions eventually led to their breakup at the end of July 2007. Travis really cared for her, but knew deep down it was not going to work. Contrary to what the Defense portrayed, it was NOT because CMJA was not a virgin and Travis needed to find one to marry. Travis was trying to follow the tenants of the LDS Church and knew he couldn't as long as CMJA and he were in a relationship.

 

[Niner]

Morning all! :wave:

Hailey Dunbar-Blanchette - I'm following this case too! And thanks for all the other news stories, YESorNO!!

snipped by me

L said he had sexual interest in her "and she knew it"- would "feign interest in him and without fail he would eventually ask .. if she needed anything"- she pretended she was OK-she made it feel as if she "was practically doing him a favor by allowing him to send her money...or..book. In this regard, she was amazing" (pg. 104) L said it was "so pathetic"

Oh - this must be guy her followers said she :jail: was going go live with, that I read somewhere!! :laughing: Pathetic is right! Nurmi got that one right! :lol:

Too bad Juan didn't use those calls to show how Inmate #whatever :jail: manipulating she was...

Another beautiful day in the neighborhood!! I'm just getting exciting about Christmas with Mollyandme and coffeejunkie taking out their Christmas decorations. Last year I moved all my Christmas decorations into a storage box, as they were all scattered into different boxes... :gaah: LOL! I too am anguishly awaiting next weekend when I can get a tree and start my decorating and wrapping up presents!! :happydance:

Oops - tried "advanced" post again, and it failed... so more to add:

CMJA would continue to flirt with men, including married men from PPL at all hours of the night, trying to make Travis jealous. She was not flirting like Travis flirted. She made a big time play for a married man who was high up in PPL. Sky asked for her phone and texted the guy to stop texting Jodi and go home to bed with his wife. CMJA said to Sky "What if he ruins my business" to which Sky replied "What business?" CMJA didn't have an answer as she had no business.

re bold - I found this VERY funny! :laughcry: :tyou: again Zuri for posting these excerpts from their book!

also:

There was a meeting at Travis' house and 8 of Chirs' associates were driving to Mesa.Travisndid not want CMJA to come as Deanna was going to be there and there was no room in Travis' house for CMJA to stay. She lied and said she had made arrangements to stay at someone else's house. CMJA insisted on going and met up with them and asked for someone to drive the 3 hours there with her. One of the top married guys in PPL, who CMJA had flirted with before, jumped out of Chris' car and into CMJA's before the only single guy in the car could. After arriving at Travis' house, the married guy took Chris aside and said he was going to leave his wife for CMJA as she was his soulmate. Fortunately, Chris was able to talk sense into him and he did not leave his wife. But CMJA did not leave this man alone, despite Sky telling her to, and continued to flirt and hang all over him every time she saw him. This man did everything he could to avoid her, but she would not let up.

Would this be Abe? or someone else? :waitasec: You KNOW what he wanted from her - right?!!

When Chris, Sky and Travis were talking in the Hughes bedroom about CMJA being obsessed with Travis and all they had seen, Sky felt an evil presence and opened the door to find CMJA standing there listening. Travis told her he would be down to see her before he went to bed, so she left. About 40 minutes later, Sky sensed the same evil, cold feeling and mouthed again that CMJA was out there. Travis mouthed "No Way" and sure enough, when Sky whipped the door open, CMJA was standing there.

CMJA was angry, asking if it was a private conversation, to which they replied yes, it was. She stomped off and went back downstairs. Both Sky and Chris were so unnerved by the evil feeling they felt that they were worried CMJA would harm their children. They checked on their children every 15 minutes all night long and decided that CMJA could never come there again. Travis had asked them if they thought she could ever change, to which the Hughes replied "No".

Too bad Travis didn't sense that evil feeling... :sigh:

Okay - will post this and "see" if there are any more posts after Zuri's...

:seeya:

 

[GigiG]

Just ran across this interesting article regarding narcissists:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott...se-p_b_8670508.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592


ETA

Here are some salient points from the article (ring any bells?):

According to this research, narcissists may be more popular at first acquaintance because they are more likely to display behaviors that trigger a positive pathway, perhaps because they are trying to make a good first impression.

In line with this idea, W. Keith Campbell and Stacy Campbell proposed a new model of narcissism in which they argue that two particular time points are important. The “emerging zone” includes situations involving unacquainted individuals, early-stage relationships, and short-term contexts. In contrast, the "enduring zone" involves situations involving acquainted individuals, continuing relationships, and long-term consequences...

...As the relationship develops, narcissists start displaying behaviors that are evaluated negatively, such as arrogance and aggression. Narcissists cyclically return to the emerging zone because they are addicted to the positive social feedback and emotional rush they get from this zone. They live in this zone. As a result, they are good at being popular, making new friends, and acquiring social status, but are really quite terrible at sustaining anything meaningful and intimate....

...Mitja Back and colleagues recently conducted a study in which they tracked changes in popularity over several time points. They drew on their new theory of narcissism, called the "Narcissistic Admiration and Rivalry Concept". According to their theory, narcissists’ overarching goal of maintaining a grandiose self is pursued by 2 separate pathways: narcissistic admiration (assertive self-enhancement) and narcissistic rivalry (antagonistic self-protection). Despite being positively related to each other, these two different components of narcissism differentially predict interpersonal orientations, reactions to transgressions in friendships and romantic relationships, interpersonal perceptions during group interactions, and observed behaviors in experimental observations...

...For instance, a recent study found that neuroticism wasn't detected at first acquaintance either, but was only observable in stressful situations. Likewise, a quieter form of narcissism called "vulnerable narcissism" tends to not be detected at first. Joshua Miller and W. Keith Campbell found that vulnerable narcissism is an emotionally unstable, negative-affect-laden, and introverted variant of narcissism whereas grandiose narcissism (the kind of narcissism studied in the experiments documented in this post) is an emotionally resilient, extraverted form of narcissism...

...Kelly Dickinson and Aaron Pincus found that grandiose narcissism is associated with dramatic traits including histrionic personality disorders. Grandiose narcissists denied interpersonal distress relating to their interpersonal problems and they reported adult attachment styles reflective of positive self-representations (e.g., secure). Vulnerable narcissists, in contrast, reported high interpersonal distress and greater domineering, controlling, vindictive, cold, and socially avoidant interpersonal problems. Their adult attachment styles were reflective of negative self-representations (fearful, preoccupied). So while grandiose narcissism may be easier to detect, vulnerable narcissism may take even more time to reveal itself (see here for a great study showing that while grandiose and vulnerable narcissism are associated with antogonism and entitlement, they differ in terms of personality, interpersonal behavior, and psychopathology)...

...What narcissists often don't realize is that their behaviors are self-sabotaging. Because they are so addicted to the emerging zone, they often don't see how their behaviors are making it nearly impossible that they will ever gain the deep social and emotional well-being rewards of being in an intimate, close relationship...

 

[Zuri]

Continued:

August 13-15, 2007, a group of friends including Travis and the Highes got together for their yearly 4 wheeling trip. Travis was usually the life of the party. He spent the entire time arguing with CMJA on the phone and it put a downer on the whole experience. Travis rode on the way up with his friend Mike and Travis was on the phone arguing, and mad. He told Mike that CMJA had moved to Mesa and Mike was shocked. Apparently, Travis felt that he was being followed and stalked by CMJA, even though he couldn't see her and that she was going in his house when he wasn't there. Mike told him to be careful as that was some serious stuff. Travis didn't seem to worried.

The only time was there was a break was when they lost cell service in the mountains. Travis would drive to a place that had service to talk to her. He brought the whole group down and was disconnected the whole time. Mike told Sky what had happened on the way up and she confronted Travis and let him have it.

She said it was the only time Travis was truly angry with her. Travis told Sky that he was all CMJA had and he felt bad for her. He did not want to hear what Sky had to say. Every time he tried to distance himself, CMJA threatened suicide. Sky told him that was ridiculous. He had not wanted her to move there and he knew she was ruining his life, but he felt sorry for her. That was when Sky realized how much control CMJA had over Travis. Sky realized later that all she should have done was give him a hug because after that blowout, he became secretive about seeing CMJA.

Travis met Lisa Andrews and they started hanging out in October 2007. Travis had won a trip to Newport Beach and had invited CMJA to go, even while interested in Lisa. Travis and Lisa were texting back and forth and when Travis was in the shower, CMJA texted Lisa from Travis' phone "Cuddle time with Jodi, I freaking love this girl".

CMJA went missing for hours during this trip with a married guy she had been texting. His friends tried to tell him that CMJA was bad news, but Travis felt responsible for her.

Travis and Lisa's relationship continued to heat up and then she got cold feet. They had planned a trip to Disneyland but never got to go. Lisa felt they were moving too quickly. CMJA would not go away and continued to interfere with Travis' relationship with Lisa as they got back together.

Flores told Sky that it was evident from all the text messages that Travis tried to be good, but CMJA would feel him back in with sex, "naked underneath trench coat style" and he said no guy could resist that.

In December, his tires were slashed out front of Lisa's house. Everyone told him that CMJA had slashed his tires, but he didn't want to believe it. He did ask her and she denied it. He had called Samantha to ask her advice and told her that CMJA had slashed his tires. She advised him to make a police report. He called 911 but the cops never came. When CMJA was told by Travis that he had called Samantha and told her that CMJA had slashed his tires, she freaked out and made Travis call her back and retract it.

As Travis and Lisa's relationship grew, CMJA unraveled. Lisa's tires were slashed in Travis' driveway. Other things were happening. Someone opened the door to Lisa's house and when Travis checked, no one was there. Someone knocked on the window. Same thing. Lisa received an email that called her a *advertiser censored* and to repent. Once while Lisa was at Travis' house, CMJA walked in and Lisa saw her. She told Travis and he ran after her. They would also find lights on that had been turned off, and doors unlocked that had been locked. Deanna experienced this too while at Travis' home.

 

[HMSHood]

The Dangerous Injustice Collector: Behaviors of Someone Who Never Forgets, Never Forgives, Never Lets Go, and Strikes Back!
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/vio.2014.1509

Andrew Kehoe was a dangerous injustice collector. He and his wife were living in Bath, Michigan, and the year was 1927 when he committed the worst school massacre in U.S. history.

Kehoe, an electrician by training, had been a member of the local school board and a farmer. His work required that he interact with others in the community, but his interpersonal skills were lacking. He was known as someone who kept grudges and was rigid, demanding, self-righteous, and easily offended with real or imagined slights. Minor, inconsequential events made Kehoe angry, and he remembered them for a long time (Ellsworth 1927).

Identifying The Next Mass Murderer—Before It’s Too Late
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ntifying-the-next-mass-murderer-it-s-too-late

On June 17, 2015, according to authorities, Dylann Storm Roof (link is external) walked into the Emanuel
African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, sat down, and after an hour or so allegedly shot three men and six women, attending a bible study class. Immediately people began to take sides, and not just about the gun debate. Was this an act of terror? Was this a hate crime? Was this a “lone wolf?” Was this a conspiracy? On and on. What is interesting as well as frustrating is that none of these terms serve a useful purpose.

Four years ago, on July 22, 2011, Anders Behring Breivik set off a bomb near the government headquarters of the Labor Party in Oslo, Norway; after which he proceeded to the secluded island of Utøya, where he methodically killed, with a high powered rifle, 65 plus children attending a youth event. Does it matter if we call Anders Behring Breivik a terrorist, mass murderer, or a lone wolf? Not really, only one thing matters: how did he become this way, and were there signs that could have prevented this horrendous tragedy?

Once again we face a mass murder (FBI defined as 4 or more) and we need to get past the debate over the nomenclature (terrorist, extremist, mass murderer, lone wolf, genocide, etc.)—that serves no prophylactic purpose. When it comes to Dylann Storm Roof, Anders Behring Breivik, the Boston Marathon Bombers, or the likes of Theodore John "Ted" Kaczynski known as the UNABOMBER, and Timothy McVeigh, it’s not what we call them, the issue is: could we have prevented their acts? The answer is yes. And yet, we seem to be incapacitated when we hear the term “lone wolf” or “solo terrorist” as if we were describing a demon beyond our capability to identify and stop.

From the article.
Narcissistic Traits
Paranoid Ideation
Passionate Hatred
Wound Collectors
Communication
Violence as Magic
Isolation
The Lethal Cocktail
Acting Out

Jodi Arias is not a mass murderer, but she shows characteristics of a wound collector or injustice collector. She has a lot of deep seated resentment and pent up anger. She could not let go about Travis Alexander, which happened on June 29, 2007. To her it was a crime on her ego. That gave her a sense of rejection and abandonment that burned for a year. Than on June 4, 2008, she kills Travis Alexander. It happened one year after the break up. Arias shows narcissistic, paranoid, passionate hatred, wound collector, violence as magic, lethal cocktail, and acting out. I do not know if Arias had any history of isolation. It is probable she did.

Wound collectors are not just mass murderers or terrorists. Another example of a non-mass killing injustice collector are Betty Broderick and Lori Drew.

Betty Broderick divorce with Dan Broderick was final in July 1986. Than on November 5, 1989, Broderick kills Dan Broderick and Linda Kolkena. That happened three years after the divorce was formalized. Prior to the murders, Broderick constantly harassed Dan Broderick and Linda Kolkena. She would make 60 or more harassing calls to them. She would even vandalize their property out of anger. She was a complainer and complained how life was unfair to her. Broderick felt entitled to live the high life. Broderick shows narcissistic, paranoid, passionate hatred, wound collector, communication, violence as magic, isolation, lethal cocktail, and acting out.

Brodericks' Life Style Revealed in Documents : Finances: A test of wills is woven through a series of tangled financial dealings. A judge in the divorce action said neither was being reasonable
http://articles.latimes.com/1989-11-19/local/me-237_1_betty-broderick

Lori Drew harassed Megan Meier to suicide in October 2006. Prior to Meier's death, Drew was very angry about Sarah Drew not being friends with Megan Meier in Spring 2006. She deluded into thinking her daughter was being harassed by Meier. A neighbor said that Lori Drew was often bad mouth Megan Meier. The Josh Evans scheme started in September 2006, a few months after Megan and Sarah stopped being friends. Tina Meier said in a Websleuth Radio Interview that she was a very unhappy person who complained nonstop. She was very envious of other people, particularly the Meiers. She felt entitled to be invited to every parties and be involved in every organization. Right there, Lori Drew is masochist as she obsesses about her suffering wants everyone to know about it. She wanted Sarah to be happy. Drew shows narcissistic, paranoid, passionate hatred, wound collector, communication, lethal cocktail, and acting out. Drew is not known to isolate herself as she likes being around people.

Websleuth Radio Interview Tina Meier
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/09/30/tricias-true-crime-radio-adult-cyber-bullying

Friend Game
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/01/21/friend-game

Lori Drew Sentencing Memo
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2009/05/lori-drew-government-sentencing-memo.pdf

Jodi Arias and Betty Broderick turned to violence. Lori Drew engaged in psychological torture. All three are driven by extreme resentment at the world that boiled over. They did not become injustice collectors overnight. They are like it since their childhood. Arias and Broderick are known to have negative relationship with parents. Not much is known about Lori Drew, but probably would be similar to Arias and Broderick. She likely has history of poor relationship with parents and is overcompensating on Sarah. Regardless, they are very bitter people and will remember the slightings they get. Tina Meier's description of Lori Drew at 20:40 is a very good description of an injustice collector.

What does this mean? Jodi Arias, Betty Broderick, and Lori Drew are dangerous injustice collectors. It shows injustice collectors are not just mass murderers or terrorists. They do not snap and wake up one day and say they will do it. It is years in the making. They catalog every wrong they have received and act on it.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

1942 - The Cocoanut Grove nightclub in Boston a former speakeasy New Frequently Asked Questions About Prohibition burns to the ground in the worst Night Club Fire in US history killing 492 people. The fire began when a canopy of artificial palm fronds caught fire and because of the design and number of highly flammable drapes spread quickly through the club and due to the poor design and blocked entrances many patrons could not get out. The fire did have one positive effect which was that fire regulations throughout the country were changed which banned flammable decorations and required all swinging exit doors to open outwards, the new regulations also required exit signs to be visible at all times.




[video=youtu;MNXb3bgYIs8]http://youtu.be/MNXb3bgYIs8[/video]

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

1975 - Fly, Robin, Fly - Silver Convention tops the charts this day.

[video=youtu;plO_afEjYmE]http://youtu.be/plO_afEjYmE[/video]

 

[Dmacky]

Good morning to all in my favorite thread here at WS
I've been awake since 1:30 am :gaah: Usually I sleep pretty well, don't know why I couldn't last night. Nothing different on my mind.... :dunno:
I did get all caught up on this new thread though, so all is not lost (except sleep)
coffee Squeak is so adorable! I saw the video you posted of him rubbing his head in his bed and getting his little Pebbles ponytail/topknot out of his hair :giggle: Looks like he was NOT having any part of it. A little dog with a big ATTITUDE. Precious. (maybe he thought it didn't make him look manly)

YoN Thanks so much for giving us the lowdown on Laurence Kirk's book. Interesting to say the least.

Zuri Thank you too mam, for the Our Friend Travis details :heart:

Mollyandme The video you posted made me tear up, as I'm sure we all have loved ones who are not with us anymore. Thank you, I haven't heard that song in ages.

Niner, I have to google a lot of Zuri's words too :blush: She's incredibly intelligent, and it seems I aint got that much book learnin :wink: Love ya Zuri, you have unknowingly taught me the meaning of many words.

Pages Loved the pic of baby Lily. She a is beautiful little girl, and you'd never know by looking that she ever had a rough road for awhile. She definitely is loved, that's for sure.

Spell love ya! You have always got my back :smile:

daisymae How is your arm/shoulder??

Gigi and Susza ~ :hug:

I know I've missed a lot of peeps...But I am running on 3 hours sleep and it's starting to hit me. BUT I love you ALL too!

 

[coffeejunkie]

Love you too, Dmacky :hug:

And a rainy GOOD MORNING from Indiana and a very tired lady lol. Today is clean up day after the mass Christmas decoration invasion:giggle: Makes me wonder why I do this to myself each year? Must be my insane love of Christmas, so it can't be all bad Besides, it looks so festive and enchanting:xmastree:

Smile, because there is always something to smile about and here's to you, my friends :coffeews:
:grouphug: I will be back sooner or later.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

1960 - A Thousand Stars - Kathy Young with The Innocents makes to the charts. It's been raining and raining. It's 43 three now with an chance of rain is 100%.



If this keeps up I won't be able to .........

[video=youtu;_Fri2I16x88]http://youtu.be/_Fri2I16x88[/video]

 

[YESorNO]

Link: http://textimages.us/afternoon/afternoon01/afternoon-043.gif
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Audreanna Zimmerman, Teen Mother of 2, Burned to Death in Trailer Park Feud

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/04/audreanna_zimmerman_teen_mothe.php

Tina Brown remains on death row for brutal murder

"The Florida Supreme Court unanimously upheld the conviction and death penalty sentence of a Pensacola woman convicted of beating a 19-year-old with a crowbar, shocking her with a stun gun and then setting her on fire, according to the State Attorney’s Office.

In 2012, Tina Lasonya Brown, 43, was found guilty of first-degree murder in the death of Audreanna Zimmerman..."

http://www.pnj.com/story/news/crime/2014/05/22/tina-brown-remains-death-row-brutal-murder/9442541/
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EXCLUSIVE: Britons on death row: Up to 75 UK citizens face execution abroad
UP to 75 Britons face execution for crimes committed abroad, it has emerged.

"More than five decades after the British government abolished the death penalty, dozens of Britons are languishing in foreign jails for crimes ranging from blasphemy to murder. .."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/55...n-abroad?_ga=1.148658161.719714684.1445102944
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Mary Ann Cotton: England's First Serial Killer

"On March 24, 1873, Mary Ann Cotton was hanged for the murder of her fourth husband's son, Charles Edward Cotton. She was 40 years old, and would become known as Britain's first serial killer: In her wake she left up to 21 dead, including 11 of her 13 children, three of her four husbands, one lover, and her mother..."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-l...ands_b_8339314.html?utm_hp_ref=crime&ir=Crime
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[YESorNO]

If You’re Not Paranoid, You’re Crazy :scared:
As government agencies and tech companies develop more and more intrusive means of watching and influencing people, how can we live free lives?

"...Had my phone picked up my words through its mic and somehow relayed them to my wristband, which then signaled the app?
The devices spoke to each other behind my back—I’d known they would when I “paired” them—but suddenly I was wary of their relationship. Who else did they talk to, and about what? And what happened to their conversations? Were they temporarily archived, promptly scrubbed, or forever incorporated into the “cloud,” that ghostly entity with the too-disarming name?..."

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/11/if-youre-not-paranoid-youre-crazy/407833/
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Samsung's SmartTVs Are Listening to Your Living Room Chatter
Here's how to turn it off

"It sounds crazy, but privacy experts are warning Samsung TV buyers not to talk about private subjects in front of their television sets. Someone could be using the voice activation technology to eavesdrop.

Originally found by The Daily Beast, there's a little clause in you television's privacy policy that states what you say isn't just between you and your TV. It's between you, your TV, Samsung, and its third party vendors. It's right there in print: "Please be aware that if your spoken words include personal or other sensitive information, that information will be among the data captured and transmitted to a third party through your use of Voice Recognition."..."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tec...meones-listening-in-on-your-samsung-smart-tv/
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What Privacy Do You Really Have Online?

"...with the advent of the Internet of things, deeper surveillance of our behavior will “erode the notion of what it is to be human itself.” Your interests, your health, your purchases, and your habits will all be predictable and forecastable. Everything you do will be trackable and quantifiable, not just via your smartphone or your computer, but via the constellation of other Internet-connected devices that will soon blink on in your home, in your office, and along your commute..."

http://www.cheatsheet.com/gear-style/what-privacy-do-you-really-have-online.html/?a=viewall
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