SIDEBAR #7- Arias/Alexander forum

[TXProfessional]

I wish we had a dedicated thread to discuss the jurors. It would be nice to be able to search in one place as new jurors speak out. Also, to speculate how each voted. Is that possible?

Maryann, poster Fruity was getting information together on jurors and she posted in the KCL Court thread that she was gathering the info for a Juror thread.

 

[Jane Jetson]

There are people who kill for sport and there are people who kill once and never kill again. So the number of stab wounds is irrelevant in terms of likelihood of killing again. The number of stab wounds is relevant in terms of brutality.

Estrella is a county jail that's pretty much a holding area or purgatory for people serving light sentences or who are waiting for trial. Perryville is a medium/maximum security prison filled with people who've been convicted and aren't going anywhere until their sentences are up, they're paroled or they die.

CMja poses no physical threat to the inmates at her new home. She's a coward who got the best of a person who trusted her. She's a sniveling little girl about to get turned out at Perryville.

Unless she has affiliations going in she's at the whim of the inmates.

If she picks fights and reports inmates at Perryville the way she did at Estrella, she won't have to worry about serving out a life sentence.

That's a fact.

Respectfully, I don't know if that's going to be the case. CMJA is very vicious, and she started torturing Travis mentally before she got around to slicing and dicing him.

You see that dead, hollow look in her eyes? I think she might actually enjoy physical violence, seeing people suffer, and even thinking about it beforehand and afterwards.

I guess we'll - well, the inmates at Perryville - will find out what happens if they incite Jodi Ann into a rage. :twocents:

 

[Phoebeb]

I don't know if Debra Milke is still on AZ death row since her sentence was recently overturned, but she and another woman are each there for killing a young child. Wendi is there because she murdered her young husband, father of their two children, because his cancer wasn't killing him fast enough for her. She'd gotten one of her lovers to take the insurance physical posing as her dh iirc. When his poisoned stew didn't kill him at dinner one night, she crashed a chair into his head and beat him to death with a chair leg. There may have been some stabbing too, but the crime went something like I've described. If she'd had a diagnosed personality disorder, she wouldn't be on death row imo. And neither will JA, unfortunately.

BBM- I hope that JM can emphasize that BPD is not a mental illness. I think given that 4 jurors could not find for death, possibly there was sympathy towards her re her "mental illness", as if she had no control over her actions.

 

[TXProfessional]

Does anyone know where I can find the WS juror guide so I can put a face with the WS descriptions?
I get Nancy and the wrestler, but wanted to read about Maureen, obviously the one JC thought looked so much like Sandy A

Phoebeb, on the KCL Holds Court thread a poster by the name of Fruity has been updating and posting the Juror description list.

 

[cubbeegirl]

Ok I see the wrestler is the youngest and that is who I was thinking....

So glad I was wrong!!!!!

I thought there was another younger man on the jury...the one who wore the hoodie? Or am I dreaming?

 

[Phoebeb]

The banker guy was pretty right on during this interview.. Loved twhen the question was asked about seeing Cmja the first time , If he felt suprised or something like that..His response ( not quoting) .." yes until the evidenced starting pouring in"..then they all kind of looked and shared a half smile with each other. NIce diff between him and the foreman

I thought that was the wrestler... I'm so confused

 

[Angelina Frost]

I think it's a bit simplistic to think that older men are more likely to vote for life in the JA case. The same case can made for women and younger individuals who can identify with JA and therefore less likely to sentence her to death.

I don't think gender or age has anything to do with it. Just look at the demographics of Websleuthers. I don't think death penalty support increases with age. Men aren't necessarily more likely to vote for life either.

Just my two cents.

ITA. I wonder if the foreman may have inadvertently opened up a can of ageist worms?

My mom and dad are both 60+.

My mom, much to my horror even though I love her madly, is 100% opposed to the death penalty. When I asked her if she could have voted to execute Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy or Gary Ridgeway, she said no. No chance she would put JA to death. :facepalm:

My father otoh, would probably be okay with sending me to death row if I bogarted his last can of Dr. Pepper. He could inject JA full of poison himself and be home in time to watch the Raiders game.

 

[kscornfed]

I agree and I think it was something he believed was immoral. I wonder if it could have been she had an abortion, or if he found out she was a prostitute or something along those lines. I remember from the texts, etc. he threatened to tell her mother. I wonder if he did and she is not volunteering that information. When SA found out TA had been murdered she did not hesitate to ask JA if she did it. Now that to me is strange. After all they were supposed to be broken up, etc. jmo

i don't think she had an abortion but i can see her lying and saying she did. she would have never gotten rid of his baby. that would have been her dream come true, i would imagine. he would have been connected to her for life.

i don't think that's it but then again, what do i know? LOL.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have 14, 12, 4 and 18. We'll see!

Is there a pool?
I want in


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[Mare10]

See ya later, I have ton's to do and so far I got nothing accomplished except for eating a sandwich Laters Gators!

 

[gcharlie]

The witnesses don't come back. They already testified, and the jury already came to a unanimous decision of murder 1. They are only retrying the penalty phase, so all the testimony and evidence are already on record. They can't go through new testimony with the witnesses because a) it isn't necessary, b) new testimony would be different than what they already testified to, and c) the defense can't retry the guilt/innocence phase since that's already been decided.

They aren't retrying the whole case, only the penalty phase with the new jury. The new jury will be given whatever evidence the prosecution decides they should know to bring them up to speed on the facts of the case and told that Jodi was found guilty of murder 1 and guilty of the crime being especially cruel. The defense can only use mitigating factors as to why her life should be spared. Jodi can probably give her statement again, and maybe they can find some people to testify to plead to save her life as they couldn't before... that I don't know about. They may have to go with just Jodi's statement since that's what they did the first time around.

It won't take a long time since the case itself is not being retried - only the penalty phase is being retried, but the new jury has to be informed on the facts of the case that have already been determined. What is going to take a long time is finding 12 jurors plus alternates that haven't heard about this case and that are also death qualified.

Everyone else stays the same... same prosecutor, same defense counsel, same judge, same defendant, etc.

I'm curious to know whether or not JM can bring in all those ridiculous interviews that Jodi did after recently throwing everyone including the jury under the bus.

There is a lot of confusion about what the procedures for retrial of the penalty phase and how jurors get brought up to speed on the facts of the case.

AZ Lawyer has posted in the legal questions thread and it appears that guilt phase witnesses can be brought back to testify, with transcripts from the original testimony used to assist in cross.

It is my understanding that nothing new can be presented in the presentation of the guilt or aggravation phase of the trial.

Speaking for myself, I really would appreciate clarification as to how things go in a retrial of the penalty phase. I am at a loss here.

 

[KandyKane]

That was not my point. I think JA needs it. I've been around enough criminals via work to know. She qualifies for it. I do not, the rest of us probably do not, that was my reasoning. Some people are walking time bombs.

I don't think any prisoner "needs" to be kept in perpetual solitary confinement. Cruel and unusual punishment means it's cruel and unusual for anyone. Perpetual or long term solitary confinement is cruel and unusual punishment. There's no getting around that. A human being cannot survive those conditions without losing their mind. It's legally cruelty to keep a dog that way, so why in the world is treating a human being that way considered acceptable? It was the US that taught other countries that this sort of treatment of prisoners is cruelty, and now we do it ourselves.

The death penalty also needs to go. How is it logical that the punishment for killing someone is to kill them? Either killing is bad except for self-defense/defense of another or it isn't. Capital punishment is based on revenge, not punishment or rehabilitation. There is no logical reason why a prisoner guilty of the most heinous crimes can't just be confined to prison for the remainder of their life. Nothing is gained by killing them other than getting revenge. Just as subjecting a prisoner to cruel and unusual treatment like solitary confinement has no logical purpose other than revenge.

Treating human beings with decency and the basics of human needs is a requirement of any just and civil society. Otherwise we become what we claim to despise.

Like most people, I detest the idea that prisoners get to have adequate food, medical care, a roof over their heads, sanitation and basic human dignity when so many poor or ill don't. But that doesn't mean we're treat our prisoners too WELL it means we treat our poor or ill too BADLY.

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

Respectfully, I don't know if that's going to be the case. CMJA is very vicious, and she started torturing Travis mentally before she got around to slicing and dicing him.

You see that dead, hollow look in her eyes? I think she might actually enjoy physical violence, seeing people suffer, and even thinking about it beforehand and afterwards.

I guess we'll - well, the inmates at Perryville - will find out what happens if they incite Jodi Ann into a rage. :twocents:

I respect your opinion Ms. Jetson.

In an early job, I had interaction with stone colds. Intensely violent people. Protected, of course. Lots of protection. But being in the same room, within touching distance. Real stone colds. In the beginning, I admit I shook sometimes because of the intensity of the deadness and indifference about them. Just writing that, I caught my breath a little.

When friends would ask me about them, all I could say was, "These people have done some deep sh$t."

CMja doesn't scare me. I'm grossed out by her and would not want her anywhere near me just because she looks nasty to me. As if no matter how much she scrubbed, she wouldn't seem clean.

If she doesn't scare me, she isn't going to scare anybody at Perryville.

 

[rose222]

BBM- I hope that JM can emphasize that BPD is not a mental illness. I think given that 4 jurors could not find for death, possibly there was sympathy towards her re her "mental illness", as if she had no control over her actions.

I did not like Demarte saying that JA's actions were immature, like a teenager. I still cringe when I hear that. JA is hard core psychopath. Manipulative like Ted Bundy. As cruel. As everything.

 

[rose222]

Is there a pool?
I want in


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What are your thoughts, Linda? Who voted for life, you think? There were 4 of them.

 

[DebinGA]

BBM- I hope that JM can emphasize that BPD is not a mental illness. I think given that 4 jurors could not find for death, possibly there was sympathy towards her re her "mental illness", as if she had no control over her actions.

Dr. DeMarte's reaction to finding JA showed elevated levels in 7 of the 9 MMPI categories doomed the death penalty option imo. JA's entirely culpable for the premeditated murder. She knew right from wrong. But she's a seriously disturbed individual who's unfixable and will remain a danger to others as long as she lives. Yet, she's so provably messed up that I don't believe another jury will all agree to death in Round 2 either.

 

[Lilly12]

I'll go but jurors, please forgive me if I'm wrong. I myself am starting to think that LWOP will be worse than the DP.

The foreman of course
Juror 14 (CPA)
Juror 12 (Neil)
Juror 4 (Grandpa)

I'd be shocked if Willie voted for life!

Look at us acting as though we could read minds! :floorlaugh:

I think it is at least one female who did not vote for the DP.

 

[TXProfessional]

I have 14, 12, 4 and 18. We'll see!

:twocents::twocents: I have;

Juror No. 1 - Church Lady
Juror No. 12 - Neil
Juror No. 9 - Willie
Juror No. 18 - The Artist (Identified as JF William Zervakos)

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Think the foreman is entrenched in his beliefs and would not change his mind no matter what - and that is what happened in the jury room.

He will continue to validate his position. :twocents:

True, it would be hard admit any error at this point.

 

[swanna]

I thought that was the wrestler... I'm so confused

No your right going by our list but in real life his profession is a banker.