Size 12-14 Bloomies "modelled"

[Jayelles]

I always had the impression that this was an accident. Maybe the packet of size-12s was placed in JB's room or drawer by the housekeeper who didn't notice the size and then JB opened them thinking they were for her. Something like that. Once the packet was opened, PR decided to just keep them for JB to grow into.

Now THAT suggestion has merit! The packets are identical and it is only a small circular sticker on the top right corner which tells you the size. A child who knew she had been brought a packet of these wouldn't be likely to look at the sticker (or even spot it as it is light pink in colour).

However, I would imagine that Jonbenet's reaction to them would be the same as Tootsie's. As I posted before, I deliberately removed the knickers from the packet and held them up to see her reaction. She giggled as she recognised the Bloomies and then exclaimed something along the lines of "They're HUGE. They look like they are yours".

She didn't think they were for her because they were so big. My guess is that if JBR opened them in error, she too would question the size of them. When I got Tootsie to try them on she was giggling because they were so large. She kept doing a semi-squatting position because of the way the crotch was dangling down.

She would not have chosen to wear them and she would have been miserable if for some reason I had insisted she wear them.

 

[Britt]

The person doing the redressing may very well be aware of that the underware was way to large, the whole purpose was to deceive.
To make it look like someone redressed her who was unaware of little girls clothing habits.

Interesting thought. But who is the perp framing here? Surely not an intruder... what intruder would bother to redress his victim, much less spend time rummaging through drawers looking for underwear?

But what if Patsy was framing John? Or at least trying to involve him in the evidence to trap him into helping her. Now that makes sense. I still wonder how his shirt fibers ended up on JB's underwear. Was he framed?

 

[Jayelles]

I tend to think Linda Hoffmann-Pugh had nothing to do with the underwear, mostly because her job was not to change the aesthetics of the house and the choices of where the Ramseys put their possessions. Linda's job was to make the house sanitary. If a clean bag of newly-purchased underwear were sitting on the kitchen table, for example, it was her job to pick up the package, clean the table surface, and put the package back where it was, because it is supposed to be her employer's decision as to where that package needs to be. For that matter, if, as you propose, the housekeeper might have put the package in JonBenet's room, why would that be a likely decision for Linda to make, when the equally viable option exists to put them in Patsy's bedroom because, from Linda's perspective, the underwear could just as likely belong to Patsy?

Having said that, cleaners do often take the initiative once they learn where things belong. We had a cleaning lady for years who became like one of the family. She started doing things off her own bat that she wasn't expected to do. My husband worshipped her! Sadly, she retired and we felt she was irreplaceable :-(

 

[BBB167893]

"But what if Patsy was framing John? Or at least trying to involve him in the evidence to trap him into helping her. Now that makes sense. I still wonder how his shirt fibers ended up on JB's underwear. Was he framed?"

Considering how much heat he let her take, maybe he thought so.

 

[Britt]

Considering how much heat he let her take, maybe he thought so.

I've often wondered if he joined the coverup that morning not out of love for Patsy, but because he suspected she'd made him an unwilling accomplice and he was being extremely cautious. That note was full of threats and he knew who wrote it the instant he saw it.

Then when the medical evidence came out - the vaginal injury, the massive head blow - he was trapped. If he tried to turn Patsy in and extricate himself, who would believe him? And if she used his shirt to add fibers...

I wonder if incriminating John was Patsy's Plan B, in case the intruder thing didn't take.

 

[tumble]

Interesting thought. But who is the perp framing here? Surely not an intruder... what intruder would bother to redress his victim, much less spend time rummaging through drawers looking for underwear?

But what if Patsy was framing John? Or at least trying to involve him in the evidence to trap him into helping her. Now that makes sense. I still wonder how his shirt fibers ended up on JB's underwear. Was he framed?

Actually I think the thought was to frame an intruder. This misfired as badly as the wiped batteries. We can't expect that the stager(s) did nothing wrong in their staging attempt. I don't think the stager(s) acknowleged the fact that an intruder would have no need to to any redressing at all.

 

[Cranberry]

I can introduce another aspect of the ludicrousness to this scenario.

JonBenet was generous. She gave things away. She shared her cupcake with other children rather than see them go without.

Why would JonBenet, of all people, take a Christmas gift away from her cousin, especially when she supposedly had her own version of the same gift?

Yes, IMO this is another example of the subtle ways the R's have tried to put the blame on JB for their own questionable/unexplainable behavior or actions.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

And on top of that...seriously - who sends their 12 year old niece a package of underwear for Christmas?

This whole case just gets weirder and weirder as time goes by.

 

[BBB167893]

"I've often wondered if he joined the coverup that morning not out of love for Patsy, but because he suspected she'd made him an unwilling accomplice and he was being extremely cautious. That note was full of threats and he knew who wrote it the instant he saw it. Then when the medical evidence came out - the vaginal injury, the massive head blow - he was trapped. If he tried to turn Patsy in and extricate himself, who would believe him?"

It's not just that. Remember, he'd been married once before. He ruined his first marriage by fooling around on his wife. He got caught. They ALL get caught. Know why? 'Cause they think they won't! And this is a man who, by all accounts, had the same attitude toward life as Woltz in "The Godfather:" "A man in my position cannot afford to look ridiculous!" For him to pin it on Patsy, he would have to admit, to the world and himself, that he RUINED his first marriage only to marry a monster, and that he could have stopped it if he had paid attention to the signs. That's hard to take.

"And if she used his shirt to add fibers...I wonder if incriminating John was Patsy's Plan B, in case the intruder thing didn't take."

Maybe.

 

[LinasK]

I still wonder how his shirt fibers ended up on JB's underwear. Was he framed?

It's simple, IMO, his shirt fibers ended up there because he molested JB that night.

 

[Britt]

It's simple, IMO, his shirt fibers ended up there because he molested JB that night.

Well it wouldn't surprise me at all. Maybe he did.

I just think the evidence and behavior in this case suggests that Patsy was working alone till about the time she called 911...

One of my theories has been that she was working alone, but it was after John molested JB and he had no idea what Patsy had done till morning. Hence his "I'm sorry I'm so sorry" the next day to his friends.

 

[narlacat]

Well it wouldn't surprise me at all. Maybe he did.

I just think the evidence and behavior in this case suggests that Patsy was working alone till about the time she called 911...

One of my theories has been that she was working alone, but it was after John molested JB and he had no idea what Patsy had done till morning. Hence his "I'm sorry I'm so sorry" the next day to his friends.

How does that theory go Britt?
Are you saying the poor girl was molested by her Dad and then killed by her mother for something else, like toileting issues?
Seems awfully bad luck for her that one person molests her, then another actually kills her...
I'm thinking it makes more sense for the abuse and the murder to have been carried out by the same person, but I could be wrong.

 

[Britt]

How does that theory go Britt?
Are you saying the poor girl was molested by her Dad and then killed by her mother for something else...

No, not exactly... more like, the two things are related... example: JB tries to tell her mom what daddy did, and mom (who may herself have been molested as a child) freaks, goes into denial mode, rage takes over, struggle ensues... something like that.

I'm thinking it makes more sense for the abuse and the murder to have been carried out by the same person...

Me, too, and I think it was Patsy... but I consider other theories, too. John's I'm so sorrys has always bothered me. What was he so sorry for?

 

[narlacat]

No, not exactly... more like, the two things are related... example: JB tries to tell her mom what daddy did, and mom (who may herself have been molested as a child) freaks, goes into denial mode, rage takes over, struggle ensues... something like that.


Me, too, and I think it was Patsy... but I consider other theories, too. John's I'm so sorrys has always bothered me. What was he so sorry for?

Well, it could just be taken in the context of...I couldn't save my little girl when she was right under my nose in my own house...sorry he took a sleeping pill and didn't hear anything etc...
But I'm with you, that comment has always bothered me too.

The JR molesting his daughter and PR happening upon it is one of my fave theories, makes sense of why he would lawyer his first wife up so quickly..what did she have to hide?

 

[LinasK]

The JR molesting his daughter and PR happening upon it is one of my fave theories, makes sense of why he would lawyer his first wife up so quickly..what did she have to hide?

Abuse of his older daughter??? I'm suspicious that he kept her photo in the bathroom, Michael Jackson liked to hide his *advertiser censored* in the bathroom too...

 

[Nehemiah]

...makes sense of why he would lawyer his first wife up so quickly..what did she have to hide?

Perhaps he didn't want her talking about where/what JAR was doing on Christmas night.

 

[OceanEyes]

Maybe she folded the top down? Do we know if they were folded when she was found? Or were they on like the ones in the pictures? I have a few pairs of pajama shorts that are too big/baggy in the crotch area, and sometimes I roll the waistband over a few times. This would make the waistband tighter (slightly) and make the crotch part come up.

 

[BBB167893]

I'm not sure I follow you, OceanEyes.

"It's simple, IMO, his shirt fibers ended up there because he molested JB that night."

LinasK, you and aussiesheila would LOVE my brother! He combines the best(?) of both theories!

(When he heard that shirt fibers bit, it was like manna from heaven!)

"No, not exactly... more like, the two things are related... example: JB tries to tell her mom what daddy did, and mom (who may herself have been molested as a child) freaks, goes into denial mode, rage takes over, struggle ensues... something like that."

It's sad, Britt, narlacat, but most mothers tend to blame the victim.

"The JR molesting his daughter and PR happening upon it is one of my fave theories, makes sense of why he would lawyer his first wife up so quickly..what did she have to hide?"

It's the one that fits the most puzzle pieces together, isn't it?

"I'm suspicious that he kept her photo in the bathroom"

You and a million other people, LinasK!

 

[Britt]

The JR molesting his daughter and PR happening upon it is one of my fave theories, makes sense of why he would lawyer his first wife up so quickly..what did she have to hide?

Good question, though it could've just been that John didn't want anyone in the family talking to cops about the family wingnut (Patsy)... like one of those gothic stories where no one tells about the loony relative they keep locked in the attic, the "attic" in this case being lawyers, (hired) guns and money.

 

[sandraladeda]

The remainder of the pack of size-12's were handed in to the BPD at a much later date, was it years? by Ramsey PI's. This naturally witheld evidence.

I hate to state the obvious, but what the hell is wrong with the BPD/prosecutors office that they can't figure out what a group of (clever) amateurs can here at WS?

Remember in the interviews Patsy states she placed the remainder of the size-12's into JonBenet's panty drawer in the bathroom, yet not only were none discovered. The Ramsey PI's rolled up later claiming look what we found, a pack of size-12's!

What the heck was their explanation as to where the pack was unearthed? Were they even questioned on this?

Couldn't capable investigators perhaps determine if the pack of size 12 undies belatedly volunteered by the RST was actually of the right "vintage", that is, with a UPC code, or dye lots, or something? As opposed to a package sneakily purchased a year or 2 after the murder?