Size 12 Panties

[why_nutt]

JonBenét would. She was a 6 year old girl, and they love to emulate older girls. Size 12 day-of-the-week panties would be very attractive to a girl that age.

And they were.

JonBenét chose to wore them, and she did.

I doubt JonBenet chose them because they were large. Does a six-year-old child really have a sense of commercial clothing sizes and the differences between them? And if JonBenet was that much into wearing "big girl" clothing, why would nobody be claiming that JonBenet was always known to raid Patsy's own underwear drawer? Obviously Patsy was a Big Girl to JonBenet, and Patsy's clothing was available constantly to JonBenet well before the size 12 panties were ever bought. Nobody has even said JonBenet was inclined to dress up in Patsy's high heels or pageant gowns and sashes. No, other than the underwear anomaly, JonBenet is always depicted wearing clothing sized for herself. Sometimes, as in the 1993 and 1994 Christmas videos, JonBenet is seen wearing clothing somewhat too small for her; in 1993 she can be seen wearing a nightgown which fits, while in 1994 she is wearing the same nightgown, now with its sleeves too short and creeping up her arms.

 

[little1]

I'll be happy to explain it to you, LP.
Any Person capable of flying into a harmful rage because of "bed wetting" would also be capable of flying into the same type of rage because someone opened-without asking, a package of clothing that was meant to be given as a gift for someone else.

That's a fact of life LovelyPigeon, not exclusive to just the Ramsey situation.

In the Ramsey case, the timing is also right. If JonBenet opened the "gift panties" and wore them all day, Patsy might not have discovered that (which brought on a rage incident) until she was getting JB undressed and ready for bed.

Do you have any evidence tha PR ever "flew into a harmful rage?" Is their even anyone who has said that PR spanked either of her children?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I can't say that I've ever known a case where little girls wanted to dress up in their mother's panties--but other lingerie items would be great fun for them to "borrow" and play in.

Mothers' clothes wouldn't work at all for children to actually wear, but only to play in. An older child's clothing, though--new panties from a package--that would be another story.

I have a friend who has 2 daughters aged 6 and 10. I'll ask what sizes underwear they wear, and if the sizes are 6 and 12, I'll borrow 2 pair to compare the actual measurements of them.

And I don't think JonBenét was tiny for her age. She was "just right".

 

[tipper]

I was just at Walmart and had an extra minute. The waist size recommended for size 6 is 22" and for 12 is 25". That seemed to hold true for all manufacturers. Interestingly on the one kind that was on hangers - if you held them against each other the size 12 was about 1/2" longer from end to end across the waist than the 6. The suggested weight ranges were all over the place but there seemed to be a fairly generous span within each size. One size 6 I looked at had a 17lb weight range! Given that for the elastic to work it has to be stretched I think JonBenet could have worn the 12s albeit they would have been somewhat roomy.

 

[Toltec]

JonBenet was thin for her age...just look at her in her Vegas outfit. As BlueCrab noted, there were only size 4 and 6 panties in JonBenet's panty drawer, and a normal sized child usually wear age-appropriate sizes...JonBenet was six therefore she wore a size 6 panty. I have umpteenth nieces and have never had to buy panties outside their age group.

I don't know where my post went but I wanted to discuss JonBenet's SOILED play pants found on the floor, turned inside out. Where were the soiled panties...or did JonBenet even change panties when she dressed for the Whites dinner party?

Lets say JonBenet gets home and Patsy gets her ready for bed. She discovers that JonBenet's panties are soiled and decides then to bathe her before bedtime. A fight ensues and JonBenet gets bashed in the head. Patsy removes JonBenet's soiled panties and wipes her down...then decides to put brand new "Wednesday" panties on her?

Why would Patsy put new "Wednesday" panties on? Was it because it was Christmas?

 

[less0305]

I have to agree that I think someone inside the home was responsible for the size 12 panties. I just can't see an intruder finding a pack of unopened panties stashed away for a gift and opening the pack and taking one out to put on JB. It just doesn't seem plausible. But I can see PR putting them on JB or JB putting them on herself. That's seems more likely.

 

[tipper]

According to the calculator I used JonBent was in the 51st percentile for weight and the 79th for height. That is using Meyer's 45lb weight estimate and the 47" measured height.

 

[Shylock]

Do you have any evidence tha PR ever "flew into a harmful rage?" Is their even anyone who has said that PR spanked either of her children?

Why would I need any? Is there some law of nature I don't know about that says a person who doesn't spank their children isn't capable of flying into a harmful rage? Sorry, but people reach a breaking point and act crazy every day. Some of those people have no prior history to indicate they would ever reach that point.

Besides that, we know Patsy was a weird bird. Normal mothers don't put their kids into child beauty pageants. Normal adults don't have open houses and lay out all their old trophy awards for people to see. Normal people don't stage their own personal high school reunion so they can post old photos of themself and display their old pageant trophies for all of their schoolmates to see.

 

[Shylock]

I was just at Walmart and had an extra minute. The waist size recommended for size 6 is 22" and for 12 is 25". That seemed to hold true for all manufacturers. Interestingly on the one kind that was on hangers - if you held them against each other the size 12 was about 1/2" longer from end to end across the waist than the 6. The suggested weight ranges were all over the place but there seemed to be a fairly generous span within each size. One size 6 I looked at had a 17lb weight range! Given that for the elastic to work it has to be stretched I think JonBenet could have worn the 12s albeit they would have been somewhat roomy.

Good sleuthing Tipper. It sounds like the key to whether the size-12 would fit her was how much stretch the material would have had.

 

[twilight]

As staging those panties do two things:

A) provide a degraded DNA sample
B) set the time of death as Wednesday.

Ask who needed to point to Wednesday as the day she died?

It wouldn't serve any purpose for an intruder. The Rams would already know when they last saw her alive. However, to assist their story of when they last saw her alive, Wedneday helps.

I still say no one saw JB on Xmas day, but JR, PR, BR, (maybe) and the Whites. The Whites are saying nothing, and the Rams are saying too much. Who to believe? Depends on what Whites' story is, other than sealed?

 

[Britt]

Why would Patsy put new "Wednesday" panties on?

In order to pass them off as the same panties JonBenet had been wearing all day.

JB "fell asleep in the car," remember? "Zonked" out, came home asleep and "never woke up," remember? And then The Intruder got her.

Naturally she was found wearing the same panties she'd been wearing all day - panties that had been witnessed by who knows how many people who could testify to it. It'd only take one witness to expose a staging lie. How would it look if someone who'd seen JB's Wednesday panties (i.e. anyone who helped her in the bathroom at the Whites) told police she'd been wearing Wednesday panties, but was found wearing different panties? What, the intruder changed her clothes? The RST might buy it, but no one else would.

The stager probably figured: who's gonna notice what size the panties are? There's a terrorist kidnap victim here! Who's gonna notice the superficial props - loose wrist cord, useless duct tape, panties that don't fit perfectly - when they're distracted by the horrible crime scene and there's a kidnapper to chase?

And furthermore... what Twilight says about the DNA - excellent point.

 

[BlueCrab]

JonBenet apparently had worn two different pair of underwear on the 25th (not including the size 12's) and they may or may not have had "Wednesday" on them since JonBenet didn't care about days of the week :

TOM HANEY: "Did JonBenet have panties with the names of each day of the week on it?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "YES."

TOM HANEY: " OKAY. And did she wear those according to the day of the week or was it just kind of ---"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Just whatever."

TOM HANEY: "Did she know, pay much attention to what day of the week it was?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "No."

TOM HANEY: "So what ever would come out of the drawer?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."

.....

TRIP DeMUTH: "After she bathed though on the 24th, she would have had clean underwear on after that?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Oh yeah. I am sure she would have had clean underwear on the 25th, though, she'd just not have taken a bath."

TRIP DeMUTH: "She would have changed them Christmas morning?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Or Christmas afternoon, getting dressed."

JMO

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Neighborhood children came over to the Ramseys house during the day on Dec 25, to look at their Santa gifts and play, and to tell about they'd gotten for Christmas. Both JonBenét and Burke played outside with neighborhood children that day.

The Whites weren't the only ones at the Whites' house for dinner that night, either. They had guests from California, including Priscilla's parents and her sister.

There were also photographs taken by the Whites that night, which Fleet turned over to the police in the form of film and the police had developed.

It's just silly to claim that "no one" saw JonBenét alive and well on Christmas day 1996.

 

[tipper]

...

I still say no one saw JB on Xmas day, but JR, PR, BR, (maybe) and the Whites. The Whites are saying nothing, and the Rams are saying too much. Who to believe? Depends on what Whites' story is, other than sealed?

And the others at the White's party and didn't she help deliver one basket on the way home? I can't remember...

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Christmas afternoon, when changing clothes to go to the Whites', is when Patsy believes that JonBenét put on the size 12 Wednesday panties.

 

[little1]

Why would I need any? Is there some law of nature I don't know about that says a person who doesn't spank their children isn't capable of flying into a harmful rage? Sorry, but people reach a breaking point and act crazy every day. Some of those people have no prior history to indicate they would ever reach that point.

Besides that, we know Patsy was a weird bird. Normal mothers don't put their kids into child beauty pageants. Normal adults don't have open houses and lay out all their old trophy awards for people to see. Normal people don't stage their own personal high school reunion so they can post old photos of themself and display their old pageant trophies for all of their schoolmates to see.

I disagree.

 

[BlueCrab]

Christmas afternoon, when changing clothes to go to the Whites', is when Patsy believes that JonBenét put on the size 12 Wednesday panties.

LP,

Do you have a source for Patsy believing that? Or is that a question? Or is it a guess?

Patsy has already stated in other interviews that JonBenet wearing size 12 panties would be out of the ordinary.

JMO

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Christmas is also "out of the ordinary". Perfect time for wearing some finery--like size 12 Wednesday big-girl panties.

TRIP DeMUTH: "After she bathed though on the 24th, she would have had clean underwear on after that?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Oh yeah. I am sure she would have had clean underwear on the 25th, though, she'd just not have taken a bath."

TRIP DeMUTH: "She would have changed them Christmas morning?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Or Christmas afternoon, getting dressed."

 

[Toltec]

Christmas is also "out of the ordinary". Perfect time for wearing some finery--like size 12 Wednesday big-girl panties.

TRIP DeMUTH: "After she bathed though on the 24th, she would have had clean underwear on after that?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Oh yeah. I am sure she would have had clean underwear on the 25th, though, she'd just not have taken a bath."

TRIP DeMUTH: "She would have changed them Christmas morning?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Or Christmas afternoon, getting dressed."

That could be the case...but what I want to address is the soiled panties JonBenet took off. The police noted soiled pants turned inside out...but where are the soiled panties?

Let's say JonBenet changed her underwear...could JonBenet (who could not read) have picked the undies spelled WEDNESDAY????

Did JonBenet KNOW it was WEDNESDAY?

Could JonBenet READ WEDNESDAY?

 

[tipper]

I would think so. All she really needed to read was the W to know she had the right day.