South Africa - Susan Rohde, 47, murdered, Stellenbosch, 24 July 2016

[JudgeJudi]

LVN begins by reminding defence forensic pathologist Dr Reggie Perumal about the case he mentioned yesterday in which the court was dissatisfied with his testimony.

[Note that the Van der Spuy referred to in the other case is not the same as the VDS in this case]

Perumal says he can't argue with what the court thought of his testimony in another case. LVN asks him to reflect on the matter and accept the opinion of the other professional.

Perumal: "I would welcome any expert to disagree with my opinion. I am not going to fight with anybody with a different view. That's what medicine is. To consider facts".

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[JudgeJudi]

 

[JudgeJudi]

LVN moves to the thyroid cartilage horn and whether it was incised or fractured. Defence lawyer Graham van der Spuy (VDS) objects to some of the exhibits the State has submitted and comments written on them.

VDS: If we go through all the exhibits, they all contain extra little comments or suggestions. No scientific expert has been placed before the court. This is not evidence. This is a post-effort to slip and sneak in comments, directives, suggestions.

VDS: What is the intention of all these comments? Many of them have not even been canvassed with the witnesses so far. State replies that it is not sneaking in evidence. LVN: "It is argument, inferential reasoning".

Judge says she will decide on the weight to attach to any of these exhibits in her judgment. Prosecutor can continue with cross-exam.

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[patCee]

Have to admit that I drifted off during Perumal's evidence. He seemed less dogmatic, to use his word, than I expected, and open to contradiction on several issues. I'm not sure that quoting other experts so often inspires confidence in such an experienced pathologist, he's not writing a thesis. It'll be interesting how the prosecution deals with this.

 

[JudgeJudi]

LVN: Dr Coetzee-Khan was not incompetent in any way when he presented findings on thyroid cartilage horn and saying there was no incision.

Perumal is shown a photo of the thyroid cartilage being held in gloved hands. It is being projected above Jason's head.

Perumal says the photoof thyroid cartilage is not clear and he can't comment on whether there is an incision or not. The next photo comes up and he says it is very pixelated and still can't say much.

On the magnified photo, Perumal says there is no visible incision in a part of the thyroid.

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[JudgeJudi]

Perumal: "I can't say that I am disputing completely the fracture, because it certainly is an injury one can find, the commonest injury someone can find in cases of hanging." But normally should be hemorrhaging if there is a fracture.

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Wow. LVN is referring to Perumal's opinion in HvB trial.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Just to note: The thyroid cartilage is key to State's case for manual strangulation and murder charge. State pathologist Dr Coetzee-Khan found left horn of cartilage was fractured, indicating "a hand being applied to the neck with a squeezing type of action"

Perumal concludes: "When I saw that cartilage at time I did the examination, it just looked too clean cut for me."

LVN now turns to Perumal giving his expert opinion in the Henri van Breda murder trial. He gave his 6-page opinion to the Western Cape High Court in May 2017. Said during evidence in chief that he handed it in to interpret scientific evidence.

VDS jumps up and says he was told by State he would be emailed the lengthy Henri van Breda judgment but hasn't got it yet. "I have a problem with this witness being cross-examined until I have had sight of this judgment".

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[JudgeJudi]

LVN on Perumal's involvement in Henri van Breda trial: It became clear, and one can read judgment from Judge Desai, that the defence, based on your assistance, disputed three aspects,

LVN says in "fairness", he will come back to Henri van Breda questioning when there is a copy of the judgment for defence.

LVN turns to other cases Perumal mentioned in court he had worked on. One was death of Zim vice-president Solomon Mujuru, other was death of former SA cricketer Tertius Bosch. LVN says courts never adjudicated his expert opinion so not relevant.

LVN mentions more cases Perumal worked on and Perumal accepts his opinion was not adjudicated on. VDS springs up and says he doesn't know if State is doing some form of character assassination. "What is my learned friend trying to achieve by this?"

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I’m finding this very strange. I've never seen counsel, either State or Defence, referencing numerous trials where a witness has/has not testified and pointing out where evidence has been disregarded etc.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Judge says she doesn't perceive that the State is assassinating the character of Perumal because he has set out these cases in his CV. She will decide from cross-exam what value to attach to his opinion.

[OK, that makes sense now. Not having seen his CV, I couldn't understand why this was happening]

LVN: Perumal's opinion is being examined. It's not a character assassination at all. Judge: "From the CV I got the impression that Dr Perumal is extremely experienced in forensic pathologist and particularly court proceedings."

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Adjourned for a few minutes.

 

[Tortoise]

The state in van Breda read through judgements in which Olckers had been criticized.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Housekeeping matters ... We will have a short tea adjournment until 11:30am, sit until 12:30, break for lunch and then continue with the trial at 14:00.

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[JudgeJudi]

The state in van Breda read through judgements in which Olckers had been criticized.

I only recall Desai referencing previous matters.

ETA Yes you're right.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Judge wants to address VDS. She says it has come to her attention that he has been very aggressive and rude with court staff. "I implore of you to conduct yourself in a matter which behooves an officer of the court."

Judge to VDS: "Court staff perform vital functions and we should afford them the greatest respect". VDS rejects that assertion absolutely... "I do conduct myself with great courtesy at all times".

Judge says VDS clearly believes he is courteous but this is not the case. VDS says it seems as though the judge believes their version of him being rude, not his version. Judge says she will not entertain this.

Background on what judge raised with defence lawyer: Before court started this morning, orderly asked if stenographer was ready. VDS said he was not. Orderly said he was not addressing him. VDS said he wanted to let him know he was not ready.

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I wish we had the train wreck smiley for this.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Judge asks if Jason would like to sit next to attorney, where he can see the slides up on the wall. He does so.

Photo shows Susan's face. LVN asks if it's graze/abrasion or laceration at left eye? Perumal says deeper graze or superficial laceration, the result of blunt force trauma. Either object impacted corner of left eye or left eye impacted object.

Perumal is shown photos of abrasion between Susan's eye and eyebrow, as well as blood splatter above. LVN asks what would have caused it. Perumal says he can't claim to be blood splatter expert but does have reasonable knowledge.

LVN wants to know if spatter is indication of significant force applied. Perumal says blood splatter above eye has no particular shape. Usually would form "tadpole" shape. "I can't see blood splatter in form of tadpoles to enable me to give direction".

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[JudgeJudi]

LVN takes red laser pointer to highlight abrasion and tiny dark red droplets above it. "Do you agree that's blood?" Perumal agrees it is dried blood and source is from abrasion. But not convinced it's as a result of impact.

LVN says that Jason's version is that his wife fell while they were arguing at Spier hotel. "There is a very low retaining wall, a bit of scrubbery. If that could cause wound on the left eye, in what direction would spatter go?"

Perumal says if orbital ridge had impacted on any blunt objects, that would create a wound but would not see splatter. "It would have to be impact on blood source". He also can't say which direction.

Perumal says it is possible Susan could have sustained wound by falling on wall. “It is more likely something more broad that would have caused this because if she fell, I am more likely to see a deeper laceration.”

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[patCee]

JJ 825 "Perumal says the photo of thyroid cartilage is not clear and he can't comment on whether there is an incision or not. The next photo comes up and he says it is very pixelated and still can't say much.

On the magnified photo, Perumal says there is no visible incision in a part of the thyroid."

I know he was referring to a photo above, but he was very clear here and I expected him to say so:-

"Perumal, who authored a chapter in a book on violence against women and children, said there was an "enormous onus" to do this dissection where a female victim had died and where there were fresh and healing injuries.

He said he had found no evidence of smothering.

After an X-ray and CT-scan, he also concluded that, apart from a bit of bleeding, the hyoid bone (which serves as an anchoring structure for the tongue) was entirely intact, without fractures."

Rohde’s pathologist challenges smothering, physical altercation findings

 

[JudgeJudi]

Perumal would have expected a broader contact surface and a deeper and larger laceration with wall fall.

LVN asks if eye abrasion could be from fist. Perumal says he would have expected bruises. LVN asks fist with ring? Perumal says he can't exclude this wound from fist with ring but would expect lifted tissue.

LVN asking about the other abrasions and wounds on Susan's limbs. Perumal says he can't really comment on what would have caused these. Just that skin impacted object or vice versa.

LVN: We knew she was walking barefoot that night on tarred surface. On abrasions/wounds to Susan's feet, Perumal says it is possible that she walked and kicked something or walked and fell.

Team News24 (@TeamNews24) | Twitter

 

[JudgeJudi]

From Knight's Forensic Pathology

 

[JudgeJudi]

LVN: In your opinion, would all the wounds be related to that fall coming back from the room or can it also be that at different stages, those wounds had been sustained at different times? Defence objects and says Jason's version of fall was not mentioned.

VDS: "The fall did not occur as it has been put to this witness". Judge asks State to specify what injuries it is referring to during questions and to also state Jason's version. LVN says Perumal knows this version and he will not mislead him.

Perumal says all the injuries from "fall" are blunt force injuries. "I would say most if not all of abrasions could be as a result of the incident described by the accused except possibly for bruise on the wrist".

Perumal: For bruise on wrist, if she had fallen on rough surface, it would more likely have resulted in abrasion, Either if he struck out at her, injuring her in the process, or if he restrained her, that could result [in that wound].

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[JudgeJudi]

LVN: Are you still comfortable with your opinion on cause of death. Perumal: No my lady. I said it is consistent with ligature strangulation. It definitely isn't the only cause of death I entertain.

Perumal: "The findings in the neck could well be the result of throttling and manual strangulation. There are two competing causes. The injuries that we see could be seen in both scenarios."

Perumal: Becuase of appearance if ligature mark and saliva, I favoured hanging as more likely. But there is no way I can stand before this court and say manual strangulation is excluded beyond any reasonable doubt.

Perumal says he cannot make a finding based just on the autopsy. LVN asks why he didn't put this qualification in his report. Perumal says it is standard to say that injuries are "consistent" with a cause of death, not to mention all possible causes.

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