Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

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RickshawFan said:
I would venture to bet not all those cars in the parking lot were coming and going. Maybe just the ones randomly parked. I don't think France allows you to be out and about.
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I have family living in France. They are allowed out with restricted distances/reasons for being out, exercise (walking) is one of those. They have to fill out a form with these reasons to show if stopped. That rule has recently been relaxed.
 
stmarysmead said:
Insightful post...thank you. You are touching on one aspect of this case that intrigues me...and that’s how to interpret the few clues we have ...when we do not know the actual dynamics of the relationship between Dan and Esther.

I’m not questioning their love for each other...but with their lives suddenly in the glare of the media, how much are they holding back...out of love, loyalty, desire for privacy? Dan says their last conversation was one of missing each other and Esther looking forward to coming home.

But Esther has been supposed to come home several times before and instead changed her mind. I’m believing that this was absolutely a loving devoted relationship. But Covid and quarantine had admittedly created issues. There was much to discuss about their mutual differences in how to go forward. Esther may have believed that this was her last bit of freedom in the mountains for a very long time.

Maybe, as you point out...there was something of a ‘You can’t catch me” in the comment about almost seeing Dan. Maybe the last conversation was about missing each other, yes, but with pressure from Dan to wind this trek of hers up. Maybe she sent a photo instead of calling the next day...instead of having to debate the issue again. Maybe he took her 3 plus days of no communication like a loving parent with a stubborn, determined-to-have-her-way offspring.

Now is he going to put this all out into the public domain? “I didn’t raise the alarm because this is what she’d do when she didn't want to argue or do what I was asking her to do. A lack of communication is Esther avoiding confrontation.”

No, I don’t think so.

This is why we have contradictory statements. ‘ She ALWAYS kept us informed. She called all the time, several times a day.” But neither her Mother or Dan was concerned until 3 1/2 days past.

I’m thinking also about all the ways this pandemic was undercutting this nomadic life she loved. Lockdowns. Cooped up in a small camper. Seems like they’d already left the dogs in UK. Is their rental property in London or one of the hardest hit areas? Is that income stream still functioning? They’d already lived six years on their savings.

There’s a mention in one interview of Dan’s health issues being a reason he’d like to settle down. Does he now need to be closer to medical providers?

Esther was returning to very small quarters, quarantine, masks...with no end in sight...so very different from the freedom, far away from everything the world was facing...that she was feeling on her trek.
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Thanks Stmarysmead, and yes I'm feeling all that. Lol - "catch me if you can" - that's exactly what I was thinking. All relationships are so complex. I'm sure it's been said, but understanding her motivations might help pin down her actions.

Just to add that I'm impressed by the expertise and insights shown in comments about routes, terrain, experience, equipment, etc - the solution is clearly to be found in all of this together.
 
ZaZara said:
The grandson is 7 years old. This is mentioned in various reports. Happy reading in 2021!
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Ah - thanks ZaZara, I'd missed that along the way. The details of sleuthing may not be my strong point!
 
patCee said:
I don't have a broad grasp of the different routes ED could have taken, and the clear understanding of how they relate to each other, directions etc. like some on here. Do the many cars parked at the ski resort, indicate ED could have encountered various cars being driven in and out of the area on one of the tracks/road if she was returning to Benasque? Also there may well be some people at the ski resort who like to fit in some hiking, regardless of the time of year.
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Hi patCee. I know that RickshawFan and ZaZara have already responded to some of your questions here. But as well, I thought I'd repost this fairly new map that Ruthbullock and I put together to help define the landmarks we keep referencing with respect to trails and roads, etc. The ski area (with the web cam) is on the France side up at the top of this little map. So that could be one option for ED to find civilization if she needed help, wanted to abort her hike, or purposely was planning to be there. The other obvious route out for any of those reasons would be on the Spain side, down in the bottom right corner, back to Banasque where her van was.
 

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otto said:
Lockdown is hard, but the sooner everyone does their part to reduce transmission, the sooner we can return to normal life.
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Ironically, a certain number of political leaders in the US who advocate strict lock down measures have trouble following their own rules. Still other US public officials order businesses closures- but keep businesses they own open as "essential".
 
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otto said:
I don't see any people, and the lift is not moving.

Apical Technologies - Neos 360 - Panoramique HD
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The lifts aren’t allowed to be used, but the resort and hotel are reopening on the 7th Jan- it may well be a few locals day tripping and seasonal staff who were stuck there who have vehicles in the car park. When I looked this morning there were some people at the far right of the car park when I zoomed in. It’s not a continuous webcam, it refreshes the view every so often- at a guess maybe every 30 minutes.
 
Quietey said:
I've just realised that there is a "historique" button - only just seen it! There is nothing for 23/11, but 22/11 looks deserted.
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Great find, Quiety! For me though, I could see images for 11/23, but not 11/22: "Il n’y a pas d’historique pour le 22/11/2020, merci de choisir un autre jour" or in English, per Google, "There is no history for 11/22/2020, please choose another day". There are many other days with no data, so I don't think the lack of images on 11/22 means anything at all. But it is too bad! That said, I wonder if it would be worth our while to study the images from 11/23 and 11/24, looking for anything of interest, like ED.

Go here... Apical Technologies - Neos 360 - Panoramique HD... look for the little calendar icon in the middle of the screen, under the image... pick your date!
 
RedHaus said:
Great find, Quiety! For me though, I could see images for 11/23, but not 11/22: "Il n’y a pas d’historique pour le 22/11/2020, merci de choisir un autre jour" or in English, per Google, "There is no history for 11/22/2020, please choose another day". There are many other days with no data, so I don't think the lack of images on 11/22 means anything at all. But it is too bad! That said, I wonder if it would be worth our while to study the images from 11/23 and 11/24, looking for anything of interest, like ED.

Go here... Apical Technologies - Neos 360 - Panoramique HD... look for the little calendar icon in the middle of the screen, under the image... pick your date!
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Terrific find. Thank you!

Can’t help but notice that the weather remained quite nice in those first few days...after last contact but before she was reported missing.

Is an accident (in the short time after that last contact)...the solution to her disappearance...or with beautiful weather...did she wander on for days...and the answers lie far afield?
 
RedHaus said:
Great find, Quiety! For me though, I could see images for 11/23, but not 11/22: "Il n’y a pas d’historique pour le 22/11/2020, merci de choisir un autre jour" or in English, per Google, "There is no history for 11/22/2020, please choose another day". There are many other days with no data, so I don't think the lack of images on 11/22 means anything at all. But it is too bad! That said, I wonder if it would be worth our while to study the images from 11/23 and 11/24, looking for anything of interest, like ED.

Go here... Apical Technologies - Neos 360 - Panoramique HD... look for the little calendar icon in the middle of the screen, under the image... pick your date!
Click to expand...

Thanks! You're right about dates - oops, my error - I get carried away and overlook detail.

I did a quick google to see whether there are other cameras in the area and my first find was this - there may be others! There are a number of cameras here but fewer date options:

Luchon Superbagnères Webcams | Live Weather & Snow Conditions
 
stmarysmead said:
Is an accident (in the short time after that last contact)...the solution to her disappearance...or with beautiful weather...did she wander on for days...and the answers lie far afield?
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Sadly, though the answer may lie relatively far afield if she reached lower elevations and got disoriented trying to find say a paved road or an unpaved logging road to a village, I dont think she had the strength to wander for days.

Rickshaw related that even with clear weather, she would have needed to spend a bitterly cold night at a higher elevation with damp clothes and little protection. This alone risked hypothermia which Tanzenite related, can occur very quickly in some cases.

Though the night was probably fundamentally survivable (assuming no rapid hypothermia on set or slip / fall), I think it would have left Esther, and nearly anybody else debilitated.

That would lead to the next challenge of recovering from the night, and moving efficiently to lower elevations and help. In this, I think the overall background of the individual could be key.

A rested, well nourished individual in very good physical condition (does not need to be a professional athlete or Special Forces soldier per se) who did not suffer rapid hypothermia the first night could likely power through debilitation, partial hypothermia and mental / physical exhaustion and start moving effectively towards help.

For these individuals, even a second night at lower elevation would likely be survivable- again, assuming over all dry clothes. I don't think (though I could be very wrong) a person could wander past a third day in the area at increasingly lower elevations before seeing signs of civilization and help.

But.... unlike say, a hypothetical amateur athlete, Esther may have been facing additional physical challenges including: a long term nutrition deficit, being relatively fatigued prior to even starting out, and not having an exceptional level of fitness. All of this could limit the amount of ground she could cover if she avoided hypothermia on the first night.
 
Cryptic said:
But.... unlike say, a hypothetical amateur athlete, Esther may have been facing additional physical challenges including: a long term nutrition deficit, being relatively fatigued prior to even starting out, and not having an exceptional level of fitness. All of this could limit the amount of ground she could cover if she avoided hypothermia on the first night.
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RSBM and BBM

Do you have any evidence to back this assertion up?? There may be questions over her attitude to risk, but her fitness?

  • In her school years she represented Great Britain in rowing.
  • In the summer of 2020 she did extensive climbing in the Alps with Dan.
  • On her most recent tour she had spent almost a month climbing many peaks many of us on here would not be able to climb once
 
stmarysmead said:
I’m guessing there has to be a legal explanation for all the cars in the parking lot. If I were running a business flouting the pandemic lockdown, I’d certainly disable the webcam.
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You can check France's lockdown rules upthread. There is currently a curfew and no skiing.
 
otto said:
Parts of Canada have full lockdown right now. There is no indoor socializing except within a family unit that lives together. Those who live alone are allowed one social bubble. There are rules for outdoor socializing. Some people violate the rules and there are arrests.

Essential workers are grocery stores, medical facilities, personal medical care such as physiotherapists, restaurant take out, pet supplies, delivery services, liquor stores, etc. with limits of 15% capacity.

In France, lockdown in November restricted how far people could travel and how long they could be outside the home. Esther found a way around the lockdown by crossing the border to Spain and then planning to hike into France.

There were no hikers on the French side of the border and few hikers on the Spain side, so only one witness. French SAR had to break lockdown to search for her, which they did until the weather changed. She pushed the boundaries to the extent that no one knows when or where she vanished. Had she respected the lockdown when she was in France, she would be alive today. Lockdown is hard, but the sooner everyone does their part to reduce transmission, the sooner we can return to normal life.
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Indeed, her choice to start in Spain rather than France (at the Hospice), might well have led to a disaster. The odds of making it safely were much slimmer. My reasoning is ^^^.
 
Quietey said:
I've just realised that there is a "historique" button - only just seen it! There is nothing for 23/11, but 22/11 looks deserted.
Click to expand...
Could you do a screen shot and post it?
 
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