Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[patCee]

It has been speculated that she fell while crossing an icy stretch of Mount Maladeta, close to the Spanish town of Benasque, where Esther had parked her camper van and set out on a five-day solo hike.

I remember the glacier being mentioned briefly way back, but it's not an area that seemed to be part of her general route back and forth to the Sauvegardi, or was it? If not maybe a diversion before returning to the van to prepare the journey home. I know the refuge was part of a possible circular hike with a trail off to the Sauvegardi summit. I admit not to havinga clear perspective of the glacier and Mt Maladeta.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I tend to think that DC, SAR & many posters here are likely correct in the area narrowed down to where Esther disappeared and is likely to be found.

In my very limited personal experience of SAR searching on the ground as well as following cases here, the missing person is often - eventually - found within the search area, or very close to it even after time passes, especially when there is nothing nefarious suspected.

JMO, speculation, etc.

ETA: in case my speculative thoughts aren’t clear, I suspect Esther is still up in the mountains somewhere, not far from the route she planned to take. I only hope that she’s eventually found for her family’s sake. Not knowing is the worst.

 

[Rhomal]

I remember the glacier being mentioned briefly way back, but it's not an area that seemed to be part of her general route back and forth to the Sauvegardi, or was it? Was the ice due to the change in weather. If not maybe a diversion before returning to the van to prepare the journey home. I know the refuge was part of a possible circular hike with a trail off to the Sauvegardi summit. I admit to not to having a clear perspective of the glacier and Mt Maladeta.

It looks like a route to Maladeta from Sauvegardi could make a circular loop. The ice is there permanently but thaws somewhat in summer making it very dangerous with huge cracks. It seems it was notorious for experienced climbers coming to their peril and locals were afraid of the ice.

 

[Rhomal]

From wiki... Pierre Barrau, considered to be the leading climbing expert in the area, was killed in a crevice of the Maladeta glacier in 1824. As a result, locals became fearful of venturing out on the ice, considering it cursed. The movement of the glacier in 1931 exposed the body.

 

[Satchie]

Snipped for Focus

RickshawFan, I generally don't disagree with you. Missing hikers, climbers, etc. - even those very experienced and well prepared - are all too common and often have very sad endings. And certainly the Maine mountain environ is very different from the Pyrenees alpine environ.

However, my consideration in comparing these two cases is in part the similarities as to how the investigation unfolded and all the missing pieces of the puzzle, in part the similarities of two women hiking solo in fairly difficult situations, and of course the possibility that Esther got lost as Gerry did.

Even though the terrain should have been easier for Esther to navigate (i.e. line of sight), I have to wonder, IMO, whether she could have gotten disoriented and lost due to any number of reasons.

• @AuntiSeagul'spost #383 in Thread #1 described such possibilities for Esther: “... banalities, like cold, exhaustion, fatigue, dehydration, physical ilness [sic] setting in, or electrolyte imbalance (she asked for fruit while going up), that can cause confusion.”... and we can add loss of daylight too.
• @Atoz's post #14 in Thread #1 is also something to consider: “I've only walked across the Pyrenees once but I was impressed by how quickly the temperature dropped and also how quickly you can end up in disorienting clouds.” That too could have gotten Esther all turned around.

Further, I think we've all seen in Esther's FB posts that she, like Gerry, does have a history of getting lost (her bike ride story video posted up thread) and turned around on trails (following animal paths). But I am certainly not judging Esther for that - we all can get lost! I just observe this similarity.

Lastly, I'll end this post with a visual that continues to ring loudly in my head on this case. It was
@ZaZara's post #384 in Thread #1, “I'd say she disappeared somewhere between the top of the Salvaguardia and her campervan in Benasque and I would look for her among trees.”

For any number of incapacitating reasons, IMO, Esther may have decided not to go to Refuge de Vanasque. If she never made it through Port de Venasque, could she have gotten disoriented on her descent back to her van? Or like I've opined in Thread #1, IMO, could an incapacitated state taken her past the Refuge de Vanesque without stopping (perhaps in search of cell service to call Dan)? And if so, that would take her below tree line, possibly getting lost in a dense forest in the early evening of 11/22.

Just my two (maybe three!) cents.

I agree, and would add, from having followed other 'missing in the wild' cases, I have learned you must never assume that a person who has gone missing must have behaved completely rationally. "Why would they have done that, that would be irrational!" is not understanding that people in trouble, alone in the wilderness, are very unlikely to be thinking rationally, and that is their biggest problem and worst enemy.

 

[ZaZara]

I remember the glacier being mentioned briefly way back, but it's not an area that seemed to be part of her general route back and forth to the Sauvegardi, or was it? Was the ice due to the change in weather. If not maybe a diversion before returning to the van to prepare the journey home. I know the refuge was part of a possible circular hike with a trail off to the Sauvegardi summit. I admit to not to having a clear perspective of the glacier and Mt Maladeta.

The hike up the Salvaguardia is considered easy in the many descriptions that I have read.

The hike up the Maladeta is far more difficult and you need to bring crampons to cross the glacier. If the pictures are anything to go by, this is sprain-your-ankle territory, long before you reach the glacier.

If Esther was collecting mountains, she may have wanted to add the Maladeta to her achievements. But Esther didn't, on the contrary, she enjoyed to return to places that she liked. Hence twice the climb of the Salvaguardia.

There is also the matter of time. She had enough daylight left to reach the Refuge Venasque but not much more. If she decided to change her plans and go to another area to climb the Maladeta, wouldn't she have informed her partner at some time during the next 2 days?

IMO we have to take this story of the Maladeta glacier with a few grains of salt.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Another one here who doesn't understand the Maladeta thing. It's nowhere near where she was supposed to be, directionally opposite in fact. Esther would have had to cross a proper road to get to it, so it can't be that she got lost up on the mountains and accidentally wandered there.

UNLESS... she headed back down Sauvegarde on 22nd, slept the night at La Besurta (Plan d'Estan) for some reason, then decided on 23rd to hike back to her campervan. Maybe she dropped or broke her phone and realised she was off radar and needed to get back to civilisation asap.

Interested to know where this thought process came from. Is there any indication Esther headed south? Did anyone see her in that area? Or is it just that they're so sure she's not on the intended loop that they're considering a wider area?

Google Maps

 

[ZaZara]

Another one here who doesn't understand the Maladeta thing. It's nowhere near where she was supposed to be, directionally opposite in fact. Esther would have had to cross a proper road to get to it, so it can't be that she got lost up on the mountains and accidentally wandered there.

UNLESS... she headed back down Sauvegarde on 22nd, slept the night at La Besurta (Plan d'Estan) for some reason, then decided on 23rd to hike back to her campervan. Maybe she dropped or broke her phone and realised she was off radar and needed to get back to civilisation asap.

Interested to know where this thought process came from. Is there any indication Esther headed south? Did anyone see her in that area? Or is it just that they're so sure she's not on the intended loop that they're considering a wider area?

Google Maps

These are speculations and the source is unclear. I'm sticking to a mountain accident for the time being.

In the interview on Sud Radio, guide Lagleize only mentions the glaciers in the Alps. About the Pyrenees he says it takes up to 5 years to find a person, but IMO this has nothing to do with glaciers in the Pyrenees per se, only with the complications of the entire area (rocks, crevasses).

Here is the snippet:

Patrick Lagleize remains confident that Esther Dingley's body will one day be found. "In the glaciers of the Alps, the people who disappear are at the bottom of the glacier and reappear when the glacier goes down, that may take twenty to thirty years. In the Pyrenees, we end up finding the body within five years because there is someone who happens to be passing by there.

Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

 

[RedHaus]

Another one here who doesn't understand the Maladeta thing. It's nowhere near where she was supposed to be, directionally opposite in fact. Esther would have had to cross a proper road to get to it, so it can't be that she got lost up on the mountains and accidentally wandered there.

UNLESS... she headed back down Sauvegarde on 22nd, slept the night at La Besurta (Plan d'Estan) for some reason, then decided on 23rd to hike back to her campervan. Maybe she dropped or broke her phone and realised she was off radar and needed to get back to civilisation asap.

Interested to know where this thought process came from. Is there any indication Esther headed south? Did anyone see her in that area? Or is it just that they're so sure she's not on the intended loop that they're considering a wider area?

Google Maps

CoverMeGagney, you may be on to something. If ED dropped her phone while on or near the summit of Pic de Sauvegarde and could not safely retrieve it, IMO, she would decide to scrap her plans to stay at Refuge de Venasque on 11/22. It would be far too unsafe for her to continue without a phone on her multi-day trek. And ED's possible alternative stop that evening, IMO, could have been La Besurta if she had enough light to get there.

That change in plans might explain the LE's early search information that ED did not stay at Refuge de Venasque and likely was no longer in the mountains. Perhaps the ED search - tracking dogs - found evidence ED had stayed at La Besurta . And perhaps they have some evidence that she was on the trail from La Besurta to Maladeta. While I seriously doubt she would try scaling Maladeta without a phone, we cannot rule it out of course.

Anyhow, I am trying not to speculate too much, but rather reconnect old dots we've been trying to make sense of. This possibility of course still leaves open the unfortunate options already on the table - but just not on the French side. It also explains why she was not in contact, had no further phone pings, etc. after 4pm 11/22. And if the incident that caused her to disappear did not occur on her 11/22 descent from Pic de Sauvegarde, it could have occurred as she finished her descent to her van in Banasque on 11/23. And without a phone she had / has no way to call for help.

Sorry if I've ventured too far into speculation!

 

[BobbleBob]

change in plans might explain the LE's early search information that ED did not stay at Refuge de Venasque and likely was no longer in the mountains.

if the incident that caused her to disappear did not occur on her 11/22 descent from Pic de Sauvegarde, it could have occurred as she finished her descent to her van in Banasque on 11/23. And without a phone she had / has no way to call for help.

Snipped for clarity

RedHaus you’ve summed up my thoughts perfectly. It always seemed strange that ED never made it to Refuge de Venasque (as LE found no trace in the area), and I have been wondering did she decide to cut the hike short and to return to the van in Benasque for some reason.

 

[stmarysmead]

A few days before, she accepted a ride with the friendly stranger because the weather was changing and it was “too early” to just go to her planned destination in the mountains for the night. She opted to head back to her own camper bed and a hot meal instead.

Though she had cell service, did she advise Dan of her change in plans as they were occurring or just after she returned to the camper?

On the day of her disappearance, did she leave later that day in order to minimize her time in the Refuge again? Had she planned it so she’d get there just before sunset?

But if some issue caused her to change her plans after reaching the summit, could she have assumed that she could reach the camper before darkness set in? I feel she would have headed in that direction, having hiked it twice and been familiar with those surroundings...rather than set off on an unfamiliar route.

 

[patCee]

On the day of her disappearance, did she leave later that day in order to minimize her time in the Refuge again? Had she planned it so she’d get there just before sunset?

But if some issue caused her to change her plans after reaching the summit, could she have assumed that she could reach the camper before darkness set in? I feel she would have headed in that direction, having hiked it twice and been familiar with those surroundings...rather than set off on an unfamiliar route.

It seems to me there are 2 ways of looking at this. Setting off late may well indicate some hesitancy about her plans and the thought of sleeping alone at the Refuge. Her problem could have been the need to sleep out on the trail coming back down as it would be dark, albeit familiar. She'd used up her daylight going up so late.
On the other hand could she be feeling determined to achieve her plan, even if unsure, (a trait she previously described) conscious that it was her last day before returning home, and it would be an opportunity missed.

 

[ZaZara]

A few days before, she accepted a ride with the friendly stranger because the weather was changing and it was “too early” to just go to her planned destination in the mountains for the night. She opted to head back to her own camper bed and a hot meal instead.

Though she had cell service, did she advise Dan of her change in plans as they were occurring or just after she returned to the camper?

On the day of her disappearance, did she leave later that day in order to minimize her time in the Refuge again? Had she planned it so she’d get there just before sunset?

But if some issue caused her to change her plans after reaching the summit, could she have assumed that she could reach the camper before darkness set in? I feel she would have headed in that direction, having hiked it twice and been familiar with those surroundings...rather than set off on an unfamiliar route.

Esther left on November 21 for her trip of 2-3 days.
That was the day befor she had the last contact with Dan (November 22).

French LE established that she has not been at the Refuge.

It is not known where she stayed the night from 21 to 22 November, but it is not likely that she returned to the van. The hike from the Salvaguardia (where she was around midday on November 21) to Benasque is long.

 

[Grouse]

It seems to me there are 2 ways of looking at this. Setting off late may well indicate some hesitancy about her plans and the thought of sleeping alone at the Refuge. Her problem could have been the need to sleep out on the trail coming back down as it would be dark, albeit familiar. She'd used up her daylight going up so late.
On the other hand could she be feeling determined to achieve her plan, even if unsure, (a trait she previously described) conscious that it was her last day before returning home, and it would be an opportunity missed.

Esther mentioned on 19th, when she accepted the lift back, about not wanting to be arriving at a refuge too early and be just hanging around for the sake of it.

I think in light of that, her setting off late to arrive at the summit at 4PM makes perfect sense. Apparently it was a 90 minutes max descent time to Refuge de Venasque and there was sufficient daylight left to achieve that.

 

[ZaZara]

Esther mentioned on 19th, when she accepted the lift back, about not wanting to be arriving at a refuge too early and be just hanging around for the sake of it.

I think in light of that, her setting off late to arrive at the summit at 4PM makes perfect sense. Apparently it was a 90 minutes max descent time to Refuge de Venasque and there was sufficient daylight left to achieve that.

She did not want to hang out there from 02.00 o'clock on also because she would be wet from the rain, and it may have continued raining. No chance of making a tour of the surroundings or doing al fresco yoga.

It is not a consideration that she mentions, but trying to light a fire when it rains is difficult, and she would need that fire to dry her stuff and keep warm. The alternative would be to hide in her sleeping bag untill sunrise, for 16 hours

Still wondering where she slept on the night of 21 / 22 November.

 

[otto]

A Canadian man was recently lost while hiking. He stepped off a trail, lost his way in no time, jogged in one spot overnight for 13 hours, was spotted by helicopter the following day. Posting this to show how easy it happens.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/man-missing-near-nordegg-alta-located-rcmp-1.5839739

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the temperature at the summit (Pic de Sauvegarde) at 4PM on Nov 22, and at 4AM on Nov 23?

 

[Deleted member 277705]

I feel it would be extremely naïve to dismiss a mountain accident as being a probable cause of disappearance. Likewise, would it not be equally foolish to dismiss any possibility of third party involvement? ED's B/F and family, while not ruling out the former, certainly express concerns that the latter may be a likely factor. It is interesting that Mount Maladeta has been mentioned – interesting in the respect that the intention to go there has never been mentioned by ED in the last remaining days of her hike, whereas Luchon...

 

[otto]

She did not want to hang out there from 02.00 o'clock on also because she would be wet from the rain, and it may have continued raining. No chance of making a tour of the surroundings or doing al fresco yoga.

It is not a consideration that she mentions, but trying to light a fire when it rains is difficult, and she would need that fire to dry her stuff and keep warm. The alternative would be to hide in her sleeping bag untill sunrise, for 16 hours

Still wondering where she slept on the night of 21 / 22 November.

There was a comment that she bivouacked - slept open - one night, although I wasn't clear about which night.

 

[otto]

I feel it would be extremely naïve to dismiss a mountain accident as being a probable cause of disappearance. Likewise, would it not be equally foolish to dismiss any possibility of third party involvement? ED's B/F and family, while not ruling out the former, certainly express concerns that the latter may be a likely factor. It is interesting that Mount Maladeta has been mentioned – interesting in the respect that the intention to go there has never been mentioned by ED in the last remaining days of her hike, whereas Luchon...

I think it will be natural for her family to trust her ability to respond appropriately to all hiking related risks, which would tip them in the direction of suspecting that a person interfered with her. Weather, temperature, black ice, miscalculation could be the cause for her disappearance. Maybe she took a step onto unstable ground to take a photo and the ground gave way. There are so many possibilities that are more likely than a premeditated abduction.

 

[Satchie]

interesting in the respect that the intention to go there has never been mentioned by ED in the last remaining days of her hike, whereas Luchon...

RSBM

You've mentioned this before, but I'm not clear on what is being implied.

She referred to Bagneres Luchon on her post of the 21st. It's a famous, beautiful town in France with a lot of tourism oriented towards outdoor activity: it's often on the Tour de France, and is an access point from France for dramatic hikes and climbs. IMO it would be an interesting area to explore from an unusual direction, as per her hiking plan, and a landmark that you would point out to your readers from a peak. Can't see any other associations, perhaps you could be more explicit?