Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

[mal23]

Hi Sleuths,
If the 2200m figure is correct she was on the zig-zags below the col of Port de la Glere. Cross referencing with a contoured map it's just below the long shadow cast by that huge boulder sticking out of the scree to the left of the zig-zags (see google earth link above)- a fine resting place/viewpoint...

 

[mrjitty]

The fact that her gear was found with her indicates to me that she fell from much lower down on Pic de la Glere rather than the top (she surely wouldn't carry all her gear on an up-down hike, especially one involving a scramble). There is a small path going up the lower shoulder of Pic de la Glere towards the escarpment (see attached picture). I'm guessing she fell from point X.

Interesting - and this ridgeline certainly seems like the kind of place you could easily fall from with the wrong shoes.

 

[sarahboirin]

DM is now claiming (but sourced), that the skull was found very close to the body - only 100m apart. So as expected, the skull find really narrowed down the search area - but also shows how hard it is to find a body without a helicopter.

My guess is it you couldn't see the body uphill from the track - e.g if a fall it came to rest against an obstruction or choke point - so you'd likely only see it from the peak



Esther Dingley's boyfriend 'paced up and down for DAYS' retracing her steps until he found her body | Daily Mail Online

BBM 600 m per the article but 100 m as the crow flies ;

"Captain Bordinaro said the distance between where the body and skull were found was '100 metres as the crow flies' - but in reality, the hilly terrain on the rock-strewn path meant they were separated by 600 metres."

And they have her phone and are examining it too ;

"Forensic officers are also examining Esther's phone - a £270 Redmi Note 9 Pro - in the hope pictures saved on the memory or signals sent from the device could help police solve the mystery of her death."

Esther Dingley's boyfriend 'paced up and down for DAYS' retracing her steps until he found her body | Daily Mail Online

 

[OEJ-JEO]

DM is now claiming (but sourced), that the skull was found very close to the body - only 100m apart. So as expected, the skull find really narrowed down the search area - but also shows how hard it is to find a body without a helicopter.

My guess is it you couldn't see the body uphill from the track - e.g if a fall it came to rest against an obstruction or choke point - so you'd likely only see it from the peak

Esther Dingley's boyfriend 'paced up and down for DAYS' retracing her steps until he found her body | Daily Mail Online

I think we need to wait for clarity. The DM article quoted contradicts itself several times, and seems to have been written by someone who hasn't studied the maps. The map in the article still shows her remains being found on the Spanish side of the border, between the Pic de Sauvegarde and La Besurta!

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/11/08/46520105-9879993-image-m-1_1628665618705.jpg

 

[mrjitty]

I think we need to wait for clarity. The DM article quoted contradicts itself several times, and seems to have been written by someone who hasn't studied the maps. The map in the article still shows her remains being found on the Spanish side of the border, between the Pic de Sauvegarde and La Besurta!

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/08/11/08/46520105-9879993-image-m-1_1628665618705.jpg

Oh i agree on that - the DM is a joke, but I am hoping they didn't make up the Captain's quotes!

Of course its highly possible they have it all wrong

 

[Grouse]

I haven't seen anyone who has posted that there is such a ridge route, and certainly no hiking path marked on any map I've looked at. IMHO she could not have done this with 1 hour of good hour of daylight and 1 hour of failing light left and with a heavy pack - she was a hiker and not a mountaineer. This link gives an idea of distances walking the French side (the blue route she was predicted to take and the difficult pink shortcut via Lac de la Montagnette with good kml visual link) GRPdesBF 331-333

No, I've seen nothing definitive either, but would be be interested to see if we can establish for sure though. Otherwise that leaves us with the theory that she did the Impeatrice loop and arrived there next afternoon. I posted a while ago up thread how I thought that might be plausible, but the more I think about it now, the less I think it likely that she never checked her phone all day, in an area with apparently good signal.

If she did do the loop, then to end up at the top of Pic de la Glere (in order possibly to fall off it) would be an eastward deviation from the route (quite possible though from what others said it seems not so attractive a peak to make that detour for?) , whereas if it was via the ridge it would appear to be on the way to rejoining (at BM331 on the map in your link) the route back down to Benasque . I think.

I'm not too heavily invested in the ridge theory tbh, but I may try to investigate it further before ruling it out altogether.

 

[Grouse]

I was thinking the same about that sleeping mat. The dossier says she had NeoAir Thermarest - it packs down really small in its own bag rather than being rolled and attached to the backpack so if it was out on the ground it suggests a deliberate camp - by which I mean she could still be injured in a fall but at that point able to take shelter.

I thought the same, decent mats pack up really small (and cheaper ones don't as I unfortunately discovered after buying mine, online) so there's no need to attach on the outside. In all the photos I've never seen any where Esther had kit strapped on the outside of her rucksack.

But as others have said, we need to wait for decent reporting.

 

[mal23]

said boulder/outcrop/viewpoint at approx 2220m shown here
2200m is about at the start of the straight section
(path with contours from Port de la Glere)

 

[poirotoupierrot]

No one replied- so I’m going to try again as I have no idea. How long would it take to walk from pic de s to the precipice above pic de glare? Was this possible the same day to see an amazing sunset?
ETA We know she had a couple of hours left of daylight and that she walked faster than average.

It seems like there was a very long route (about 3- 4 hours) or a very short one, which was was incredibly unrealistic and dicey, but someone who didn't know the area or was feeling dizzy or in other ways unwell might have attempted.

As the remains were found between Port de la Gléré and Pic de la Gléré, some people were saying her last photo, on Pic de la S was too far away from P de la G (whichever one) for her to have had a fall. My point was, though timing might have mattered in other senses, it didn't seem to matter When it happened, or IF, it's clear it did... thought the cause of that fall remains uncertain. And that the bad, short route could have been attempted and gone wrong.

I think it very probable that whatever her route, she was very tired and underfed perhaps, and either made a rash decision to attempt to get back home more quickly or - something else. It's worth mentioning that, although it's a three and a half hour walk between those spots it's only an 8 min drive, with a walk to and from the car at either side. That's why I ruled out murder quite early on. I couldn't see how the body could have got there without people noticing (sorry if that's disrespectful).

I feel increasing concern for the family, as to me it looks more and more like suicide, as an experienced climber wouldn't have taken the decision to go from Port de la Gléré to the Pic - I don't think. I suspect that might be why DC suspected foul play. His knowledge of her is important. She was astonishingly intelligent, but also brave. Perhaps she was too keen to test her limits, especially if I was in an effort, I don't know, like poor visibility, or? A bear? Who knows? An injury? And she couldn't move well and then fell?

 

[RickshawFan]

We have to differentiate between passive and active radio and modes.

A phone in complete airplane mode is not transmitting any radio signals that would allow it to be tracked from a remote station.

I believe a phone in a passive mode could still receive GPS signals which do not require an active connection. e.g my garmin sports watch has GPS which allows it to position itself - but that is a passive reception - it does not communicate with the GPS satellite - so you cannot track me remotely ....

The article is talking about the phone having its location services turned off, but still with an active radio signal - which would mean it could be tracked from the towers, even it if wasn't syncing cloud location data.

I’m going to look again at the LE testimony in the Morphew case. There was a lot of WS chatter on this topic, because a lot of posters were VERY surprised at what LE could get access to. I’ll pick this up later if I can get it figured out.

But, maybe unrelated, if ED’s family or DC had called her while her phone was in airplane mode, her phone would have pinged? When you’re on a plane, you get messages to voicemail? So, there must be some kind of locator? There was no trace of ED’s phone after PicdeS.
I’m useless on phone technology, though, so feel free to pick this apart.

 

[mal23]

As the remains were found between Port de la Gléré and Pic de la Gléré... an experienced climber wouldn't have taken the decision to go from Port de la Gléré to the Pic - I don't think.

very unlikely she would have continued up the Pic from the Port/col esp with big sack. and would have been an unlikely/long fall to end up at 2200m near a path..

 

[RickshawFan]

Snipped for focus....



But don't forget she also had the "famous tarptent" I can imagine if she did dip into france she might want not to be seen and stayed in the tent overnight, not a French refuge on trails that were closed.

The “famous tarptent” was yellow. There was no way to go incognito in it unless you’re in the woods.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Interesting - and this ridgeline certainly seems like the kind of place you could easily fall from with the wrong shoes.

Did anyone say she fell from the top? I think people just found any of the approaches dicey-looking, and anywhere there in poor conditions could have induced a fall quite quickly - therefore not reaching the Pic, but simply aiming for it. This thread is plagued by that sort of completist logic. I admit that that's part of the enticement to return here though, the partial knowledge and wanting to work it all out with existing, and as yet insufficient evidence. It's all so sad.

 

[RickshawFan]

I was thinking the same about that sleeping mat. The dossier says she had NeoAir Thermarest - it packs down really small in its own bag rather than being rolled and attached to the backpack so if it was out on the ground it suggests a deliberate camp - by which I mean she could still be injured in a fall but at that point able to take shelter.

You are correct. That mattress would go inside the pack. It would get destroyed in a matter of hours on the outside of the pack: think, ultralight air mattress.

****
Please, no one use this mattress design at anytime but the height of summer. Paradoxically, that mattress can accelerate hypothermia. It puts a layer of air under you. In below freezing weather, that means icy cold. I can testify this is true! You need an insulated mattress, or at least a piece of closed cell foam(those rolls you see on the outside of backpacks).

 

[Mel79]

Did anyone say she fell from the top? I think people just found any of the approaches dicey-looking, and anywhere there in poor conditions could have induced a fall quite quickly - therefore not reaching the Pic, but simply aiming for it. This thread is plagued by that sort of completist logic. I admit that that's part of the enticement to return here though, the partial knowledge and wanting to work it all out with existing, and as yet insufficient evidence. It's all so sad.

I think people were, assuming good weather and visibility, that she would have had to be crazy to try to climb the slopes up to the Pic from the French side, therefore the surmise was that she fell from the ridge (or 'top') to get where she ended up. Not necessarily the peak at all.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I imagine the police, and Dan, know exactly where Esther fell from by now, to end up where she did. I wonder how much will be disclosed to the public.

The next major step is ascertaining (via phone records and photos) where she walked before that, and possibly when she died.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

I think people were, assuming good weather and visibility, that she would have had to be crazy to try to climb the slopes up to the Pic from the French side, therefore the surmise was that she fell from the ridge (or 'top') to get where she ended up. Not necessarily the peak at all.

I hope that's agreement, because you and I are saying the same thing... although I odn't think she was 'crazy.' I do think she was maybe suffering or in pain.

 

[touch]

Please, no one use this mattress design at anytime but the height of summer. Paradoxically, that mattress can accelerate hypothermia. It puts a layer of air under you. In below freezing weather, that means icy cold. I can testify this is true! You need an insulated mattress, or at least a piece of closed cell foam(those rolls you see on the outside of backpacks).

This is not true.
A thermarest neoair has an R value of 4.2. That's at least 3-season and more than a lot of closed-cell foam pads.

 

[RickshawFan]

Did anyone say she fell from the top? I think people just found any of the approaches dicey-looking, and anywhere there in poor conditions could have induced a fall quite quickly - therefore not reaching the Pic, but simply aiming for it. This thread is plagued by that sort of completist logic. I admit that that's part of the enticement to return here though, the partial knowledge and wanting to work it all out with existing, and as yet insufficient evidence. It's all so sad.

Thank you for saying this. I think LE has been urging from the get-go to stay out of “completist logic”. Note how far ranging their November search was: they didn’t take any testimonial for gospel. And also note LE’s reference to ED as inexperienced. LE’s statements come from their SAR experience in that region as well as statistics; this brought them outside the narrative of ED had to have gone this way and behaved like so.
I’m a big fan of following LE and SAR for guidance in missing hiker cases.
Esther Dingley's final moments still a mystery as remains may have been scattered by animals

 

[mrjitty]

I think people were, assuming good weather and visibility, that she would have had to be crazy to try to climb the slopes up to the Pic from the French side, therefore the surmise was that she fell from the ridge (or 'top') to get where she ended up. Not necessarily the peak at all.

Yes. The Ridgeline that you have to follow to reach the peak.