Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #1

[TillyMay]

I've only just heard about this case, I read earlier that she had posted a pic on Facebook of a foot print in the snow, she was asking if people thought it was a bears foot print. Hopefully it wasn't but it did look like one.

 

[Seni]

Police searching for missing British 'van life' blogger Esther Dingley interview her boyfriend twice | Daily Mail Online

 

[Satchie]

There may be innocent reasons why the hiker hasn't come forward, but he needs to be found and spoken to.
I wonder if it would be possible to triangulate all mobile phone data for the area for say, the 22nd and 23rd of November, since there won't have been that many people up there. If LE could do that they could build up a picture of who was where and maybe get an idea of what has happened.

IMO they would need a warrant from a judge to gather that kind of data and invade people's privacy in that manner. IMO no judge in North America would grant such a warrant without very strong probable cause, ie proof that she was killed or kidnapped by someone who was in that area at a certain time. From what I have seen of other investigations, the French constitution is extremely protective of the personal privacy of ordinary citizens, I have no experience from Spain.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

This is quite interesting. I'm combining the info with that of her FB postings

Monday 16th - parks van, sets off hiking, stays at Angel Orus refuge overnight.
Tuesday 17th - hike curtailed by snow, heads back to AO refuge for the night.
Wednesday 18th - continues walk, sleeps in her tent (FB says in Santa Anna cabana).
Thursday 19th - descends mountain at 2pm with male hiker (per her FB post, he dropped her back at her campervan)
Friday 20th - ??? no posts, don't know if she walked that day
Saturday 21st - on the move again but no mention of where she slept that night
Saturday 22nd - no updates, but whatsapped Dan.

Police searching for missing UK blogger interview boyfriend twice | Daily Mail Online

Esther & Dan

Now..... did she start the whole walk again 21st on to get back to where she broke off on 19th? Or did someone drive her back up to start where she left off?

 

[Satchie]

I use the word hill loosely as in hillwalking when this often used to describe quite mountainous terrain, but I get your drift.

That's a fair point about starting altitude, my bad. Benasque is 1140m and Pic de Sauvegarde is 2738 so, without knowing her exact route , that's roughly about 1600m of ascent. Ben Nevis via the route we did was 1345m, so possibly her climb was less than I estimated, but still a fair old climb.

The witness described the backpack as large and it looks fairly big in photos I've seen, maybe 65L , but as you say could be full of ultra lightweight gear.

Hard to judge really from our armchair view what her level of expertise and fitness would be but I thought there did seem to be some harsh criticism building on here (even suggesting she was recklessly following bear tracks for goodness sake!) and felt myself wanting to try to take the balanced view.

IMO it's too hard to say what causes, for eg, a catastrophic fall into an area where search crews can't find you. You could just be extra tired, distracted or confused for a few moments and make a mistake, like forgetting exactly where the trail back down is. If you do it on a street you can just retrace your steps, when you do it on a high mountain trail, the consequences can be fatal.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Everyone please remember, that as with any case involving foreign language and/or translation, there is not much point picking over the nuances of what has been said.

We have got ourselves in real tangles with this previously, and it's not usually even worth it!

 

[momsof3]

IMO they would need a warrant from a judge to gather that kind of data and invade people's privacy in that manner. IMO no judge in North America would grant such a warrant without very strong probable cause, ie proof that she was killed or kidnapped by someone who was in that area at a certain time. From what I have seen of other investigations, the French constitution is extremely protective of the personal privacy of ordinary citizens, I have no experience from Spain.

I agree in the U.S. that they would need a warrant based on PC, I've long followed the evolving law on geo-fence warrants. I think there is a decent chance they could make a case for a warrant here, even with what is publicly known and I am guessing the authorities might know more since they are making statements that they do not believe she is on the mountain. A good article on geofence warrants (the quoted NYT article is excellent too). Do Geofence Warrants Violate the Fourth Amendment?. Since none of this would apply in Spain I'm not sure how helpful this info is - but I do think it could help locate witnesses near Esther at a particular time. There seems to be amazing cell coverage where she was.

I think here there is some external evidence that it could be something other than just a missing hiker - the fact that there is a man who gave her a ride right before she went missing, who now can't be located (agreed he might be out of range and or not checking news). Coupled with the fact that she did share her route and hasn't been found where she logically would be - though I agree with others that she might have made a decision to camp (but then where is the yellow tent). I think that LE is saying that "she may not be on the mountain" is based on evidence in this case. That said, I do think accident is the likeliest end.

In the case of people missing on a serious mountain hike (not a stroll through a wooded park), the overwhelming presumption by Search and Rescue is accidental death. IMO it is only because she is female that this whole sexual predator scenario comes up. A 37 year old man missing in the same circumstances would be presumed to have had an accident, and after two weeks SAR would call off the search because there was no signs he was alive: no tracks, no signs of a campsite, no attempts to signal to rescuers, no cellphone use, and no indication of leaving the mountain such as taking things from the vehicle, or using a credit card or bank withdrawl. A person cannot survive for weeks in the mountains in cold weather, with no food, they will die.

We're asked not to draw comparisons to other cases, but here in Western Canada/Pacific Northwest, this happens regularly. The person is presumed dead, authorities do not continue to search and even the family gives up the search when the weather gets too bad. People hope the remains are eventually discovered by another hiker.

IMO there is an assumption that every female is the target of a sexual predator or a hostile spouse, which puts pressure on police to intensively investigate that angle beyond what the evidence indicates.

Edited to fix quotes. Also sorry to quote you twice @Satchie.

 

[ZaZara]

According to the DM, this would have been Esthers itinerary from 16 - 22 november:

16-11 arrival in Benasque
17-11 hike to Angel Orus Refuge, landed there because of snow
18 & 19 - 11 continues her trek and sleeps 1 night in her tent
19 returns from Pic de Maupas with another hiker who drives her back to her campervan in Benasque
21 & 22 - 11 reaches the top of the Pico Salvaguardia / Pic de Sauvegarde

The trip to the Pico Salvaguardia / Pic de Sauvegarde is mentioned on many hiking pages as a daytrip and the starting point is La Besurta. A road goes straight from Benasque to La Besurta, and it takes 23 minutes by bus. As far as I could find out, this service is only available in summer.
From La Besurta to the top of the Salvaguardia, the hike is 2 hours 30 minutes in summer.

Map starting at La Besurta:

The purple track goes to Pico Salvaguardia, and the Refuge de Benasque where she was planning to go is in red, from Puerto de Benasque.

Did Esther take the track from La Besurta? or another starting point?
How did she get there?
Why was she so late?

The hiker who took her back to Benasque had possibly parked his car at Llanos del Hospital, a ski resort. No snow for skiing as of yet.

 

[Andreee]

From her posts on previous treks I get the impression she was actually very capable and very prepared. The reason her pack was large was because she carried what she needed to camp overnight on these hills if necessary due to unexpected bad weather, or if she simply wanted to do that. The fact that she climbed that mountain , which is about twice the height of Ben Nevis - the highest in the UK and the highest I have ever done (and that was with a light pack) , carrying full gear indicates to me that she must have been incredibly fit.

I haven't seen anything about following footprints of wild animals, only that she was asking if a paw print she saw could be a bear.

Also there wasn't much snow up there and the weather was good the witness said.

I would question the wisdom of going up there at that time, but if she was planning to camp up there, or somewhere lower down on the descent route, then she is more likely to have set off later I think.

I agree. I didn't see anything about following paw prints, just that she came across one! Or trapsing through deep fresh snow.
It is more of being naive as to the danger of the two legged variety of predator, as in getting in a car with a stranger IMO.

 

[Seni]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13387759/esther-dingley-photo-diary-timeline-tragedy-pyrenees/



"Police are using experts to examine her Instagram photos to unravel the 24 hours before she disappeared

The last picture Esther is thought to have taken shows her at the summit, with a solar panel and a telecommunications mast on the peak reflected in her sunglasses.

(…)

It is slightly different from the one she posted the previous day, in that she is wearing an open-necked top and carrying a rucksack with the water tube clearly visible.


A source said: “The last photo is taken later in the day, as the shadow is higher on the slope. That would suggest she went up to the Pic de Sauvegarde twice — which leads to the question, why go up to the same spot twice in 24 hours?”

 

[Satchie]

The trip to the Pico Salvaguardia / Pic de Sauvegarde is mentioned on many hiking pages as a daytrip and the starting point is La Besurta. A road goes straight from Benasque to La Besurta, and it takes 23 minutes by bus. As far as I could find out, this service is only available in summer.
From La Besurta to the top of the Salvaguardia, the hike is 2 hours 30 minutes in summer.

Map starting at La Besurta:

The purple track goes to Pico Salvaguardia, and the Refuge de Benasque where she was planning to go is in red, from Puerto de Benasque.

Did Esther take the track from La Besurta? or another starting point?
How did she get there?
Why was she so late?

The hiker who took her back to Benasque had possibly parked his car at Llanos del Hospital, a ski resort. No snow for skiing as of yet.

I agree, I have assumed she hiked from Benasque on the usual route (potentially a daytrip) east (or right) of the area where she had previously been hiking as shown by the Daily Mail map.

Search and rescue have stated she intended to hike from the Sauveguard to the Venasque refuge on your map (backtracking a bit to do that) and then head west, towards where she had to quit her hike the previous week.

ETA, I mixed up my east and west and have corrected it.

ETA again: This is the quote from the head of SAR, quoted in the Guardian, who IMO fact check their details:

"Dingley was on the Chemin de l’Impératrice (Empress Path) hiking route via Port de Venasque before heading for Porte de la Glère", Gendarmes to scale down search for British hiker Esther Dingley in Pyrenees

IMO this means she was heading from east to west on her latest trip, not west to east as the media state.

 

[Satchie]

Missing Brit Esther Dingley's photo diary feared to be timeline to tragedy



"Police are using experts to examine her Instagram photos to unravel the 24 hours before she disappeared

The last picture Esther is thought to have taken shows her at the summit, with a solar panel and a telecommunications mast on the peak reflected in her sunglasses.

(…)

It is slightly different from the one she posted the previous day, in that she is wearing an open-necked top and carrying a rucksack with the water tube clearly visible.


A source said: “The last photo is taken later in the day, as the shadow is higher on the slope. That would suggest she went up to the Pic de Sauvegarde twice — which leads to the question, why go up to the same spot twice in 24 hours?”

I'm glad police are trying to establish this timeline, but I don't think the Sun is a good source to do it.

When you arrive at a summit after a long hike up, you are hot and wearing few clothes. Very quickly, however, you start to cool off, so you take off your backpack and don more clothes. As you get ready to go back down, you usually reduce your clothing again, because you don't want to stop once you get moving.

 

[Tortoise]

Missing Brit Esther Dingley's photo diary feared to be timeline to tragedy



"Police are using experts to examine her Instagram photos to unravel the 24 hours before she disappeared

The last picture Esther is thought to have taken shows her at the summit, with a solar panel and a telecommunications mast on the peak reflected in her sunglasses.

(…)

It is slightly different from the one she posted the previous day, in that she is wearing an open-necked top and carrying a rucksack with the water tube clearly visible.


A source said: “The last photo is taken later in the day, as the shadow is higher on the slope. That would suggest she went up to the Pic de Sauvegarde twice — which leads to the question, why go up to the same spot twice in 24 hours?”

I disagree with the source. I am 100% convinced in my own judgement that the two photos were taken on the same day. The sky on the horizon seems to have an identical quality. I think even the same stray hair is glistening on her forehead, tuft of loose hair on top right of her head, and her water tube is there it's just more hidden in the second photo because of the angle of the photo. I don't believe it would have still been that bright of light at the top on the Sunday, given the time of her passing the hikers at 3pm and having more than an hour's trek ahead.

these are the two photos side by side to save searching back through the thread

 

[RickshawFan]

It is slightly different from the one she posted the previous day, in that she is wearing an open-necked top and carrying a rucksack with the water tube clearly visible.


A source said: “The last photo is taken later in the day, as the shadow is higher on the slope. That would suggest she went up to the Pic de Sauvegarde twice — which leads to the question, why go up to the same spot twice in 24 hours?”

Snipped for focus

I wouldn't put much stock in either of these details about what she's wearing or the hose. It's sunny up there! She could have had her jacket off and put it back on a bit differently, unzipped it a bit, or took off a layer that was underneath it. So, her favorite blue top was showing at the neck. Experienced hikers whip off layers and throw them back on moment to moment. You don't want to sweat unduly, because hypothermia can set in.

If she took her jacket off, she would have had to take her pack off. Alternatively, she took her pack off so she could have a sit and kick back for a while. To me, the hose looks visible in both photos. Never mind.... in putting a pack on the hose can get between your back and the pack instead of coming over your shoulder. This is all the more likely if you've unhitched the hose because you were drinking. You'd fish it out later if it got behind your back by mistake. All normal.

So, I wouldn't create evidence over those details.

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder why Esther would have been asking for fruit and not having sufficient supplies with her if she still had a fair time ahead of her before she planned to return to the campervan. I suppose it could have been her 'way' of making human contact and not necessarily indicative of dehydration.

I watched a video she made much earlier this year when she described a similar incident of going out without enough refreshment and asking a garage worker for drink and food. On that occasion she had no money or phone on her. I'm not sure on the rules for linking to it, despite being part of the antique furniture here.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

A half decent report by the DM with a few new bits of info:

• Esther also spoke to her father, Henry, before setting off up the mountain, phoning to tell him of the preparations she had made. 'She told him she was preparing for her last hike before heading home to Dan,' says her aunt. 'She'd got all the right clothes and equipment and she knew where she was going. She was looking forward to it.'

• By the beginning of 2014, Dan was receiving counselling for depression while Esther had been diagnosed with chronic fatigue, sparked by her own mental health struggles.

• Pierre Gaillard, deputy commander of the French high-mountain gendarmerie platoon, says the last time Esther's phone was active was when she called Dan just before 4pm on November 22. 'There is no data use or GPS trace since then,' he adds.

• Conditions were clear and there was still at least an hour-and-a-half of daylight left — plenty of time for the highly experienced hiker and trail runner to reach the mountain-side cabin where she was planning to spend the night. There is no evidence, however, that she ever got there.

• The granddaughter of World War II hero Warwick Dingley, who was awarded the Military Cross for his service in Italy [...] her skills as a rower saw her representing Great Britain in the Junior European Cup.

Forensic reconstruction of hiker Esther Dingley's disappearance in the Pyrenees is revealed | Daily Mail Online

 

[Grouse]

I disagree with the source. I am 100% convinced in my own judgement that the two photos were taken on the same day. The sky on the horizon seems to have an identical quality. I think even the same stray hair is glistening on her forehead, tuft of loose hair on top right of her head, and her water tube is there it's just more hidden in the second photo because of the angle of the photo. I don't believe it would have still been that bright of light at the top on the Sunday, given the time of her passing the hikers at 3pm and having more than an hour's trek ahead.

these are the two photos side by side to save searching back through the thread

Another thing to bear in mind for anyone calculating sun angles is that these photos are reverse (mirror) images - you can see this from the osprey logo being the wrong way round.

Edit: on closer inspection looking at shadows on some of the small rocks etc I think I can see why someone would say the sun angles are different across the 2 pictures as I think they are, in fact almost 180 degrees different. For that to happen if she made two visits they would have to be at radically different times of the day.

Then I looked closer at the reflection of the sloping solar panel and radio mast in her glasses and they seem to be the opposite way round, so my explanation of that is she took one picture at one side of the mast and the other standing at the other side of the mast facing the opposite direction.

I think both pictures are reverse images (osprey logo as mentioned before) as the water tube is on her "left" shoulder in both pictures.

 

[Grouse]

Snipped for focus

To me, the hose looks visible in both photos.

I can see the hose in both pictures clearly.

 

[Satchie]

A half decent report by the DM with a few new bits of info:

• Esther also spoke to her father, Henry, before setting off up the mountain, phoning to tell him of the preparations she had made. 'She told him she was preparing for her last hike before heading home to Dan,' says her aunt. 'She'd got all the right clothes and equipment and she knew where she was going. She was looking forward to it.'

• By the beginning of 2014, Dan was receiving counselling for depression while Esther had been diagnosed with chronic fatigue, sparked by her own mental health struggles.

• Pierre Gaillard, deputy commander of the French high-mountain gendarmerie platoon, says the last time Esther's phone was active was when she called Dan just before 4pm on November 22. 'There is no data use or GPS trace since then,' he adds.

• Conditions were clear and there was still at least an hour-and-a-half of daylight left — plenty of time for the highly experienced hiker and trail runner to reach the mountain-side cabin where she was planning to spend the night. There is no evidence, however, that she ever got there.

• The granddaughter of World War II hero Warwick Dingley, who was awarded the Military Cross for his service in Italy [...] her skills as a rower saw her representing Great Britain in the Junior European Cup.

Forensic reconstruction of hiker Esther Dingley's disappearance in the Pyrenees is revealed | Daily Mail Online

I can't cut and past the timeline from that article, but it indicates that she climbed Sauveguard on the 21st and again on the 22nd.

I suppose it's possible. Perhaps the first climb was a dayhike, to check out the route, and it was so fabulous that she returned to climb it again as the beginning of a multiday hike.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I disagree with the source. I am 100% convinced in my own judgement that the two photos were taken on the same day. The sky on the horizon seems to have an identical quality. I think even the same stray hair is glistening on her forehead, tuft of loose hair on top right of her head, and her water tube is there it's just more hidden in the second photo because of the angle of the photo. I don't believe it would have still been that bright of light at the top on the Sunday, given the time of her passing the hikers at 3pm and having more than an hour's trek ahead.

these are the two photos side by side to save searching back through the thread

You’re right about the hair, these pics look to have been taken at the same time. We know for a fact they were taken on (or by) 21st as she posted one of them on Instagram that day.

So was she climbing to the top of the same peak the next day? Why would she do that? I need to go back over the maps...