Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

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According to my research, I have analysis the whole incident so if we talk about the "Steven Avery" that done this kind of ridiculous things. I can't diastase this kind of incidents because this is not a valid case but if we careful for future so definitely, we will not listen to this kind of cases.
 
According to my research, I have analysis the whole incident so if we talk about the "Steven Avery" that done this kind of ridiculous things. I can't diastase this kind of incidents because this is not a valid case but if we careful for future so definitely, we will not listen to this kind of cases.
 
missy1974 said:
Yep! There are some people that would argue that he cleaned. IMO there is just no way that he could have cleaned all traces of DNA in his trailer. We all saw the video and the pictures of his place, I just don't believe that to be the case.

They never argued that theory at Steven's trial though, they actually dropped some charges when Brendan wouldn't testify. It was mentioned during Brendan's trial though, and was part of his "confession", just no corroborating evidence to go with it, like DNA on the bed, marks on the headboard, etc. There is a picture of Steven's bed and headboard... there is a layer of dust on it, how in the world was Teresa tied to that and the dust wasn't disturbed? Or how was it cleaned and the dust replaced? It's things like that that make it so I just cannot get on board with that theory at all.

I also think it's really sad that TH's family was and has been told that that is what happened and those were her final moments with no evidence to back that up other than a State theory and a confession riddled with inaccuracies. JMO

ETA: I think I have also read the theory that Steven covered everything in plastic first :confused:
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I live in the area, and believe me, Making of a Murderer left out a lot. SA is guilty. Why no DNA? SA lipped off in Prison how he would perform the perfect murder if he was ever released for the Rape he was innocent of. He had a long time to plan it and yes I believe everything was covered in plastic. The Prisoners he served with said he just plotted his revenge all the time, he just thought he'd get away with it. Former Inmates were the only ones, not surprised when they heard he was up on Murder charges. JMO, but I have issues with BD whole interrogation. His Attorney certainly was of no use for him. BD should be released.
 
blueyes said:
I live in the area, and believe me, Making of a Murderer left out a lot. SA is guilty. Why no DNA? SA lipped off in Prison how he would perform the perfect murder if he was ever released for the Rape he was innocent of. He had a long time to plan it and yes I believe everything was covered in plastic. The Prisoners he served with said he just plotted his revenge all the time, he just thought he'd get away with it. Former Inmates were the only ones, not surprised when they heard he was up on Murder charges. JMO, but I have issues with BD whole interrogation. His Attorney certainly was of no use for him. BD should be released.
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I've read pretty much everything to do with this case... I have slacked off a bit the last year or so, so maybe I missed it, but do you have any links supporting 'he was plotting his revenge'?

I do agree that MaM left out a lot, there was just no way that it could cover absolutely everything, but the stuff they left out goes both ways IMO I am past the MaM netflix show though, and actually can barely remember it now lol I watched it once when it first came out.... and didn't even finish the second one because it was all stuff I knew already.

I also agree about BD, he shouldn't be where he is. JMO

I think the State is expected to reply to KZ's latest filing sometime in the next few weeks. Ridiculous how slow the legal process is IMO
 
hello every one
Well The evidence against Steven Avery was overwhelming and convincing beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense ably made numerous suggestions of police planting, but didn't come close to proving it and that's why it lost at trial.

The cumulative evidence, I think, was too much to ignore. Yes, from a certain mindset it's possible to pick some things apart as "suspect" by approaching items singularly. But combined, the evidence makes it nigh-impossible that Steven Avery didn't kill Teresa. There's just too much to explain away.
 
scottrey12 said:
hello every one
Well The evidence against Steven Avery was overwhelming and convincing beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense ably made numerous suggestions of police planting, but didn't come close to proving it and that's why it lost at trial.

The cumulative evidence, I think, was too much to ignore. Yes, from a certain mindset it's possible to pick some things apart as "suspect" by approaching items singularly. But combined, the evidence makes it nigh-impossible that Steven Avery didn't kill Teresa. There's just too much to explain away.
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By now, can everyone almost agree that Steve Avery was a victim of a corrupt justice system? This man could not be anymore innocent. I cannot believe he cannot get a parole or a pardon based off all the alarming evidence offered in the Netflix doc
It is disturbing how police forced a confession out of Brendan Dassey to get a case closed quickly. I've seen enough episodes of FBI Files, 48 Hours, Cold Case, etc etc to know by now that the police lack integrity and honesty
 
Yazzyy said:
By now, can everyone almost agree that Steve Avery was a victim of a corrupt justice system? This man could not be anymore innocent. I cannot believe he cannot get a parole or a pardon based off all the alarming evidence offered in the Netflix doc
It is disturbing how police forced a confession out of Brendan Dassey to get a case closed quickly. I've seen enough episodes of FBI Files, 48 Hours, Cold Case, etc etc to know by now that the police lack integrity and honesty
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Agreed. This is not how our justice system is designed to work. It's hard to have trust in justice when we see things like this.
 
Hello, I’m new to the site and this is my first post. I only saw the making a murderer series’ around a year ago and I’m hooked on this case, I can’t decide whether I think Steven (and possibly Brendan) is guilty or if there is someone else behind it. I read one piece of information that makes me think they’re guilty then read something else that makes me think otherwise. I’ve tried reading through some of the debates/info on this site and elsewhere but there is a lot to get through! After watching the 2 parts again on Netflix I’ve now decided to start researching away from the documentary. Can anyone put me in the right direction for where to start researching?
 
SA did indeed brag to his fellow inmates on a habitual basis that he was going to rape, torture and murder when he got out of prison and he was going to get away with it!!!!!!!! When you look at all of the damning evidence it is overwhelming also to even entertain that this was planted would mean that hundreds and hundreds of endless people are all in on a horrific conspiracy and NOT ONE of which is slipping up I do not think so, also why not just kill Avery if it was indeed about not wanting him to have his payday so to speak.
While I get that there are people who hate cops want to believe they did this it just makes NO sense what so ever, there is NO evidence to prove SA did not do this but plenty to prove he did!
 
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He told Bryan Dassey he could kill someone and get away with it.
 
Steven Avery tests positive for coronavirus, lawyer says
June 3, 2020 10:21 am

James Buting, one of Avery's defense attorney's at his first-degree intentional homicide trial in 2006, tweeted the news late Tuesday night.

Buting described Avery's symptoms as "short-lived." The attorney said his one-time client remains "in good spirits."

Steven Avery tests positive for coronavirus, lawyer says
 
Hi all, Im not convinced about how the murder was committed. The investigation was not thorough enough. There are so many questions that are raised throughout. More questions than there are answers. So a woman turns up missing. Not called into the police to report her missing for 3 days. Well, so everyone knows everyone else in this town. Everyone knows she was last seen at SA's. So that's where the search was conducted. Lo and behold her remains were found there. So that's it from that day forward it wasn't like there was any other persons questioned. No other interests. Lets say, someone turns up dead on someones property. They are seen as an immediate suspect. What if, other people knew this would be the case. Other people knew itd be easy to switch judgement to SA. At that point anyone could easily frame him. It becomes a "he said she said" arguement. Who is going to tell the truth and who is going to lie? All based on each individuals motives. And biases. People are not good at thinking objectively in those regards. We need to then look at the evidence. The evidence isnt clearly pointing in one direction. So the bones were found in a burn pit. The burn pit wasnt analyzed and photographed properly with experts present to carefully document their findings. Where is the evidence of blood and bodily fluids in SA's home if thats where it happened? Not there. Why did the cadaver dogs run to the deer camp and kuss road in the first place? Namely, the crime committed didnt occur in SA's bedroom, nor the garage. Based on the findings. I think the most telling site to determine what truely happened to TH, would have to be the site where the crime was committed. Crime scenes are the best possible sites to find the truth. Thats where I think the efforts should most be concentrated. Why is TH's blood inside her vehicle? Because thats partly where the crime took place. But i believe it isnt solely where it happened. Blood spatter on the back door of the vehicle suggests she was outside the vehicle parked somewhere when she was attacked. Where was her vehicle when she was attacked? She may have gone to the back of the vehicle to get her equipment when she was struck in the head. I think that where the dogs had searched she had been. Kuss road. It was secluded enough that she could have been attacked there with no one knowing. Knocked unconcious with a blunt object in the back of the vehicle with the door propped open so that blood spatter showed up there. I suspect a skull fragment would have been shown to have a blunt object strike spot if they were further examined. She could have been dragged away from the vehicle and assaulted and shot 2 times. Wrapped up and transported in the trunk of her vehicle to the burn barrel the dogs searched in the quarry. And burned there. From there, her remains could have been moved to the SA's burn pit and her vehicle used to move the vehicle blocking the back entrance to be parked there in the salvage lot(damage seen to headlight). Where she had been shot wasnt found. There would be a lot of traces of blood spatter in the bedroom/garage/her vehicle. But that hasnt been found. I believe she was shot in the open, away from earshot of others. In an area where deer hunting is frequent and the sounds of gunshots wouldnt arouse suspicion - kuss road/deer camp. Now having said based on those pieces of evidence. The actual crime scene hasnt been extensively searched. I believe it to be kuss road where the crime happened. Whats the motive? Someone who is a seasoned serial killer could have done this because that's what they thrive on. So its possible a serial killer vagrant in the area could have commited it and knew the schedule and workings of the area and how to simply get the crime pinned on someone else. Or, it could have been someone with a violent sexual appetite who assaulted her and could easily wipe their hands free of blame.

Why did BD confess? Evidence doesnt show he had anything to do with it. His DNA did not turn up anywhere - he was coerced. Did SA and BD have a fire in the backyard? Yes, no refuting that. Is there evidence to show they burned her body there - not enough evidence to state that. Bones were found in the burn pit and were assumed to have been burned there. So no testing was done to prove otherwise.

No evidence she had been attacked on SA's property. Suspiciously enough, BD's brother's vehicle was crushed and couldnt be searched for evidence. His brother's computer was supposedly wiped clean too. Suspicious actions to be taken IMO. His brother was a hunter, and had unusual fetishes. Wanted to act like the man from SAW. Obviously liked horror, halloween and unusually graphic images on his computer. Tried to lure other women to deserted warehouses. I don't rule BD's brother or step father out as suspects. I dont't rule out an outside serial killer. I do however feel BD and SA are serving time for a crime they didnt commit.
 
Sustained said:
Why would they ? It appears that it shows a guilty man as innocent and would probably get tossed from any court proceeding.
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Since you obviously want true justice for TH, and she deserves nothing less, why wouldn't you want them to? It can't be faked like a lie detector test. The anomalies in the evidence and when and how evidence was found just doesn't sit right, and I don't even know anyone involved with the case. IWT that anyone concerned with the case would welcome the opportunity to have some of these questions answered.
 
blueyes said:
I live in the area, and believe me, Making of a Murderer left out a lot. SA is guilty. Why no DNA? SA lipped off in Prison how he would perform the perfect murder if he was ever released for the Rape he was innocent of. He had a long time to plan it and yes I believe everything was covered in plastic. The Prisoners he served with said he just plotted his revenge all the time, he just thought he'd get away with it. Former Inmates were the only ones, not surprised when they heard he was up on Murder charges. JMO, but I have issues with BD whole interrogation. His Attorney certainly was of no use for him. BD should be released.
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Wouldn't the ultimate revenge have been a multi-million dollar settlement? SA was very forgiving of the rape survivor who was led by LE to ID him and ultimately to testify against him. In fact, he seemed genuinely concerned for her emotional well-being. If he was hell-bent on murder, why not kill someone who had been part of the frame up? Or a family member of theirs?



Just because you live in the area makes you no more accurate in your analysis than anyone else. In fact, your tone lends credence to claims in parts 1 and 2 of the documentary that local people just generally don't like the Avery family.



IF SA talked about how he'd get away with murder, I'm positive he's not the only inmate to entertain those thoughts or to participate in those conversations. Those conversations come in many varieties OUTSIDE prison, from "I can't believe so and so got caught based on A, B, and C. I'd have never been so stupid as to leave that evidence." to "If I were to ever kill someone, I'd do it like this." Someone is obnoxiously drunk at a cookout, tailgate, pool party, whatever, and that conversation gets started. Yeah, he'll get some sideways glances, but it sure doesn't mean his buddies are going to be watching the papers for the next murder victim.



You assert that he lipped off in prison about using plastic to commit the perfect murder. Again, in what way would the murder of anyone, let alone someone not associated with his false imprisonment, be better than a multi-million dollar settlement? If he felt he needed to commit a crime to get revenge, why not wait until he got the money? Why murder? Why not rape? It's illogical.



As far as plastic, come on! ANYONE who has seen mob movies, watched even the most elementary of forensics shows, or watched one episode of Dexter would be aware of that scheme. And, btw, I tend not to believe inmates who rush to inform so freely on a previous inmate.

But let's just say for the sake of argument that he did use plastic during the murder of TH. It's a small town and everybody knows everybody. Where did he purchase the large, thick plastic sheeting that would be required to cover the floor, ceiling, and walls of his trailer in one seamless sheet? Okay, so he's got to duct tape together several sheets. That type of plastic sheeting isn't carried at your local hardware store, moving company, or grocery store. It's a specialty item. Even if he purchased it in the general region, don't you think someone would have come forward by now, especially given the obvious animosity people feel toward this family? Okay, he bought it online you say. Where's the digital footprint, the forensics?

So, we'll ignore that there's no evidence of any plastic purchased by SA, and that salvage yards aren't known to be the cleanest places. (It's not like they like the shop floor with it.) Where did he tape together the long heavy plastic sheets? There can't be any holes, punctures, tears, or gaps in the seams. It's got to withstand all that he's planning to do to an unwilling participant, and it's got to hold a lot of blood. Does he tape the sheets together outside? On the shop floor? Remember, not one drop of TH's blood was found inside his trailer.

Wherever he tapes together the sheets of plastic, now he's got to get it into his trailer and tacked down, up, and around, floor, ceiling, and walls. If you've ever used thicker plastic, you'll know it's cumbersome, surprisingly heavy, and not easily tacked onto anything but solid wood. Trailers aren't known for their solid construction. So, he's got to get all of this into his trailer and tacked with a staple gun (no, that would leave obvious evidence), Brad nails? (That's likely to tear the plastic with SA and BD in there together committing their crime.) Push pins? (Don't hold well enough and would leave evidence.) Well, whatever he uses he's got to remember to drape the sheeting over the bed and furniture but still allow for space to move around, all while not disrupting any of those many seams that had to be taped together. Unlike Dexter or mob movies, he doesn't have an empty room or completely flat surfaces to work with. Just getting the intact plastic through the metal frame of the door is going to be a challenge, let alone taking the bloody mess out of there when the whole gory affair is over. He's got blood on himself. Plastic is slippery. And he's got to go around and carefully remove every attachment point. Rip it slightly anywhere and it'll leave forensic evidence behind. So, somehow he manages to successfully do all of that and now he's wrapped up TH in pounds of plastic. But how does he get to clean clothes when his dresser was covered in plastic? Maybe he set clothes out but covered in the plastic. How does he get to those clothes without losing one drop of her blood? However he does it, he manages to accomplish all of that, with his 200lb. plus nephew in the room with an uncooperative victim. So now they have to get this bloody body wound up in really heavy plastic back out the very narrow metal framed door of the trailer, take it somewhere and crush it up, and carry it back to the burn pile.

I can't say what burning flesh smells like, but I do know what burning plastic smells like. It is so pungent that months later you can smell it on fabric and soft surfaces that have been cleaned repeatedly, and days later you can smell it on nearby hard surfaces. Now, you also have the matter of burning flesh, which I'm told is one of the worst smells in the world. Now combine the two, melting, burning plastic on burning flesh. I'm sorry, it's absolutely impossible to carry out this crime in the manner that was suggested at trial, let alone adding in plastic to explain away the lack of DNA evidence. And if by multiple miracles they could have pulled all that off, why so sloppy with the DNA in the RAV4? They didn't have just a little more plastic to use? How did they wash their hands, their hair, even if they could put clean clothes on. It's just not possible. The much more likely answer is that they were both framed.
 
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