Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder?

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So for those who think he is innocent tell me was LE supposed to just let him go and walk because he had been wrongfully convicted before? They were supposed to just stay away and let Teresa’s case go unsolved when her body is in his yard and burned? When her blood is in her car on his property?
When his dna is found on the car? Tell me any other case where you would not want the police to do exactly what they did here and investigate and arrest him.

 

[RANCH]

So you don’t think any of the “evidence” presented was in any way suspicious?

No, not really.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

Because SA could have cleaned the key. If he cleans it then her dna is gone. However he left his. It’s not rocket science. It’s actually a practical explanation.
This insane stretching and reaching for other ways the evidence could have been collected or attained reminds me of oj case. Thanksfully this jury was not as easily duped.

Ok. But how do you explain the key showing up on the 7th search? Searches which are conducted with the Avery family removed from the property?

I don’t see it as far fetched stretching at all but I do appreciate we have completely different views of what could have happened. Until I see concrete evidence I can only keep asking questions.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

Oh, but we're supposed to toss all that aside - SA is still guilty but it didn't necessarily happen in the manner that the DA put forth! No blood evidence was found in the trailer OR garage. But according to BD' "confession", they slit her throat and then choked her. Wouldn't that leave a little blood somewhere?
Maybe SA and BD are closet geniuses that cleaned up all the DNA except for that pesky valet key left out in the open (!) and the chap stick bullet, while leaving clothes on the floor, and clutter throughout the garage and trailer.

Thank you thank you

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

So for those who think he is innocent tell me was LE supposed to just let him go and walk because he had been wrongfully convicted before? They were supposed to just stay away and let Teresa’s case go unsolved when her body is in his yard and burned? When her blood is in her car on his property?
When his dna is found on the car? Tell me any other case where you would not want the police to do exactly what they did here and investigate and arrest him.

I would hope that LE would put forward evidence which removed any doubt as to whether or not he was guilty. Look how much doubt is out there, mainly due to the fact that the way SA was prosecuted was as far removed from a professional process as it could be. I don’t think Zellner would be touching this if she thought SA was guilty.

I am fully open-minded to finding out SA actually committed the crime if evidence is shown that he did it. Random blood spots in the car and bones being found in later searches doesn’t convince me at all.

How do we explain Teresa’s car reported being seen on the side of the road after she disappeared but yet again the same LE officer not filing a report on it? Way too many things don’t add up and for me to think someone is rightfully behind bars then everything has to make sense. I can’t make sense of any of it, let’s hope KZ gets to the bottom of it.

 

[proudfootz]

So the state murdered th to frame Steven Avery?

I don't know who might have killed TH.

It's my opinion that the law enforcement employees did not act in a professional manner that would have relieved me of the suspicion that they did indeed frame SA.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

I don't know who might have killed TH.

It's my opinion that the law enforcement employees did not act in a professional manner that would have relieved me of the suspicion that they did indeed frame SA.

Ditto for me, although I don’t know if it was LE or another party/parties who framed him.

 

[54-46]

Avery was as guilty as sin.
Let a re-trial prove it again.

 

[proudfootz]

You believe that there wa a fire at SAs house that night and that even though bits of TH bones were found there that she was not burned there?

I allow there may have been a fire that night. Sadly, mention of it was not included among early witness statements.

I do believe that as a result of the way the recovery of these cremains were conducted we may never know for 100% certain whether they were planted or the result of a fire at that location.

So someone killed her, burned her on the same night he had a fire, then after he went to bed drove onto the property with a bag of bones and dropped them in the fire pit?
Come on.

No, I don't believe that scenario either.

There is no forensic evidence that I am aware of that can supply us with the exact time and date these cremains were burned.
How would we know when the cremains - if they were planted - must be placed on the night of Oct 31 - Nov 1.

The cremains at SA's fire pit weren't a part of the public record until more than a week after TH's disappearance.

A lot can happen in a week.

For instance, based on analysis of the scent dogs supplied by law enforcement, it would appear that TH spent some time on the property adjacent to the Avery land. Since Steven was at home, as everyone agrees, then who was she with? Was she killed there? Buried there? Cremated there? Or was she wandering around on her own? Or should we argue the scent dogs were mistaken?

I understand if all this evidence which goes against your judgement does not convince you. But on my part a reasonable doubt exists and if we were on a jury we might not come to an agreement.

 

[proudfootz]

No I don’t. Because he could have cleaned it when he tossed it in his room. He could have thought that he couldn’t have left his own dna on it.

BBM

That is the stumbling block in this case - a lot of very different things could have happened. That is why I couldn't honestly aver that I accept the explanations on offer from the prosecution.

None of these people are bright bulbs. I think Steven Avery thought he was invincible. I don’t even think he knows how to differentiate between truth and lies anymore.

But I am not arguing that because Steven was so smart the evidence is the way it is. I think SA knows very well the difference the truth and a pack of lies, which explains why he protests his innocence like he did last time they put him away.

For anyone but him to do this people would have known TH plans and wanted to hurt SA so bad they would murder and torture this woman.

Those are your words, not mine.

I don't think what you suggest is a necessary belief. It's entirely reasonable to accept the possibility that the murder and the activities of law enforcement employees each had different motives.

It makes no sense. If you took the first case away no one would think this guy was innocent. No one.

BBM

Yes, take away a series of facts which shows that some law enforcement employees might have every reason to feel enmity and hostility toward him - to the point where public officials had to announce concern about the appearance of a conflict of interest leading to a frame up job.

You are asking me to ignore something that was very much in the minds of law enforcement spokesmen in 2005.

 

[proudfootz]

So for those who think he is innocent tell me was LE supposed to just let him go and walk because he had been wrongfully convicted before? They were supposed to just stay away and let Teresa’s case go unsolved when her body is in his yard and burned? When her blood is in her car on his property?
When his dna is found on the car? Tell me any other case where you would not want the police to do exactly what they did here and investigate and arrest him.

I do think Steven Avery is not guilty of any crime against Teresa.

I do think all viable suspects should have been followed up on, including Steven Avery.

As far as I am concerned what happened to Teresa has not yet been solved.

Yes, the RAV4 is significant.

Looking at the various facts that are available to us, and the many different theories supported by those facts, I cannot state beyond a reasonable doubt who might have killed Teresa.

All MOO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Ok. But how do you explain the key showing up on the 7th search? Searches which are conducted with the Avery family removed from the property?

I don’t see it as far fetched stretching at all but I do appreciate we have completely different views of what could have happened. Until I see concrete evidence I can only keep asking questions.

It could have been there and missed. I am not really impressed with the key. Even if you take the key out there is too much that points to Avery.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I do think Steven Avery is not guilty of any crime against Teresa.

I do think all viable suspects should have been followed up on, including Steven Avery.

As far as I am concerned what happened to Teresa has not yet been solved.

Yes, the RAV4 is significant.

Looking at the various facts that are available to us, and the many different theories supported by those facts, I cannot state beyond a reasonable doubt who might have killed Teresa.

All MOO

The explanation of the evidence is obvious. I don’t even care how it happened. I don’t think you need to know all the details to see it as being SA that is responsible. Her blood is in the car on his property. His blood is in that car. His dna is on the hood. If someone else had been convicted and this evidence was presented they would have been set free. I think SA thought he was untouchable. I feel bad for one person. TH.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

I do think Steven Avery is not guilty of any crime against Teresa.

I do think all viable suspects should have been followed up on, including Steven Avery.

As far as I am concerned what happened to Teresa has not yet been solved.

Yes, the RAV4 is significant.

Looking at the various facts that are available to us, and the many different theories supported by those facts, I cannot state beyond a reasonable doubt who might have killed Teresa.

All MOO

They didn’t question the ex-boyfriend, surely that’s murder investigation 101.

They didn’t look into why Teresa’s voicemail was accessed days after she went missing and voice messages were potentially deleted.

They didn’t show the defense team the report on Bobby’s internet searches.

They didn’t report the sighting of Teresa’s car days after she went missing.

They didn’t call Bryan Dassey to the stand who swore under affidavit that Bobby said he saw Teresa leave the property, while Bobby then sat on the stand saying he last saw her going into SA’s house.

They won’t allow Zellner access to the broken light on the car.

They can’t explain why they needed 7 searches to find a key that’s then found in plain view.

They say she was shot in the garage and yet there is not a speck of blood to be found, plus the bullet used as evidence has been proven to show no substantial proof of having pierced her skull.

They say she never left the property and yet sniffer dogs place here there and everywhere outside the Avery property.

There’s no bones in the barrel, then all of a sudden they’re found in the barrel.

I mean..

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

The explanation of the evidence is obvious. I don’t even care how it happened. I don’t think you need to know all the details to see it as being SA that is responsible. Her blood is in the car on his property. His blood is in that car. His dna is on the hood. If someone else had been convicted and this evidence was presented they would have been set free. I think SA thought he was untouchable. I feel bad for one person. TH.

I care how it happened and so should everyone, if anything out of respect for the victim. As well as knowing someone is being rightfully convicted with the truth being proven beyond a reasonable doubt and in-line with a legitimate legal system. Otherwise what is the point in having that system.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

Y

It could have been there and missed. I am not really impressed with the key. Even if you take the key out there is too much that points to Avery.

Missed 6 times by LE who are trained to search for evidence. Sorry but there is nothing that can excuse that.

 

[proudfootz]

Yes, the blood and DNA in the RAV4. In the second series of Making a Murderer there is some very interesting discussion of those very issues.

I care very much what happened to Teresa as that would provide clues as to who is responsible.

 

[Lineman]

Guilty. Both of them. The defense is now punching holes in evidence to create an alternate theory.

To suggest that dozens of LEO’, prosecutors laboratory technicians, scientists have conspired to frame these two is ludicrous. People can’t keep their mouths closed. It is human nature.


THE CSI EFFECT
All crime scenes where evidence is collected is not perfect. Sometimes evidence is mislabeled, step in, moved inadvertently or destroyed.

Civilians who have never collected evidence or have been present at a crime scene only have television shows or documentaries to form their opinions.

OJ SIMPSON
OJ is most likely guilty of killing his wife. however was acquitted . Why? Because he had unlimited $$$ to analyze and refute each piece of evidence. The same thing is happening here.

The lawyers worked hard at refuting scientific evidence and attacking g witnesses personal life to take everyone’s mind off the simple fact that he flew into a rage when he saw his wife with another man.

 

[proudfootz]

Y


Missed 6 times by LE who are trained to search for evidence. Sorry but there is nothing that can excuse that.

I believe Colburn testified on one of the searches on there were 4 officers in the bedroom at one time. Days later the key is allegedly discovered where they would have practically had to step over it every time they entered and left the small room.

 

[proudfootz]

Guilty. Both of them. The defense is now punching holes in evidence to create an alternate theory.

BBM

Yes. Nothing requires anyone to subscribe to a theory of Steven Avery's guilt that is full of holes and doesn't even explain all the evidence.

To suggest that dozens of LEO’, prosecutors laboratory technicians, scientists have conspired to frame these two is ludicrous. People can’t keep their mouths closed. It is human nature.


THE CSI EFFECT
All crime scenes where evidence is collected is not perfect. Sometimes evidence is mislabeled, step in, moved inadvertently or destroyed.

Civilians who have never collected evidence or have been present at a crime scene only have television shows or documentaries to form their opinions.

OJ SIMPSON
OJ is most likely guilty of killing his wife. however was acquitted . Why? Because he had unlimited $$$ to analyze and refute each piece of evidence. The same thing is happening here.

The lawyers worked hard at refuting scientific evidence and attacking g witnesses personal life to take everyone’s mind off the simple fact that he flew into a rage when he saw his wife with another man.