Still Asking Questions Here

[Ravyn]

That's easy. John Andrew, Melinda, and Stewart arrive at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport around 11 a.m. CT/10 a.m. MT Mike Archuleta calls them and Stewart calls the Ramsey house. (This is when John is down in the basement and says to Stewart "I found her." This is information he relayed to Steve Thomas.) The three take the first available flight out of Minneapolis to Denver. United Airlines has a flight which departs at noon CT and arrives in Denver at 1 p.m. MT. Then after they got their luggage, they took a taxi to the house and got there around 2 p.m.

http://travel.united.com/ube/shopAirportCitySearch.do?waitingPageFlag=true

If this is the case why didn't JR as a father tell the LE at this time that he found his lil angel cause right now the intruder theory as just went out that broken window in the basement in my opinion. And maybe this is what made ST to start looking more at the R's in this case.Cause looking at the timezones here and yes this might be the reason ST cleared JAR right away cause of the flights plans, but still the question remain why didn't JR report that he found her. I'm still open for any input here..... Cause this answer my question on ST clearing JAR but the thing still also why in the early morning hours JR called his private pilot that was transit at the time and how could they plan to leave at 7:00 am cause JR's plane wasn't there....

 

[DeeDee249]

If this is the case why didn't JR as a father tell the LE at this time that he found his lil angel cause right now the intruder theory as just went out that broken window in the basement in my opinion. And maybe this is what made ST to start looking more at the R's in this case.Cause looking at the timezones here and yes this might be the reason ST cleared JAR right away cause of the flights plans, but still the question remain why didn't JR report that he found her. I'm still open for any input here..... Cause this answer my question on ST clearing JAR but the thing still also why in the early morning hours JR called his private pilot that was transit at the time and how could they plan to leave at 7:00 am cause JR's plane wasn't there....

Many people believe JR went down to the body hours before he claimed to "find her" at 1 pm. Det. Arndt did not really keep tabs on his whereabouts that morning, and there was a 2-hour time period where she claimed she thought JR went to "get the mail". The Rs had a mail slot in their front door- it would take about 5 minutes to "get the mail". He was out of sight for 2 hours. Arndt later said she thought he had left the house to "get the mail", later saying it was possible he never left the house and was somewhere inside. Needless to say from an LE point of view, he should never have been out of her sight. From a parent of s kidnapped child point of view- he should never have left the house. After all, wasn't he waiting for a phone call from the kidnappers. Right....

 

[Ames]

Many people believe JR went down to the body hours before he claimed to "find her" at 1 pm. Det. Arndt did not really keep tabs on his whereabouts that morning, and there was a 2-hour time period where she claimed she thought JR went to "get the mail". The Rs had a mail slot in their front door- it would take about 5 minutes to "get the mail". He was out of sight for 2 hours. Arndt later said she thought he had left the house to "get the mail", later saying it was possible he never left the house and was somewhere inside. Needless to say from an LE point of view, he should never have been out of her sight. From a parent of s kidnapped child point of view- he should never have left the house. After all, wasn't he waiting for a phone call from the kidnappers. Right....

EXACTLY! And who in the world would be thinking about their stupid mail, at a time like THAT anyway?? "Gee, my daughter has been kidnapped and possibly murdered...I wonder if I got any mail today? Maybe I should go and check to see, because I am anxiously awaiting an invitation to a friend's New Years Eve party". I read that he (or somebody...maybe the RST) claimed that he was checking to see if he had gotten anything else from the "kidnapper". So, a kidnapper...after leaving a three page RN, that said everything that there WAS to say, decides to write yet ANOTHER note, and run up to the Ramsey's door, and drop it in the mail slot, with ALL of those police/detective and friend's cars parked outside. Yeah, now THAT sounds like a REAL good idea. Nevermind the fact..as you stated..that he was supposed to be waiting for them to call. Nowhere on that RN did it say that the kidnapper would write and additional note that he was going to walk up to the door, in plain daylight...and in full view...and drop ANOTHER note into the mail slot. If it had of been a real kidnapping, and the kidnapper had intended to do that...he would have said so in the first RN. It is kinda hard to get ransom money, if the people that you are getting the ransom money from, has no idea what is going on.

 

[Ravyn]

Now I know ST cleared JAR now in my thoughts just alittle to soon,but reading on the candyrose,JAR said it had to be an inside job, that PR was flashy and it had to someone that knew her now if that was the case would you say forgiveness to the killer if it was of your step-mother friends,I wouldn't.But I'm still working on the timezones so far I'm looking into JAR so so alibi.

 

[icedtea4me]

(Snip respect DeeDee)


Why would Patsy say JonBenet was wearing a red top when she was not?


Thanks for the "acandyrose" link. I have read much on this case but not near what I know y'all have done. I will make much use of that link but I am also happy to lurk on this thread and listen to what you all have to say.:woohoo:

...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS

Based on what she (Patsy) wore that night, I believe it's possible she was referring to herself in the third-person singular with the "She wore a red turtleneck" comment.

 

[Ames]

Based on what she (Patsy) wore that night, I believe it's possible she was referring to herself in the third-person singular with the "She wore a red turtleneck" comment.

Nah, I believe that the red turtleneck was originally put onto JB to sleep in...to make it easier for them the next morning, when they were getting ready to leave for their trip. IMO

 

[DeeDee249]

Nah, I believe that the red turtleneck was originally put onto JB to sleep in...to make it easier for them the next morning, when they were getting ready to leave for their trip. IMO

This is a distinct possibility. We do know that she didn't wear it to the White's. The other possibility is that she wore it earlier on Christmas Day, maybe to play in and it got soiled that way.

 

[icedtea4me]

Nah, I believe that the red turtleneck was originally put onto JB to sleep in...to make it easier for them the next morning, when they were getting ready to leave for their trip. IMO

Just before we're ready to leave, we'll get the kids up. Sometimes we even load them in the car in their pj's so they can resume sleeping in the airplane. (DOI, pg. 10 pb version)

Sorry, but I wouldn't be impressed with meeting someone wearing clothes that had gotten all sweaty and wrinkled from sleeping in them overnight.

 

[Ravyn]

But it would be ok if you meet them in their pj's. Now I believe BR had an alarm clock and that's how they woke early on Christmas morning and PR didn't act like she would want her children to be seen in their pj's.

 

[icedtea4me]

But it would be ok if you meet them in their pj's. Now I believe BR had an alarm clock and that's how they woke early on Christmas morning and PR didn't act like she would want her children to be seen in their pj's.

The kids can change into their clothes on the plane. They had at least three hours to do so. And it ain't gonna take that long to get dressed. Maybe 5 minutes, if that. Would you intentionally wear the clothes you were going to wear the next day to bed just to save time in the morning?

 

[Ames]

The kids can change into their clothes on the plane. They had at least three hours to do so. And it ain't gonna take that long to get dressed. Maybe 5 minutes, if that. Would you intentionally wear the clothes you were going to wear the next day to bed just to save time in the morning?

Patsy initially said that she put JB to bed in that red turtleneck...for whatever reason. And Patsy was planning on wearing the SAME outfit that she had worn to the White's party..on her trip....SO SHE SAYS...so whats the difference? That makes it not so far fetched...that she would put a turtleneck on JB to save time in the morning. (Patsy had no problem wearing the same sweaty, wrinkled outfit as she had the night before...IMO though...it was because she never went to bed that night).

 

[madeleine]

Patsy initially said that she put JB to bed in that red turtleneck...for whatever reason. And Patsy was planning on wearing the SAME outfit that she had worn to the White's party..on her trip....SO SHE SAYS...so whats the difference? That makes it not so far fetched...that she would put a turtleneck on JB to save time in the morning. (Patsy had no problem wearing the same sweaty, wrinkled outfit as she had the night before...IMO though...it was because she never went to bed that night).

Ha! I just posted re this on another thread.I TOTALLY agree!

 

[JMO8778]

IMO JB was initially strangled by the collar of the red shirt (Dr Spitz says she was first strangled by her shirt collar),thus prompting the R's to change it.But since she did have the red shirt on at some point,Patsy was trying to account for that.
Only later when getting a story together for LE with their attorneys,did they state JB wore the white shirt and was put straight to bed.The attorneys did not want the R's to admit any contact w JB that night after the party,due to her injuries (visible and not visible ones),IMO.

 

[Ravyn]

Ok, you wan to say it takes five minutes for them to change well they could had woke them up that morning to do that and they could had fell back to sleep cause I have seen this happen before in my own children .Besides getting and out of the car will cause them to wake up more faster cause of the temperature change JMO.. And about wearing same the same clothes to bed no,I like my nightie,but wearing the same clothes that I wore to a party the next day no, before a trip I would had took a shower and different clothes,but then again this wouldn't work in the timeline of this case if she woke to taken a shower and if her shower was broke then there was other showers in the house so there no excuse why she couldn't had taken a shower JR did......

 

[icedtea4me]

Patsy initially said that she put JB to bed in that red turtleneck...for whatever reason. And Patsy was planning on wearing the SAME outfit that she had worn to the White's party..on her trip....SO SHE SAYS...so whats the difference? That makes it not so far fetched...that she would put a turtleneck on JB to save time in the morning. (Patsy had no problem wearing the same sweaty, wrinkled outfit as she had the night before...IMO though...it was because she never went to bed that night).

If she really wanted to save time, then why not just have JonBenet fully dressed, including socks and shoes, when she was put to bed?

 

[DeeDee249]

One of the things I toss around in my mind about the red turtleneck is that IF she did put it on her that night when they got back from the White's - and JBR had it on when she was bashed in the head- she could have vomited a little or there could have been some bloody mucus that got on the shirt. This would also explain why the shirt was placed wet on the sink (because PR rinsed the incriminating evidence out).
We all know from the autopsy that there was mucus on her white shirt right sleeve/shoulder, where her head had been turned toward. They may not have noticed this, it may have oozed out after she was left in the wineceller.

 

[Ravyn]

I have wonder the same thing cause if she did have the red turtle neck on there could had been evidence on it...

 

[Ravyn]

And on the subject on wearing clothes JB had a problem wetting the bed so taking her on the plane in a pj's don't sound reasonable to me so JB most likely would had to be awaken to change anyway...And other thing that don't sound reasonable is their leaving at 7:00 am that morning to head to Minneapolis cause it only takes an hour to get there and JR's older children was to board the Delta flight at 8:30 am...And to answer the question about socks and shoes no,socks yes cause I wear socks to bed cause I don't like my feet touching the cold floor but that just me..

 

[Maikai]

And on the subject on wearing clothes JB had a problem wetting the bed so taking her on the plane in a pj's don't sound reasonable to me so JB most likely would had to be awaken to change anyway...And other thing that don't sound reasonable is their leaving at 7:00 am that morning to head to Minneapolis cause it only takes an hour to get there and JR's older children was to board the Delta flight at 8:30 am...And to answer the question about socks and shoes no,socks yes cause I wear socks to bed cause I don't like my feet touching the cold floor but that just me..

8:30 Atlanta time is 7:30 CST. Since the Ramseys were flying in a small private plane, I think it would take longer then an hour to get to Minneapolis. I've flown there from Denver, and it was an hour in a large jet.

 

[southcitymom]

After rereading the LE interview of PR (I think it was the one in 06/97) I am leaning towards JBR never being in her bed that night. When PR was shown photo's of the bedroom she verifies that the pjs on the bed are the ones JBR wore on Christmas morning. She also verified that the Xmas sweater laying at the bottom of the bed was JBR's. What parent would put their child to bed at night and not remove items laying on the bed? How much effort would it have taken to gather up the pjs and sweater and toss them to the other bed or floor? Another thing is if the pjs were right there on the bed, then why would PR have not just grabbed them to put on a sleeping JBR? She never saw them on the bed, right beside a sleeping JBR, because PR was not in the room that night.

Another thing I read in that interview was that JBR's coat was still in the jaguar. (LE showed PR a pic of the jag with the coat still in it and asked her if thats the coat that JBR wore that night) I always thought that JR had said he carried a sleeping JBR in the house, up the stairs and laid her on her bed. Then he removed her coat and shoes. Anyone remember? [/quote]
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Yep! I have posted about this before..a long time ago. How did John remove JB's coat, if it was in the car? Kinda hard to do...
I am going to go back and re-read that interview.

JOHN RAMSEY: I believe so, as I recall,
9 yeah.
10 So, anyway, I took her upstairs, laid her on the
11 bed. Usually what I would do, and I remember
12 either taking her shoes off or taking her coat
13 off, kind of getting her sort of started and then
14 Patsy took over getting her into bed. I went down
15 stairs --

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He can't remember if it was her shoes or her coat that he took off? I think that I would remember the last thing that I did for my child, before they died.

I might not if I didn't know they were going to die - that sort of parenting minutiae slips from my mind pretty easily.