Stolen Babies

[al66pine]

This site is the adoptive parents, family & friends’ site:
http://www.intheinterestofjamison.com/

From that site'‘s Jan 25, 2011 update, you can link Mo. Sup Ct’s opinion re Carlitos/Jamison.
(I’m not sure if the following works as a link. http://www.courts.mo.gov/file.jsp?id=43941)

The statement from Immigrations & Customs Enforcement on these family situations:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/ice-statement/story?id=15490256

........................................................................................

Also, to keep our discussions about the various families straight,
can we pls refer to the moms by name?
I think TOS allows it re articles & posts like this. If not, MODs, pls correct or delete.

So far I've read about these mom's:

Encarnacion Bail Romero, from Guatamala, bio mom (whose parental rights were terminated by a judge)
to 5 y/o Carlitos/Jamison (born in US), adopted by Moser couple in Mo, thru a judicial proceeding.

Amelia Reyes Jimenez from Mexico,bio Mom whose parental rights were terminated by an Arizona judge,
to son & 3 daughters, now in foster care & awaiting adoption in AZ.

Hard to sort it all out and there's bound to be compromises to someone.
Despite differing views we may have, I'm sure all of us want the best of all these children.

 

[Trino]

What does the father have to do with it? Whether there is a father in the picture or not, it's still her child.

I hope we're not back to a point in his country where we stigmatize single mothers, to the point where we would say a child is better off taken away from its single bio mom?!

This is not about single mothers but about another possible parent who might also assume responsibility for the boy. Nothing in the story says she is a single mother. Certainly a father has love and responsibility for a child. Is he with her other two children in Guatamala? There's a lot we don't know about this story.

Not to confuse these two stories...
Story II is about another woman in the same circumstances. The story states the father was with the other children when she was arrested for leaving her disabled son home alone. These children, too, were placed in foster care and are up for adoption. All indications in Story II are there is definitely a father, yet there is no word about him fighting for their return. We have no idea where the disabled child is. Again, there's a lot the media has not presented.

 

[al66pine]

Link
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/ice-st...ry?id=15490256

"ICE will typically not detain individuals who are the primary caretakers of children, unless the individual is legally subjected to mandatory detention based on the severity of their criminal or immigration history.

"ICE is sensitive to the fact that encountering those who violate our immigration laws may impact families. ICE uses prosecutorial discretion in releasing individuals from ICE custody for humanitarian reasons such as being the sole caregiver of minors and when we are aware that the detention of a non-criminal alien would result in any child (U.S. citizen or not) being left without a parental caregiver. We take great strides to evaluate cases that warrant humanitarian release.
My bolding.

Re Carlitos/Jamison in MO., his bio-mother was convicted of identity theft and was sentenced to two years
(not illegal entry into the US from what I've read).
I do not know if or how ICE may have bn involved in her case, except for the initial raid on the plant where she worked,
so this ICE stmt may or may not apply to her situation.

 

[Trino]

http://www.courts.mo.gov/file.jsp?id=43941

I just read the court case as posted by al55ppine. It does not appear to me the mother is a candidate for Mother of the Year. The boy was malnourished, in poor health, and the conditions under which he lived were terrible.

From ICE:
"ICE will typically not detain individuals who are the primary caretakers of children, unless the individual is legally subjected to mandatory detention based on the severity of their criminal or immigration history."

The adoptive parents tried to do the right thing. They filed the required documents with the court requesting a temporary custody order, termination of parental rights and the adoption of Carlos. Although the law only requires a 6 month waiting time, the Mosers, still desiring to do things right, chose to give the process a full year before having the adoption finalized.

While I know love conquers all, there are other things that help, too. The average income in Guatamala, where the mother has stated she intends to return the boy, is $5,000 per year. It has the lowest literacy rate in Central America. There is uncontrolled drug and alien smuggling at the Guatemalan border with Mexico. Guatemala has one of the highest violent crime rates in Latin America. Guatemala's public hospitals frequently experience serious shortages of basic medicines and equipment. Sources available if you want them...

 

[Gardenlady]

But what does crime in Guatemala have to do with the fact that this mother's child was wrongly taken from her?! And what about crime in our own country? Should we forcibly take children away from mothers who happen to live in high crime areas?

And if he was malnourished, perhaps it was because they were poor? This indicates a need for help and services, sure - but it should not be a reason to take a child away.

I'm going to do a bit more deeper reading on this case... Thanks to all for all the links above.

 

[Trino]

But what does crime in Guatemala have to do with the fact that this mother's child was wrongly taken from her?! And what about crime in our own country? Should we forcibly take children away from mothers who happen to live in high crime areas?

And if he was malnourished, perhaps it was because they were poor? This indicates a need for help and services, sure - but it should not be a reason to take a child away.

I'm going to do a bit more deeper reading on this case... Thanks to all for all the links above.

I'm just thinking about the conditions under which this boy might live. Would there be anyone to investigate the boy's home conditions if he were returned to Guatamala? Do we know she's not involved in crime there? Will he be sent to school? Will he have adequate health care? Will he again be mal-nourished? (There is access in the US to the last three items.)

He was born in the US and is a citizen.

 

[Jacie Estes]

There is a lot of not so subtle racism and classism in that article. Insinuations that the child would automatically be better off here in the US than in Guatemala, etc.

Being undocumented doesn't make one an unfit parent. This woman was working what sounds like a not very pleasant job, to provide for herself and her child, when she was arrested. Then separated from that child by an unmerciful government for no good reason at all.

I don't know how to solve a mess like this. This child is now bonded with the adoptive parents, but that should not mean that his mother has no rights at all, but what will happen to him if he is taken from the only family he has ever known? A gradual turnover to the mother seems the best way to handle it. What a horrendous thing done to this poor woman and child.

BBM I agree with you about this. If the mother were a US citizen and enrolled then this would be an ICWA matter; instead she is an alien and so is not covered by ICWA protection. This child should be raised within his culture, not by people who can buy a child and a good attorney. I've never understood the fascination of adopting a child who is not culturally/racially the same as the adoptive parents. There are enough children in foster care who are desperately looking for families. This bio mother should not have had her parental rights taken away.

 

[Trino]

BBM I agree with you about this. If the mother were a US citizen and enrolled then this would be an ICWA matter; instead she is an alien and so is not covered by ICWA protection. This child should be raised within his culture, not by people who can buy a child and a good attorney. I've never understood the fascination of adopting a child who is not culturally/racially the same as the adoptive parents. There are enough children in foster care who are desperately looking for families. This bio mother should not have had her parental rights taken away.

More background. She was living with her brother, his wife, and their three children in one bedroom. When she was jailed, the child was cared for by the sister of the mother. The mother's sister had two children, also all slept in one bedroom. After a while, she could not care for him.

The mother's sister asked local clergy about caring for the boy. The clergy knew the adopted parents who apparently lived nearby and were looking to adopt. They did NOT go about adopting a culturally/racially diverse child. At first, they visited the boy, then kept him briefly, finally fostering him, then a year later, asked to adopt him. They did NOT intentionally go after a culturally/racially mixed child. The adopted parents did NOT buy a child nor do they have a fancy attorney. Please read the court case.

 

[Gardenlady]

Wow. I just read the court decision and the two concurring ones as well, and I have to say I'm absolutely apalled that this adoption was allowed to go through in the first place. And i can't even begin to say what I think of the Davenport woman and the "clergy couple" (who were not the mother's clergy) without risking a time out. unfreakinbelievable. :furious:

I completely agree with the two concurring opinions, and I think instead of remanding this case back, they should have flat out reversed and began to get a plan underway NOW for reuniting this mother and child.

This is like a case of cultural imperialism on the family level. I'm sick for this mother after reading all the details.

 

[Gardenlady]

More background. She was living with her brother, his wife, and their three children in one bedroom. When she was jailed, the child was cared for by the sister of the mother. The mother's sister had two children, also all slept in one bedroom. After a while, she could not care for him.

The mother's sister asked local clergy about caring for the boy. The clergy knew the adopted parents who apparently lived nearby and were looking to adopt. They did NOT go about adopting a culturally/racially diverse child. At first, they visited the boy, then kept him briefly, finally fostering him, then a year later, asked to adopt him. They did NOT intentionally go after a culturally/racially mixed child. The adopted parents did NOT buy a child nor do they have a fancy attorney. Please read the court case.

It is not true that the sister asked the clergy to care for the child. The sister and her husband, like millions of other parents in this country, both work full time and require child care. Suddenly one day the sister goes to celery couples house and they tell her they no longer have the child! Who the heck gave them the right to give that child to anyone else and keep him from his aunt?!

 

[LolaMoon08]

As a parent, I think this story is just awful. However, I can not understand trading one child for another....she is fine with leaving her kids in Guatemala....she is apparently not interested in reconnecting with them, and them all being one big happy family.However, she is ok with jerking her American son away from the family who has loved him fed him, took care of him when he was ill. What truly makes one a mother...is it giving birth, or is it changing diapers, making bottles, kissing away boo-boo's, sitting up when they are ill, clothing them, feeding them...I could go on and on. If I read the above posts correctly...she was given visitation, but has declined to participate in that? That is not a mother, a real mother would be there every chance she had, she'd consider her child first, above herself, and know that it would be very traumatic at his age to be taken by a stranger. She agrees to never see her children in Guatemala again if she can just have this child back. Anchor babies, I believe is the term they use for babies born in America to parents illegally in our country. The child assures the parents can remain here. I feel horrible she lost her baby, but the parents who have loved and raised that child, are in his little heart his true parents. Her actions make me wonder if getting him back would just lead to another tragedy. A mother who can flee a country and leave her children behind.....agree to never see them again....what kind of a mother would she be to this little boy, I have to ask myself.......I can't in anyway see how she could be "in the best interest of a child".

You can say this because you are AMERICAN born, right? We as AMERICAN women have so many rights above what you see in any other country. One of my very best friends is from Brazil and her children are there.. does that mean she doesn't love them with every ounce of her soul? No. She loves them every minute, of every day, and she suffers... she is doing what she needs to do to get her citizenship here in AMERICA. The Land of the FREE and the HOME of the BRAVE!

Anyone who really KNOWS their HISTORY and what THEIR family has DONE to be in this COUNTRY (other than NATIVE AMERICANS *which I am too*) should UNDERSTAND what is going on.

None of us HERE are NATIVE and we should have a hell of a lot more compassion for WOMEN wanting a better life for their children!

 

[LolaMoon08]

People think that the worst crime in the world is wanting to bring their children to a country that prides themselves on FREEDOM!

My ancestors from my fathers side are from Ireland. Do a little reasearch and you will maybe undertand why my grandparents wanted to come to AMERICA!

Now, my mothers side is MORE than AMERICAN. My GREAT GRANDMOTHER is full blooded NATIVE AMERICAN and did she EVER condemn my grandfather from marrying a NON-NATIVE? No!

 

[LolaMoon08]

My Q. to Still Seeks Answers (or any sleuther here):

Maybe I missed the article or family you mentioned, w. children left behind in Guatemala?
Which family, pls?

Thx in Adv.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETA: found the answer and will post downthread.

It's two different articles, right? One that lost 4 children (girls) and this woman who lost her son? That is where I am confused? Was the boy born here in the United States? Or was he born in Guatemala? I know the girls in the other mothers case were born here in America? It appears that he was born here too, but does it really excuse them completely taking the mothers parental rights away and placing this poor little boy up for adoption? It just doesn't seem right, imo?

 

[RoseRed]

You can say this because you are AMERICAN born, right? We as AMERICAN women have so many rights above what you see in any other country. One of my very best friends is from Brazil and her children are there.. does that mean she doesn't love them with every ounce of her soul? No. She loves them every minute, of every day, and she suffers... she is doing what she needs to do to get her citizenship here in AMERICA. The Land of the FREE and the HOME of the BRAVE!

Anyone who really KNOWS their HISTORY and what THEIR family has DONE to be in this COUNTRY (other than NATIVE AMERICANS *which I am too*) should UNDERSTAND what is going on.

None of us HERE are NATIVE and we should have a hell of a lot more compassion for WOMEN wanting a better life for their children!

I do not have any compassion for anyone who comes to this country 3 times illegally, uses a false id and most likely stolen ID from an innocent person. We should have a 3 strike and you are in prison for the rest of your life. Perhaps these illegal aliens would stop and only come to this country legally. That would stop a lot of crime, stolen id crime and lower the population as they come here and breed like rabbits while our tax dollars pay for there food, rent and medical care. Off my rant now.

 

[al66pine]

In OP's first link: the first in the series of 5 articles, states:
“…critics say is a growing trend in which immigrants are being deemed unfit parents because they crossed the border illegally….” BBM.

The attached slide show caption states:
“The tug-of-war between the five-year-old's birth mother and his adoptive parents is just one example of what happens when the enforcement of immigration law separates children from their parents.” BBM.

Sorry, I believe both statements are at best vast oversimplifications, or distortions of the truth,
if not outright untruths/lies, as they apply to Carlitos/Jamison and case in MO.

Re termination of parental rights (TPR) & adoption proceedings, the Mo. trial court did not deem bio-mom unfit
because of her illegal entry into the US.; the court noted her criminal conviction for identity theft.

Identity theft convictn. = not basis for trial ct’s terminating bio-mom’s parental rights; it also found:
,,,,,,,“…Child had been malnourished, was developmentally delayed,
,,,,,,was behind on his immunizations, and that Mother failed to obtain
......a birth certificate for Child to obtain WIC services.”

As Trino posted, Carlitos bio-mom was not Mother of the Year. But that was not basis for TPR.
(& as I understand ct opn., wd. not be basis for TPR whether bio-mom is native born US citizen or illegal immigrant).

Based on evd supplied by prospective adoptive parents's atty, trial ct. found bio-mom abandoned the boy.
Not by her being incarcerated for id theft, but by failing to provide for, arrange for care of boy. After her arrest,
Bio-mom's bro & sis nearby took care of boy for ~ 3 mo's.
Then there was some evd. that sis turned boy over to the 'clergy couple' who in turn, contacted eventual adopting couple.
Within a weeek or so of that contact, couple filed in ct for custody, for TPR, and for adoption of boy.

See my next post re Mo. Sup Ct decision.
If I have mis-interpret'ed Mo Sup Ct decision, someone, pls PM to let me know, and/or post to explain.
Repeating some links from my post #22:
adoptive parents, family & friends’ site.................................................................http://www.intheinterestofjamison.com/
From that site'‘s Jan 25, 2011 update, you can link Mo. Sup Ct’s opinion re Carlitos/Jamison.
(I’m not sure if the following works as a link.............................................................................................................. http://www.courts.mo.gov/file.jsp?id=43941)
Immigrations & Customs Enforcement stmt on these family situations................................................................. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/ice-st...ry?id=15490

 

[al66pine]

Following my last post re bio-mom who entered US illegally and was convicted for identity theft and had parental rights terminated and her son Carlito's adopted.

TPR & adoption proceedings were started in Oct. 2007 and adoption 'final' ~ year later.
Bio-mom's attack on that was filed way past legal deadline, but ct granted exception.

Holy moley. Mo Sup Ct. wrote 92 pages ---
--For majority to say: trial was so badly bungled procedurally (1. adoptive parents did not put on sufficient evd that bio-mom abandoned child; 2. bio-mom did not get sufficient oppty to put on evd that she did not abandon child; 3. bio-mom had ineffective counsel; even tho Guardian ad Litem (GAL) was appted for child),
we have to remand for new trial on TPR issue;
--For the 2 dissenters to say: there was insufficient evd (of bio-mom's abandonmt of child) to show basis for TPR, adoptive parents must return Carlitos/Jamison to bio-mom, no need for new trial.

Result of Sup Ct opn: ........ bio-mom gets second opprty (at new trial) to put on evd she did not abandon child &
.................................adoptive parents get oppty to put on evd that bio-mom did abandon child.
Poss. outcome: ................after trial, depending on evd., ct may return child to bio-mom.

Sad for everyone involved that this has bn so long and drawn out.

 

[Gardenlady]

I do not have any compassion for anyone who comes to this country 3 times illegally, uses a false id and most likely stolen ID from an innocent person. We should have a 3 strike and you are in prison for the rest of your life. Perhaps these illegal aliens would stop and only come to this country legally. That would stop a lot of crime, stolen id crime and lower the population as they come here and breed like rabbits while our tax dollars pay for there food, rent and medical care. Off my rant now.

This has to be the ugliest bit of racist know-nothingism that I've read on these boards. :furious:

I'm glad you said it though, because now maybe everyone will see the real reason behind the anti-immigration sentiment that's been fueled by the right wing's rhetoric over the last decade.

 

[BuzzieCat]

I'm not cool with the identity theft aspect of this case. That really hurts those who get their identity stolen. If they ever need to apply for, say, unemployment benefits, they can't because the illegal immigrant is using their identity to work. It's very difficult for such an identity theft victim to prove to the gov't that they are not this other person who is using their identity. The victim may never be able to get it fully straightened out.

 

[not_my_kids]

This has to be one of the hardest cases for me to form an opinion about. Ir ead, I googled, I explored links, and I really think that the child should stay with his parents. Not a stranger that he barely knows. His parents. His mother should be immediately deported. She has other children to care for in her home country, and after years, an adoption, and a huge language and cultural barrier, she has already lost this child. In 13 more years, he can look for her, if he so wishes. But for now, he has a safe home, with parents that love him, care for him, and can provide for him. They are presumably not involved in any illegal activity, and they are willing to fight for him. The mother on the other hand, was here illegally, got caught, and paid the price for it. And while she was paying that price, another family took her child, loved him, cared for him, kept him out of the cycle of poverty, and gave him a chance at a better life.

I hope that she will have the good grace to say nothing more than Thank You, and go home. Not that she didn't give birth to him, but that is where her involvement with him ended, besides involving him in a potentially dangerous lifestyle, and facilitating his movement between several different households, by way of her illegal actions. I am amazed that this has gone this far in the court system, and hopefully it will go no further.
JMO.

 

[Hopeful One]

BBM I agree with you about this. If the mother were a US citizen and enrolled then this would be an ICWA matter; instead she is an alien and so is not covered by ICWA protection. This child should be raised within his culture, not by people who can buy a child and a good attorney. I've never understood the fascination of adopting a child who is not culturally/racially the same as the adoptive parents. There are enough children in foster care who are desperately looking for families. This bio mother should not have had her parental rights taken away.

What on earth does that matter? You're saying that a white couple shouldn't adopt a black child?? You know, some people don't see color. They just see an innocent child in need of parents.