Stranger abduction theory

[gliving]

http://www.kptv.com/news/22958660/detail.html

"We do have a gang problem and it does create a lot of fear in the community," he said.

Passadore said children, including gang members' relatives, are being targeted more often in revenge shootings.

In one incident, a gunman knocked on a family's door near Southeast 85th Avenue and Brooklyn Street. Police said an 11-year-old boy asked who was there and the gunman fired several rounds through the door, narrowly missing the boy.

Officers said three other children also lived at the home, including a 2-month-old baby. Police are still looking for the gunman, who was seen fleeing in a four-door, silver car.

"(It's) absolutely unacceptable in any circumstance. But when you hear about it being done to an 11-year-old, it’s almost unheard of," Passadore said.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

Gates stated that there's a low level need for the public to be alarmed. Not no need - but a low level need. It was after the CNN isolated case article. I'll get the quote and link if you like. Just holler. It was a press conference.

Thanks BeanE, I did just see that recently, and yes, he did say that.

 

[mmmagique]

With regards to the gang activity and also with TY, I feel we are searching for a zebra when there are lots of ponies running around.

Not that it couldn't be a zebra, but it's much more likely to be one of the ponies, imoo.

 

[Donjeta]

I'm not that knowledgeable about gangs but I don't picture them sneaking surreptitiously at schools stealing children, more like driving past the school bus stop and gunning them down.

 

[Barry]

The other thing that comes to mind with the gang theory, is that in order to have retaliated for something, or to use someone as an example and prove that you don't mess around with them, they would at least need to get the word out to someone that they were responsible for doing it. IMO, silent revenge wouldn't really buy them much, especially given the risks of getting caught. Also, IMO, I think even gangs value their prestige to some extent. Taking and killing a 7 year old child is not something I think the average gang would want their name associated with.

This is all JMO.

 

[Solstice Canyon]

Since I can't ETA this to my earlier post, I just wanted to add that it was the Cole Puffinberger case that I had in mind from Nevada, where drug-related involvement of the grandfather had led to Cole's kidnapping. Thankfully, he was returned safely.

 

[cluciano63]

The only "gang" LE seems interested in is Terri's motley crew of comrades.

 

[Calliope]

Wouldn't it be great to see a poll of all the parents of the school. See if they think it might have been a stranger abduction, or Terry?

I'd have liked to see them polled a month ago and again in a couple of weeks.

 

[gitana1]

What posters are linking to regarding gang retaliation shows retaliation against other gang members and their families. Tony is not a gang member.

Regarding what the parents of Kyron's school mates think, I do not get the sense that there is panic in that community at all. My sense is the majority of parents feel Kyron was disappeared by his step-mother somehow.
However, if I was a parent there and heard the little boy's report of a schoolteacher and aide discussing Kyron being missing from the group, then assuming he went for a drink and then not sounding the alarm after he never reappeared, I would be hopping mad and would demand answers, in detail, before my kid went back to school.
I have not heard of any fears or outrage on the part of parents of returning school kids which makes me assume they have been briefed by the school and are satisfied. I'd like to know if that's the case. No news reports. In any event, no matter how Kyron disappeared, I would want reassurance that the story of this child is incorrect and that the school employees have strict policies in place to track the kids. Because if true, another child could conceivably go missing one day, or a kid could get injured and unaided in a bathroom somewhere, or wander off the grounds, etc.. I would be very angry to know that the absence of a student was noted and then flatly ignored even when he failed to reappear from wherever they assumed he was (getting a drink).

 

[cluciano63]

I'm concerned about TP's story too...some of it must be true, even if he had the times wrong. I don't think he could have invented that entire exchange with the teacher/adult/sub/whoever she was. That is very troubling indeed.

 

[liz b.]

I don't think someone just walked into the school that morning, and abducted Kyron on the spur of the moment..The probabliity of that is quite small... IMO, it was someone who was very familiar with the physical layout of the school,and also the school protocols and routines. Most importantly, he would be familiar with the different routine of the school on Science Fair day.... And,IIRC, this was actually the first Science Fair that TH and Kyron would have participated in at Skyline Elementary. I do feel that Kyron was targeted. Maybe because of his physical type,his size,his shyness...

Hopefully, LE searched any freezers or refrigerators on the premises of Skyline Elementary.


I keep going back to LE's statement about Kyron : " he was last seen INSIDE the school, and he was not seen after that " ( paraphrasing here ). This really is baffling.....


All JMO

 

[BeanE]

What posters are linking to regarding gang retaliation shows retaliation against other gang members and their families. Tony is not a gang member.

Looks like you may have missed the link that started the conversation:

Yes, gang revenge.

Medford police Detective Tony Young said he hopes that message will resonate within the community and that people will understand gang violence will not be tolerated.

"I think the judge sent a message with this verdict," said Young. "Read between the lines. (Reyes-Real) lost the best years of his life over a stupid act."

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080822/NEWS/808220340

The premise of the conversation is that this may have been retaliation by a gang because Tony, as LE, was involved in prosecuting gang members.

 

[Jack]

Haven't read this whole thread yet but since it is titled "Stranger Abduction Theory" I'm going to jump in with both feet.

Right now I'm feeling there is a 50% chance that Kyron was abducted by a stranger, a real stranger. It is possible that with the school being in such close proximity to a road and because there were so many extra people around that day, that Kyron was abducted by a stranger. A couple possible scenarios comes to mind. Early on I asked whether anyone knew if there had been any delivery men there that morning. The milk man for instance would not stick out, and people who make regular deliveries generally have their own access cards/keys to open the doors they use for deliveries. So what if someone like the milkman was making a delivery that morning? What if the milkman (or any other type of delivery man) was a pedophile or knew how to sell a child to someone and needed money? What if Kyron decided he had enough time to go back and see a favorite exhibit and cut through the cafeteria to get there and came into the path of a deliveryman who could have easily grabbed him and thrown in in the back of a truck unnoticed and drove off with him? It would seem as though he just vanished and there would have been no-one who saw him leave the building.

Another theory I have had is that someone could have grabbed Kyron from a door way. You know every school I have ever been in has big double doors with windows at the end of every hallway and at ground level in some stairways going down to a lower level. They usually open from the inside only when locked. I think it is very possible someone could have been lurking around checking out the school and saw Kyron walking by himself and decided to take a chance by waving him over to the door and then saying something like 'I had gone outside for some fresh air or to smoke but needs to go say good bye to my little girl before leaving, would you open the door so I don't have to walk all the way around front to get in because the science fair is going to end in a few minutes and my daughter will be upset if I don't say goodbye'. Kyron being a nice kid would probably comply and when the door opened the guy could grab his arm, pull him out and run/drag him to a nearby house or car and be gone. Big chance of being seen, but no more of a chance than TH being seen.

I think there is about a 25% chance of a stranger/aquaintance taking Kyron under false pretenses. What do you think Kyron would do if a classmates father said to him that he needed some help carrying in some snacks he was bringing for his childs birthday that day? Do you think he might go with him if he had seen this person talk to his father at the local department store?

I am leaving open a 25% chance that TH had something to do with Kyron disappearing. That 25% includes the chance of either willful homicide or an accidental injury then panic to cover it up. Kyron may have forgotten something and ran out the doors to try to catch up with TH and ran right out onto Skyline and been hit by TH in that big truck then panic took over and she fled with him rather than calling 911. That actually could apply in the other two scenarios also.

 

[gliving]

The premise of the conversation is that this may have been retaliation by a gang because Tony, as LE, was involved in prosecuting gang members.

Thanks to those who gave me feedback on my gang theory. It's what makes WS cool, that we can all contribute to either firm up or discount multiple theories.

 

[BeanE]

I just came across this while I was looking for something totally unrelated, so I wanted to note it here for reference. It's a quote from Kaine from June 25. Note that this is *after* LE's statement that Terri was the last person seen with Kyron before he disappeared. It just jumped out at me that Kaine says Terri is "one of" the last, rather than last.

Kaine Horman: No. She was one of the last people who saw him that day. It just helped associate things that were seen along with him on that particular day, so no.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24037975/detail.html

 

[BeanE]

Posting for reference regarding Kyron and going off with adults. There's more in the video, but this is all I've transcribed.

June 25 KGW Full Raw Interview -5:05

Kaine: We've had some concerns...

Desiree: Yeah.

Kaine: ...along with his teacher around listening to instructions from adults while at school.

So we've been working with him to try to understand that we need to work with the faculty there, the parents there, the volunteers there to make sure that when they give him instructions he's following those.

He normally does a very good job at doing that. Just occasionally we get a little bit of that behavior so we've really reinforced with him that if you're at school and you're working with a parent or a teacher, you need to follow their instructions.

So in that particular environment he would be expected to follow the instructions of an adult...

Desiree: Yeah.

Kaine: ...at school. Outside of school he's very well versed in the stranger danger and everything else, but in that one particular setting that's the type of behavior that's been reinforced through all of us.

Desiree: Yeah.

Note: Desiree nods affirmatively throughout this whole thing.

http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Raw-Kyrons-parents-full-interview-97177194.html

 

[wildmala]

IIRC, the class was broken into groups shortly after 8:45 to tour the exhibits. Presumably the teacher led one group. At 10AM, as the chaperone's (and teacher) were returning their young charges to the classroom, the one shepherding Kyron's group around realized he was not there (ASSUMING THE CHILD WHO REPORTED THIS CORRECTLY). This would assume that the chaperone not only had 6 kids to begin with, but knew that one of them was Kyron, and that the one missing at the end was Kyron. So who interviewed the chaperone?

I think this is such an important part of the timeline. We keep hearing that "Terri was the last one to see Kyron". So did the chaperone have Kyron at the beginning of the tour when they did the count? They obviously knew at 10 am that Kyron wasn't with them and should have been...so obviously they knew he was part of the group (or supposed to be) at some point. So did they SEE him in the beginning when they were assigned their groups? If so, maybe THAT person was the last person to see him at the school...
I'm sure the kids that were in that group could recall if Kyron was with them while they were walking around...at least in the beginning. I haven't heard anything about comments from the other children that were in his assigned group. I'm sure LE has talked to them, though.

 

[Herding Cats]

Here's a plausible situation which accounts for some of the more difficult aspects of the case.

Kyron waves to TH, and says "see ya, Mom." Walks down the hallway, to his classroom. Goes into a group so he can "tour" the science fair. He's going along, looking at things, and realizes he has to pee. Asks teacher for permission, goes to the bathroom, and meets the perp there.

The perp says "hey, I was just looking for you. I need a good strong helper right now, to bring something to my car, and your teacher said to get you." Kyron, who has been disciplined in the past for NOT listening to directions from adults and teachers, thinks "wow, I'd better help. Teacher said to, and Mom and Dad will be mad if I don't."

Off Kyron goes to "help" the perp...out to the perp's car, and disappears. His classmate notices he's gone, says something to the teacher/sub/chaperone, and they respond with "yes, he's in the bathroom. He'll be along shortly." Class gets started, and no one realizes he's missing. Teacher drops the ball for whatever reason, and voila, Kyron is with the stranger for hours before he's noted as gone.

And the trail is cold.

To me, that's about as simple and easy as it gets. Since we don't know where he was taken from, and we do know kids get snatched from inside school (no matter how rare it is...), this could easily be how it happened. And there are cases where just this sort of thing has happened...

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[cluciano63]

I saw in the Missing forum today that police in California are now saying that nurse Phuong Le may have been murdered by a stranger. For a while there, all of the focus was on the family friend who may have been her lover, his home searched, etc.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

IIRC, the class was broken into groups shortly after 8:45 to tour the exhibits. Presumably the teacher led one group. At 10AM, as the chaperone's (and teacher) were returning their young charges to the classroom, the one shepherding Kyron's group around realized he was not there (ASSUMING THE CHILD WHO REPORTED THIS CORRECTLY). This would assume that the chaperone not only had 6 kids to begin with, but knew that one of them was Kyron, and that the one missing at the end was Kyron. So who interviewed the chaperone?

also assuming the child reported correctly - the conversation between the volunteer and this un-named teacher could have happened at the start of the tour or at anytime between the time kyron was assigned to her (the volunteer) and the time the teacher marked him absent...and in my opinion, whether this conversation happened at the start of the tour or the middle or the end doesn't matter.

What's important, to me, is the volunteer knew kyron was assigned to her group of kids - and at some point after she was assigned kyron - she noticed him missing and SHE REPORTED KYRON MISSING in a very timely manner - to a teacher.