Tape on Jon Benets mouth - New info

[RUCertain]

^I really don't feel good joking around like that. I'm a firm RDI.

 

[questfortrue]

I doubt they were describing a coat . As for the mention of "beaver" fur, I know I just read about that, possibly ACandy?

Eta: there is also a picture from the Ws party showing what PR was wearing that night. Evidence of what she was dressed in the night of the 25th. I doubt they took pics of people on their coats.

ACR-photo 049:
0304-12) THOMAS HANEY: How about a fur coat, did you have fur coats? PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, I had fur coats. THOMAS HANEY: Was it at the house or in storage or -- PATSY RAMSEY: It was at the house, black mink. THOMAS HANEY: Mink, okay. How about boots, gloves, jackets, other things that would have had fur on it? PATSY RAMSEY: There is a leather jacket that has a fur lining, men's leather jacket. It was John's. It was reversible. THOMAS HANEY: Do you know what type of fur that would have been? PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it was like real low cut, black shiny pile. THOMAS HANEY: Was it real fur? PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. THOMAS HANEY: Real fur? Okay. And he had gloves, hats?

I think PR is referencing closely sheared pile. Hmm, some companies do make reversible beaver fur/leather jackets. http://www.furhatworld.com/mens-rev...135_a_7c2798&gclid=COKGl6eB6b0CFQaBfgodSSYAGw

 

[bettybaby00]

ACR-photo 049:
0304-12) THOMAS HANEY: How about a fur coat, did you have fur coats? PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, I had fur coats. THOMAS HANEY: Was it at the house or in storage or -- PATSY RAMSEY: It was at the house, black mink. THOMAS HANEY: Mink, okay. How about boots, gloves, jackets, other things that would have had fur on it? PATSY RAMSEY: There is a leather jacket that has a fur lining, men's leather jacket. It was John's. It was reversible. THOMAS HANEY: Do you know what type of fur that would have been? PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it was like real low cut, black shiny pile. THOMAS HANEY: Was it real fur? PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. THOMAS HANEY: Real fur? Okay. And he had gloves, hats?

I think PR is referencing closely sheared pile. Hmm, some companies do make reversible beaver fur/leather jackets. http://www.furhatworld.com/mens-rev...135_a_7c2798&gclid=COKGl6eB6b0CFQaBfgodSSYAGw

Back in the '90s coats/jackets with beaver fur collars were very popular.

 

[gramcracker]

PR wore fur boots while providing one of her handwriting exemplars

 

[gramcracker]

TDM: Do you recall that night what footwear you had on?

PR: No, I don't. I really don't know.

TDM: Could you guess what you would have been wearing with that outfit? Was it the same -- you were going to wear the same outfit the next day on the plane, is that --

PR: Well, probably these little black boots kind of things that were kind of ankle boots.

TDM: Were those the furry ones?

PR: Furry? No, no, they were the leather like shoe boots, kind of more like shoes than boots, but I can't say for sure.

TDM: And what brand were those?

PR: I don't know. I got them at Lundstrum's, I think.

TDM: Okay.

PR: (Inaudible.) Or were they tennis shoes? I'll look again.

TDM: Did you have a pair of white socks on?

PR: I was trying to think. Looks like that was attached to me or attached to the rug or something. Kind of looks like that. I could have had white socks on underneath the --

TDM: Uh-huh (yes).

PR: -- shoes.

TDM: Shoes. Does that help refresh your recollection about what shoes you were wearing?

PR: No.

TDM: Okay.

[snip]

PR: Looks like a little button there, I guess (inaudible) button (inaudible). The reason I'm looking so hard at this is because Priscilla had a jacket like this. I mean, until I saw this picture, I had thought that I had worn my Christmas sweater to their house, the little bobbly one. And then I saw this picture and I said oh, I must have worn that sweater to their house. But then I thought, well, maybe I had her jacket. I mean, you know, I don't know. I was just trying to figure out, this was certainly the one I sent, I sent mine out there, but I just want to make sure that --

TDM: That you were wearing yours on Christmas and not hers?

PR: Well, I mean, I could have been in her house in the living room, you know, what I mean, and been cold and she said here put this on. I just can't remember. My point is that we both had jackets similar to that.

TDM: Okay.

PR: So I don't know.

TDM: And did you buy them at the same time and place?

PR: No, I mean, I don't know, I don't know when she got me that. I really don't remember. FYI, I mean.

TDM: So can you tell if that's your jacket you're wearing or --

PR: This one, you mean?

TDM: Were they the exact same?

PR: They were pretty close, but I can't, I can't really remember.

TDM: Uh-huh (yes).

PR: Why I would have hers on. All I'm saying is mine -- first time somebody asked me what I had on that day, I think I might have said I had my Christmas sweater on which is the bobbly --

TDM: Uh-huh (yes).

PR: -- little beaded one. And then when I saw this picture, somebody showed me this picture --

TDM: Uh-huh (yes).

PR: -- because they wanted the clothing, I said oh, I must have worn that one, so I got that one instead. I think I sent both of them, actually.

TDM: You sent both of them?

PR: The bobbly beaded one or whatever. I think actually I -- I know I wore that one on the 23rd. Can I see that one?

TDM: Oh, sure. So the one you sent us, was that hers, or yours?

PR: No, it was mine.

[snip]

TH: Okay. From a police perspective or an investigative standpoint, you don't start out in left field, you start at home plate.

PR: Okay.

TH: And you go from there.

PR: All right.

TH: Because on the night of the 25th, there were four people in that house?

PR: What?

TH: I am saying when you went to bed there were four people?

PR: We don't know that.

TH: What do you think?

PR: I have always thought that perhaps while we were gone, that the person or persons came into the house and were there when we got back.

TH: What makes you think that?

PR: Because we were gone several hours, and they could have had their way with the house. Have known where flashlights were, where pads of paper were, where bibles were, where Christmas cards were, where -- you know. If we are gone three or four hours. No one knows for sure.

TH: Well, somebody knows?

PR: Somebody knows, you're damn right somebody knows, and I want to find that.

http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

 

[RUCertain]

TDM: Do you recall that night what footwear you had on?

PR: No, I don't. I really don't know.

TDM: Could you guess what you would have been wearing with that outfit? Was it the same -- you were going to wear the same outfit the next day on the plane, is that --

PR: Well, probably these little black boots kind of things that were kind of ankle boots.

TDM: Were those the furry ones?

PR: Furry? No, no, they were the leather like shoe boots, kind of more like shoes than boots, but I can't say for sure.

TDM: And what brand were those?

PR: I don't know. I got them at Lundstrum's, I think.

TDM: Okay.

PR: (Inaudible.) Or were they tennis shoes? I'll look again.

TDM: Did you have a pair of white socks on?

PR: I was trying to think. Looks like that was attached to me or attached to the rug or something. Kind of looks like that. I could have had white socks on underneath the --

TDM: Uh-huh (yes).

PR: -- shoes.

TDM: Shoes. Does that help refresh your recollection about what shoes you were wearing?

PR: No.

TDM: Okay.

[snip]

PR: Looks like a little button there, I guess (inaudible) button (inaudible). The reason I'm looking so hard at this is because Priscilla had a jacket like this. I mean, until I saw this picture, I had thought that I had worn my Christmas sweater to their house, the little bobbly one. And then I saw this picture and I said oh, I must have worn that sweater to their house. But then I thought, well, maybe I had her jacket. I mean, you know, I don't know. I was just trying to figure out, this was certainly the one I sent, I sent mine out there, but I just want to make sure that --

TDM: That you were wearing yours on Christmas and not hers?

PR: Well, I mean, I could have been in her house in the living room, you know, what I mean, and been cold and she said here put this on. I just can't remember. My point is that we both had jackets similar to that.

TDM: Okay.

PR: So I don't know.

TDM: And did you buy them at the same time and place?

PR: No, I mean, I don't know, I don't know when she got me that. I really don't remember. FYI, I mean.

TDM: So can you tell if that's your jacket you're wearing or --

PR: This one, you mean?

TDM: Were they the exact same?

PR: They were pretty close, but I can't, I can't really remember.

TDM: Uh-huh (yes).

PR: Why I would have hers on. All I'm saying is mine -- first time somebody asked me what I had on that day, I think I might have said I had my Christmas sweater on which is the bobbly --

TDM: Uh-huh (yes).

PR: -- little beaded one. And then when I saw this picture, somebody showed me this picture --

TDM: Uh-huh (yes).

PR: -- because they wanted the clothing, I said oh, I must have worn that one, so I got that one instead. I think I sent both of them, actually.

TDM: You sent both of them?

PR: The bobbly beaded one or whatever. I think actually I -- I know I wore that one on the 23rd. Can I see that one?

TDM: Oh, sure. So the one you sent us, was that hers, or yours?

PR: No, it was mine.

[snip]

TH: Okay. From a police perspective or an investigative standpoint, you don't start out in left field, you start at home plate.

PR: Okay.

TH: And you go from there.

PR: All right.

TH: Because on the night of the 25th, there were four people in that house?

PR: What?

TH: I am saying when you went to bed there were four people?

PR: We don't know that.

TH: What do you think?

PR: I have always thought that perhaps while we were gone, that the person or persons came into the house and were there when we got back.

TH: What makes you think that?

PR: Because we were gone several hours, and they could have had their way with the house. Have known where flashlights were, where pads of paper were, where bibles were, where Christmas cards were, where -- you know. If we are gone three or four hours. No one knows for sure.

TH: Well, somebody knows?

PR: Somebody knows, you're damn right somebody knows, and I want to find that.

http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

Interesting. Where did you find that interview?

Do you know why she mentioned Bibles in the list of things an "intruder" could have found?

 

[bettybaby00]

Her tone is always so weird to me....was reading from the beginning. Some of the phrases she uses are so.....F'up.

2 she was not in her bed. So I went over to these
3 stairs and yelled out for John, called to him
4 and he came down. And I said "she's been
5 kidnapped, here's a note," whatever. And I was
6 panicking, you know.

"Whatever"

And...

16 officer came up. And I remember thinking
17 because it said somewhere in the note, if you do
18 that, if you call somebody, that's not good.
19 Blah, blah, blah. And I just remembered

"Blah, blah, blah?"

Those 2 phrases are so dismissive. She's talking about finding a ransom note for her daughter, and has an attitude of "whatever," and "blah, blah, blah?????"

 

[Mama2JML]

Lou Smit, under oath, in Wolf v. Ramsey (01.09.02):

"Lou Smit: There are animal hairs that are found. There is a supposed beaver hair that is on the duct tape. There are also animal hairs found on her hand.

Lin Wood: On JonBenet's hand?

Smit: On JonBenet's hand.

Wood: Sourced to any item in the house or any individual in the house?

Smit: Sourced to no animal in the house or any item in the house.

Wood: Any effort made to try to ascertain whether there was any beaver hair or other type of animal hairs in the house since the initial days of investigation by the Boulder Police Department?

Smit: Yes. When we were at the Ramsey residence in the summer of 1997, Detective Ainsworth did actually take tape and taped the floors and all of the closets of the Ramsey home to see if there was any source in the closets of any type of animal hair, and he found none. Also the animal hairs were dark in color, brown and dark in color.

Wood: These were not white animal hairs?

Smit: These were not white animal hairs. This is not also generally known to the public."​

 

[DeDee]

Interesting. Where did you find that interview?

Do you know why she mentioned Bibles in the list of things an "intruder" could have found?

Hiya, RUCertain.

If you haven't discovered the wealth of information to be found at acandyrose website, it is worth the visit. The LE interviews, the list of evidence, transcripts, photos, who's who are found at:

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetindex.htm

PMPT Page 258

"Then the detectives asked me about the Bible on John's desk in the bedroom. The cover was embossed JOHN AND PATSY RAMSEY. Sometimes it was by the bed. It was always being read. I know because I never had to dust it. I told the police that I never saw it open, it always had a bookmark in it.
~ Linda Wilcox

ABC Moderator at 12:07pm ET:
Dana T writes: "Do you have any theories behind what S.B.T.C. signifies?"

Steve Thomas at 12:08pm ET:
"You know, we searched high and low, far and wide, and heard everything from "Saved By The Cross" to Ramsey's own suggestion of "Star Base Technical Command," but were never definitively able to attach a source to that acronym. However, an open Bible on Ramsey's desk in the house, NIV version, Psalms 35-36, verses 1-4, contains the acrostic SBTC, backwards."

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-sbtc.htm

 

[bettybaby00]

Lou Smit, under oath, in Wolf v. Ramsey (01.09.02):

"Lou Smit: There are animal hairs that are found. There is a supposed beaver hair that is on the duct tape. There are also animal hairs found on her hand.

Lin Wood: On JonBenet's hand?

Smit: On JonBenet's hand.

Wood: Sourced to any item in the house or any individual in the house?

Smit: Sourced to no animal in the house or any item in the house.

Wood: Any effort made to try to ascertain whether there was any beaver hair or other type of animal hairs in the house since the initial days of investigation by the Boulder Police Department?

Smit: Yes. When we were at the Ramsey residence in the summer of 1997, Detective Ainsworth did actually take tape and taped the floors and all of the closets of the Ramsey home to see if there was any source in the closets of any type of animal hair, and he found none. Also the animal hairs were dark in color, brown and dark in color.

Wood: These were not white animal hairs?

Smit: These were not white animal hairs. This is not also generally known to the public."​

ACR-photo 049:
0304-12) THOMAS HANEY: How about a fur coat, did you have fur coats? PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, I had fur coats. THOMAS HANEY: Was it at the house or in storage or -- PATSY RAMSEY: It was at the house, black mink. THOMAS HANEY: Mink, okay. How about boots, gloves, jackets, other things that would have had fur on it? PATSY RAMSEY: There is a leather jacket that has a fur lining, men's leather jacket. It was John's. It was reversible. THOMAS HANEY: Do you know what type of fur that would have been? PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it was like real low cut, black shiny pile. THOMAS HANEY: Was it real fur? PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. THOMAS HANEY: Real fur? Okay. And he had gloves, hats?

When Detective Trujillo mentioned that Patsy had worn a pair of fur boots at her latest handwriting appearance, he sparked my recollection that Melinda Ramsey’s boyfriend, Stewart Long, had told me that when he arrived at the house on December 26, Patsy was standing out in front, wearing a fur coat.

So someone is being less then truthful?

 

[gramcracker]

Interesting.Do you know why she mentioned Bibles in the list of things an "intruder" could have found?

interesting "tells", eh?

flashlights
pads of paper
bibles
Christmas cards
you know

I wish she had continued that train of thought

 

[bettybaby00]

interesting "tells", eh?

flashlights
pads of paper
bibles
Christmas cards
you know

I wish she had continued that train of thought

It's always helpful to have the evidence and case files before your questioned.

In addition to the bible being an odd thing to mention, why does she also mention christmas cards? I don't get it???

 

[otg]

It's always helpful to have the evidence and case files before your questioned.

Eggzactly. That's why the "intruder" was so prescient.

In addition to the bible being an odd thing to mention, why does she also mention christmas cards? I don't get it???

Don't 'ya know? That's how the prescient intruder learned how to mimic Patsy's handwriting enough to make the RN look like she might have penned it. Simples.

 

[gramcracker]

re the bible: she was asked what type of bible reader JR was. cover to cover or random verses? she said she did not know. odd, for people who proclaimed such strong religious beliefs and habits

 

[gramcracker]

Eggzactly. That's why the "intruder" was so prescient.

Don't 'ya know? That's how the prescient intruder learned how to mimic Patsy's handwriting enough to make the RN look like she might have penned it. Simples.

ah. I see, said the blindcracker :blushing:

 

[bettybaby00]

Eggzactly. That's why the "intruder" was so prescient.

Don't 'ya know? That's how the prescient intruder learned how to mimic Patsy's handwriting enough to make the RN look like she might have penned it. Simples.

:floorlaugh: I was reading old threads (is it this one?) and saw this running eggchange!!!

Wow! From just a few lines penned in a Christmas card the intruder was able to replicate Patsy's handwriting in his 3 page missive?

Eggceptional!!!!!

 

[4Jacy]

Her tone is always so weird to me....was reading from the beginning. Some of the phrases she uses are so.....F'up.

2 she was not in her bed. So I went over to these
3 stairs and yelled out for John, called to him
4 and he came down. And I said "she's been
5 kidnapped, here's a note," whatever. And I was
6 panicking, you know.

"Whatever"

And...

16 officer came up. And I remember thinking
17 because it said somewhere in the note, if you do
18 that, if you call somebody, that's not good.
19 Blah, blah, blah. And I just remembered

"Blah, blah, blah?"

Those 2 phrases are so dismissive. She's talking about finding a ransom note for her daughter, and has an attitude of "whatever," and "blah, blah, blah?????"

So agree with your post. I think her choice of words and her demeanor throughout this whole thing speaks for her guilt. I stand with my original theory that PR found JR molestig JBR and the rest happened.

 

[Mama2JML]

So someone is being less then truthful?

I didn't draw that conclusion from the interview excerpts posted. I am confused by your assessment. Care to elaborate?

 

[questfortrue]

:floorlaugh: I was reading old threads (is it this one?) and saw this running eggchange!!!

Wow! From just a few lines penned in a Christmas card the intruder was able to replicate Patsy's handwriting in his 3 page missive?

Eggceptional!!!!!

:lol:
All I know is LS gave AH a freebie 'n said the intruder wrote the note before he killed her && PP said it took the intruder months to learn how to copy PR's handwriting. All these discrepancies just eggacerbate my confusion! Idk.

 

[bettybaby00]

I didn't draw that conclusion from the interview excerpts posted. I am confused by your assessment. Care to elaborate?

Well I'm drawing that conclusion. You posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama2JML
Lou Smit, under oath, in Wolf v. Ramsey (01.09.02):

"Lou Smit: There are animal hairs that are found. There is a supposed beaver hair that is on the duct tape. There are also animal hairs found on her hand.

Lin Wood: On JonBenet's hand?

Smit: On JonBenet's hand.

Wood: Sourced to any item in the house or any individual in the house?

Smit: Sourced to no animal in the house or any item in the house.

Wood: Any effort made to try to ascertain whether there was any beaver hair or other type of animal hairs in the house since the initial days of investigation by the Boulder Police Department?

Smit: Yes. When we were at the Ramsey residence in the summer of 1997, Detective Ainsworth did actually take tape and taped the floors and all of the closets of the Ramsey home to see if there was any source in the closets of any type of animal hair, and he found none. Also the animal hairs were dark in color, brown and dark in color.

Wood: These were not white animal hairs?

Smit: These were not white animal hairs. This is not also generally known to the public."

Unless I'm reading this wrong, Smit, under oath, is stating that "no animal hairs can be sourced to the house." This is "ascertained" by the video taken by Det. A.

Yet there is testimony by PR about the various fur items she and John owned.

PRs statements appear to contradict what Smit is testifying to, as do Det. Ts.

Without the benefit of a subpoena or warrant to compare the Rs fur clothing/accessories to what was found on JRB, I think stating something like this as fact is misleading, and it could certainly be characterized as less then truthful.

Just the way I see it.