Texas school district, community at odds over student tracking badges

[Pandora]

I admit I lost a kid on Thursday. He came to class without a book for sustained silent reading, so I gave him a pass to the library and told him not to come back w/o a book. He came back without a book. I asked him why he had no book, and he told me the librarian wouldn't let him check anything out b/c he had a book overdue. I checked with the person on staff (music teacher--budget cuts have eliminated our full-time librarian position). He was not denied a book for any reason; the kid never went to the library. Where was he? I'll never know. He is no longer permitted to leave my room for any reason. I called his mom Thursday afternoon to explain the situation and the dangers. (He is a VERY small seventh grader in a building of grades 7-12. Plus, we had a bomb threat just last week.) In the event of an emergency situation, he SHOULD have gone with the library staff for safety, but he wasn't there. This kid needs to be chipped--even though I HATE the idea.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

More BIG BROTHER!
When will it end???

I'm against this. 100%

JMO

 

[Nova]

More BIG BROTHER!
When will it end???

I'm against this. 100%

JMO

Overreact much?

Linda has articulated fair constitutional concerns, but jumping to Orwell is silly. We already EXPECT schools to keep track of our children; children don't have a constitutional right to freedom of movement during school hours.

I.D. badges are just a tool.

 

[Nova]

How about simply taking roll and requiring students to sign in if they're late? You know.... The way it's been done since the beginning of public education and the way it's still done everywhere else.


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Taking roll manually can't tell a teacher whether a student is absent for the day or merely absent from that class. Coordinating manual records is time consuming, and expensive (if staff must be hired to compare daily attendance with classroom appearances).

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Overreact much?

Linda has articulated fair constitutional concerns, but jumping to Orwell is silly. We already EXPECT schools to keep track of our children; children don't have a constitutional right to freedom of movement during school hours.

I.D. badges are just a tool.

I don't find it overreacting or silly NOVA.
I find it infringing.

You don't have to agree with me.

Scroll on past my posts of you find then silly.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Taking roll manually can't tell a teacher whether a student is absent for the day or merely absent from that class. Coordinating manual records is time consuming, and expensive (if staff must be hired to compare daily attendance with classroom appearances).

It's manually taken by the teacher then it's input by that teacher in the school's computer system in our school district.

If there is a discrepancy, there is an alert.

Takes minutes.

They already have computers.

No extra money. No extra time really.

 

[Nova]

I don't find it overreacting or silly NOVA.
I find it infringing.

You don't have to agree with me.

Scroll on past my posts of you find then silly.

Sorry, but that's not how a public discussion. One doesn't get a pass for reacting emotionally rather than thinking carefully about one's response.

If teachers in your system have to manually input their rolls into the school's computer system every hour, that does indeed take up a lot of time. Time that might better be spend on education.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Sorry, but that's not how a public discussion. One doesn't get a pass for reacting emotionally rather than thinking carefully about one's response.

If teachers in your system have to manually input their rolls into the school's computer system every hour, that does indeed take up a lot of time. Time that might better be spend on education.

Sorry, but you are wrong.
It does not.

It takes less than 1 second to click the absent box next to a child's name.

So if 5 kids are out, total time to update the system is no more than 5 seconds.

If there is an issue, the computer automatically alerts the attendance clerk/secretary at the front desk.

By the way, our school system has been #1 in the state for the past 7 years. There is A LOT of educating going on in those classrooms.

 

[mysterygirl]

How about simply taking roll and requiring students to sign in if they're late? You know.... The way it's been done since the beginning of public education and the way it's still done everywhere else.


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Fascinating...this system of which you speak.

 

[gitana1]

OK...I'm going to show my ignorance here (isn't it refreshing to admit that right up front??)...why would someone have an issue with this? Unless you felt that it put some harmful radioactive waves into your child, or you were concerned that your school employed pedophiles who could use it to their advantage?

I saw a snippet of a father on TV saying that it violated his child's religious freedom. That was all the news played, so I have no idea what he's talking about.

Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this for me.

The religious freedom thing has to do with an idea in fundamentalist circles that sprung up in the 70's/80's that the tribulation period would involve the anti-christ tracking people with bar codes or marking them with barcodes as the mark of the beast. Now, micro chips is the thought:
[video=youtube;l39XsMcyvgA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l39XsMcyvgA&feature=related[/video]

A Distant Thunder [7] - YouTube
(Minute 6:59 for the bar code scene).

A Distant Thunder [8] - YouTube
(Minute 5:00 on for more bar code scenes).

I'd have a huge problem with it. It's a blatant invasion of privacy.

Based on what I've read, yes schools do employ pedophiles.

IMO it's like using the argument if you have nothing to hide and have done nothing wrong what's the big deal if the police search your house without a warrant.

The government can't keep track of the pedophiles they keep putting back on the street, yet want to track our children for money?

It's wrong, wrong, wrong...

I don't know if this is true or not...but I've read in the news articles that for 30 dollars anyone can file a Freedom Of Information Act request and receive the name of every child and their address in the school district.

Here is one of many news articles stating for 30 bucks anyone can get any child's name and address in the district.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/october122012/student-microchips.php

Ok, so you're saying that a pedophile who is employed by a school could:
1. Pay money and make a FOIA demand for school kids home addresses.
2. Hack into the wrist band tracking system.
3. Figure out via the hacking, whether a child was at school or absent on a particular day.
4. Go to the home of the absent child, peer in and if the child is there without a parent or sitter, break in and molest the kid?

Well, I suppose that could happen. I hadn't thought of that.

Otherwise, I'm hard pressed to see why having an ID badge that tracks the whereabouts of school kids while on campus only, is a violation of constitutional rights. They are already tracked while in the school, just visually.

And, if a pedophile works at the school, and was a master hacker (or not), they could simply determine which kids failed to show up that day by looking at the attendance rolls and suddenly fake an illness and show up at the absent kids' homes. A tracking device would not be needed for that to happen.

It may be overkill, though. I can't see how it would help battle truancy. Kids could just stuff it in their locker. Seems like a waste of money.

However, I can see how a lot of parents would like such a device. Because in cases like Kyron Horman's, in which he was supposedly already at school, it could be determined if that was the case and if so, where. Or cases of school shootings and multiple victims; to locate the victims and survivors remotely. It could also be used in case of natural disaster like an earthquake or hurricane/tornado, to find out where all the kids are if they get separated.

I don't see a reason to get up in arms about this at all. I don;t see the problem. Unless there is fear stemming from those apocalyptic visions of bar code scanning. But if it freaks certain parents out, oh well, let them opt out. What's the harm?

 

[Nova]

Sorry, but you are wrong.
It does not.

It takes less than 1 second to click the absent box next to a child's name.

So if 5 kids are out, total time to update the system is no more than 5 seconds.

If there is an issue, the computer automatically alerts the attendance clerk/secretary at the front desk.

By the way, our school system has been #1 in the state for the past 7 years. There is A LOT of educating going on in those classrooms.

Apparently, you've never taken roll. In theory, at least, i.d. badges linked to a central computer could make the entire exercise unnecessary.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Apparently, you've never taken roll. In theory, at least, i.d. badges linked to a central computer could make the entire exercise unnecessary.

Actually I have. So I'm not sure what you think is apparent.

I've explained how we do it in our school system.
It's not complicated or time consuming.

And our children's info is not out there where a predator can get it.

Unless you know more about our system than I do, I think I made my point.

 

[Donjeta]

Apparently, you've never taken roll. In theory, at least, i.d. badges linked to a central computer could make the entire exercise unnecessary.

I would like the exercise to continue anyhow. If they fall out of the habit of checking who all is there and just blindly trust that the computer bleeps if there is a problem it might take longer to notice a missing child who is not surgically attached to his badge. Neither system is foolproof but the two systems used together might reduce the margin for error.

 

[Nova]

Actually I have. So I'm not sure what you think is apparent.

I've explained how we do it in our school system.
It's not complicated or time consuming.

And our children's info is not out there where a predator can get it.

Unless you know more about our system than I do, I think I made my point.

Not really. The point isn't exclusive to "your" system. You suggested that roll is merely a matter of checking off who is absent, but in fact the roll has to be called (or the teacher has to scan the room in the case of assigned seating) to determine who is missing. There's more to taking roll than you suggested.

But since you bring it up again, I'm still waiting for an explanation of how this system is going to give predators information they can't get with their own two eyes.

 

[Holmes_S]

Sorry, but that's not how a public discussion. One doesn't get a pass for reacting emotionally rather than thinking carefully about one's response.

If teachers in your system have to manually input their rolls into the school's computer system every hour, that does indeed take up a lot of time. Time that might better be spend on education.

Isn't Palm Springs a Republican bastion? Shouldn't you be for smaller government with no Big Brother? Let the teacher just click the absent box for crying out loud.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Not really. The point isn't exclusive to "your" system. You suggested that roll is merely a matter of checking off who is absent, but in fact the roll has to be called (or the teacher has to scan the room in the case of assigned seating) to determine who is missing. There's more to taking roll than you suggested.

But since you bring it up again, I'm still waiting for an explanation of how this system is going to give predators information they can't get with their own two eyes.

There will be information transmitted on every student all the time.
Can predators see every student all the time with their own two eyes?
No.

 

[Nova]

Isn't Palm Springs a Republican bastion? Shouldn't you be for smaller government with no Big Brother? Let the teacher just click the absent box for crying out loud.

Actually, no. Although Palm Springs sits in the middle of a Republican county, the city itself is about 50% gay. We've had liberal, gay mayors ever since I moved here. (But I don't exactly base my vote on communal consensus anyway.)

I don't agree that computerized i.d. tags are necessarily "Big Brother", perhaps because, as I said above, I've worked at offices where I was required to wear one. It's really not that big a deal.

Despite the arguments above, marking a student absent from one class doesn't automatically tell the teacher or the school whether the student was ever on the premises to begin with. An i.d. tag system would do so.

And, sure, some kids will try flushing their tags down the toilet or something, but that, too, will show up on the computer system and they can be corrected accordingly.

Jeeze, Louise, people! What's the big deal? If you think armed commandos of 2nd graders are going to defend our freedom by overthrowing the federal government, you are entirely divorced from reality.

 

[Nova]

There will be information transmitted on every student all the time.
Can predators see every student all the time with their own two eyes?
No.

It's seriously time to step away from the True Crime websites.

It's absurd to keep insisting a sexual predator is going to be more incited by a blip on a computer screen than by the real, flesh-and-blood children he can see with the naked eye.

A properly designed system might actually save children from sexual predators because, at least during school hours, it should alert if they are taken off campus or into the "boiler room" or whatever it is you people are imagining a predator is going to do.

 

[Donjeta]

Not really. The point isn't exclusive to "your" system. You suggested that roll is merely a matter of checking off who is absent, but in fact the roll has to be called (or the teacher has to scan the room in the case of assigned seating) to determine who is missing. There's more to taking roll than you suggested.

But since you bring it up again, I'm still waiting for an explanation of how this system is going to give predators information they can't get with their own two eyes.

I should think it's obvious. Provided that the predator has access to the information, he gets information about the whereabouts of a whole bunch of students all over the school at a glance, and doesn't have to prowl the corridors to get it.

His own two eyes can only be at one location at any one time.

Think Argus Filch and the Marauder's Map in Harry Potter.

 

[Donjeta]

It's seriously time to step away from the True Crime websites.

It's absurd to keep insisting a sexual predator is going to be more incited by a blip on a computer screen than by the real, flesh-and-blood children he can see with the naked eye.

A properly designed system might actually save children from sexual predators because, at least during school hours, it should alert if they are taken off campus or into the "boiler room" or whatever it is you people are imagining a predator is going to do.

With all due respect, discussion is more fruitful if one responds to claims that have been made by the other posters. Of course it is absurd to suggest that he's excited by a blip on the computer screen more than seeing flesh and blood children. I think this is why no one is suggesting that here. It's not a source of sexual gratification, but it could be a tool for detecting children who are wandering alone in a vulnerable position and getting to them.

As for catching predators dragging kids into the boiler room, it would probably take them very little time to take the badge off the child before going into the boiler room.

JMO, they need to keep a strict log of everyone who accesses the data about the students whereabouts.